Cambridge Analytica 2 - ICO Rides Forth

[Paul Calf]

Nah you're just indulging the usual conspiracy theories and blame shifting by conjuring up a handful of dodgy characters who somehow tricked us into voting remain using their voodoo mind control skills whilst conveniently ignoring THE VAST OVERWHELMING WEIGHT of the political, institutional, banking, corporate and cultural elites were pushing us at every step to vote remain using relentless scare tactics, doom mongering and often actual threats.

[jobotic]

These people are:

The British Government, The Prime Minister, The Conservative Party, 75% of MPs, 16 Local government authorities, the SNP, the Greens, Sinn Fein, Liberal Democrats, Plaid Cymru, George Osborne, Nick Clegg, Tony Blair, John Major, Ken Clarke, Peter Mandelson, Most university chancellors and presidents, Barack Obama, George Soros, Michael Bloomberg, Warren Buffet, Jacob Rothschild, Alan Sugar, Richard Branson, Lord Sainsbury, Li Ka Shing, Bill Gates, the EU, Mario Draghi, François Hollande, Christine Lagarde, Emmanuel Macron, Mariano Rajoy, Angela Merkel, Kofi Annan, Justin Trudeau, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, Malcolm Turnbull, Xi Jinping, the IMF, the ECB, G7, G20, WTO, World Bank, NATO, the CBI, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, Barclays, HSBC, GlaxoSmithCline, Vodaphone, Unilever, ASDA, BT, Ford, Marks & Spencer, Shell, The Daily Mirror, Daily Record, FT, The Economist, Guardian, Observer, The Independent, Evening Standard, Mail on Sunday, New Statesman, The Scotsman, The Times, Sunday Mirror, The Herald, and almost all major celebrities, comedians, musicians, artists, writers, directors and sportsman.

Ha ha! The Mail on Sunday counts but not the Daily Mail. You've got me with New Statesman though, definitely trumps The Sun.

Why shouldn't the companies above say what they plan to do regarding Brexit? were they subject to purdah or something? Why don't you just include the 48% too?

Waste of time.

[marquis_de_sad]

It should be possible to say the main weight of the establishment was behind Remain without also denying that an establishment minority was behind Leave.

[biggytitbo]

You seemed kind of surprised and offended there was anyone on the leave side, despite the fact they represent the majority of the voters. An odd attitude. Of course there were some rich and influential people on the leave side, but they were vastly outnumbered by the weight of power and influence on the remain side.

[jobotic]

You seemed kind of surprised and offended there was anyone on the leave side, despite the fact they represent the majority of the voters. An odd attitude. Of course there were some rich and influential people on the leave side, but they were vastly outnumbered by the weight of power and influence on the remain side.

The hypocrisy. I was responding to you and your milvertonesque pretence that the leave side are all good working-class democracy lovers and remainers are all part of the sinister elite. In a thread about the snide criminal and very much anti-democratic behaviour of Cummings and all. Unbelievable.

Don't worry I'm done.

[biggytitbo]

The hypocrisy. I was responding to you and your milvertonesque pretence that the leave side are all good working-class democracy lovers and remainers are all part of the sinister elite. In a thread about the snide criminal and very much anti-democratic behaviour of Cummings and all. Unbelievable.

Don't worry I'm done.

I did nothing of the kind. I am pointing out a fact to you that you seem unwilling to accept, that the vast majority of the political and financial elites were advocating remain. Which somewhat undermines the conspiracy theory that a few rich arseholes somehow fixed the result for leave. Indeed if there was actually a level playing field leave would have won by more. As the LRB piece earlier points out, all this is just blame shifting to avoid -

Certainly we should try to understand how 'Brexit and Trump are entwined,' but that requires sociological and economic analysis: the process won't be as simple (or as exciting) as identifying a secret control room.

Which the groups most zealously in favour of remain want to avoid at all costs, because its those same people that have caused most of the miserable social and economic conditions that force so many to want to rebel against them.

[Buelligan]

I did nothing of the kind. I am pointing out a fact to you that you seem unwilling to accept, that the vast majority of the political and financial elites were advocating remain. Which somewhat undermines the conspiracy theory that a few rich arseholes somehow fixed the result for leave.

Actually, it doesn't.  It only takes one rich arsehole to act as paymaster and I think there was more than one rich arsehole available, with cheque book at the ready.  If you do get time to listen to that testimony, prick up your ears when they talk about Eldon Insurance and data that they hold on their customers.

[jobotic]

I did nothing of the kind. I am pointing out a fact to you that you seem unwilling to accept, that the vast majority of the political and financial elites were advocating remain. Which somewhat undermines the conspiracy theory that a few rich arseholes somehow fixed the result for leave. Indeed if there was actually a level playing field leave would have won by more. As the LRB piece earlier points out, all this is just blame shifting to avoid -

Which the groups most zealously in favour of remain want to avoid at all costs, because its those same people that have caused most of the miserable social and economic conditions that force so many to want to rebel against them.

Why would I want to avoid that? Even if true Brexit will impoverish these people, as it will all of us who aren't sickenly wealthy.

But fuck em eh? Who cares?

[Buelligan]

Documents shared by Cambridge Analytica whistleblower Christopher Wylie spell out how parent company SCL Group tried to influence elections worldwide.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-43581892

(Sorry, no time, have to go to workies).

[Zetetic]

they were vastly outnumbered by the weight of power and influence on the remain side.

Clearly not. (But the question of how so many people have been brought to vote against their own interests - as is only becoming every more clear - in the context of overwhelming opposition by much of the rich and powerful is probably best served by the 'Brexit' thread.)

Anyway, yes, focusing on CA etc. as grounds for why the referendum or its result are bad is a distraction as regards understanding either of those.

Focusing on CA isn't bad for highlighting criminal behaviour per se, highlighting tendencies towards criminal behaviour amongst certain people, and highlighting wider issues about the collection and use of information.

[Zetetic]

Thought this was a decent summary of what technical task CA was actually undertaking in the US election:
https://theconversation.com/how-cambridge-analyticas-facebook-targeting-model-really-worked-according-to-the-person-who-built-it-94078

(And notably this work seems to depend in part on work based on the data collected illegally - which undermines the "they didn't even use the data in the election" drone.)

[Buelligan]

I wonder if anyone thinks that undermining trust in mainstream media sources could be part of the endgame.  Most people don't spend a huge amount of time thinking about politics or who runs things and how they run them, they generally accept the consensus and trust the media to give them a fair (balanced) precis of what's going on. 

If these vast swathes of citizens, voters, can be extracted and isolated, they can be influenced, even controlled.  The first logical step is to make them reject the sources of information that they have trusted and relied upon in the past.  After that, with the right stimulus, anything is possible.

[Paul Calf]

I wonder if anyone thinks that undermining trust in mainstream media sources could be part of the endgame.  Most people don't spend a huge amount of time thinking about politics or who runs things and how they run them, they generally accept the consensus and trust the media to give them a fair (balanced) precis of what's going on. 

If these vast swathes of citizens, voters, can be extracted and isolated, they can be influenced, even controlled.  The first logical step is to make them reject the sources of information that they have trusted and relied upon in the past.  After that, with the right stimulus, anything is possible.

Terrified of the crumbling status quo, the wealthy and powerful turn to the authoritarian right to keep order and let them keep their money. It's not like we haven't seen this before.

[Buelligan]

More interesting revelations as Brittany Kaiser, ex Cambridge Analytica employee, testifies to the parliamentary committee...

Brittany Kaiser said Mr Banks asked the consultancy firm for a joint strategy for Leave.EU, UKIP and Eldon Insurance.

Ms Kaiser said CA "took receipt" of UKIP's membership data as part of this.

Ms Kaiser said she saw data from Eldon Insurance - which is owned by Mr Banks and carries out claims for Go Skippy - used by the Leave.EU with her "own eyes".

She said that as Leave.EU had little data when they first met, CA "took receipt" of UKIP's membership and survey data to create a model for Leave.EU communications.

And recordings of Andy Wigmore (a director of Arron Banks' Eldon Insurance Company and also chief of Leave.EU) and Nigel Oakes (Chief Executive of Cambridge Analytica's parent company, SCL Group and Behavioural Dynamics Institute) chatting to university lecturer, Emma Briant, about Trump, Leave and the Nazis

Meanwhile, Leave.EU's Andy Wigmore has been recorded appearing to compare the tactics it used to keep immigration at the top of the referendum debate to the "clever" techniques of the Nazis.

Mr Wigmore said "it was a conversation not a statement of facts".

He is also heard discussing contacts with Cambridge Analytica.

Mr Wigmore was talking to university lecturer Emma Briant for an upcoming book on the Trump campaign.

He told Ms Briant "the only way" Leave.EU would be successful was to "follow the Trump doctrine".

Mr Wigmore admitted that campaigners were concerned they would be blamed for creating "a wave of hatred and racism".

He told Ms Briant: "The propaganda machine of the Nazis, for instance - you take away all the hideous horror and that kind of stuff, it was very clever, the way they managed to do what they did.

"In its pure marketing sense, you can see the logic of what they were saying, why they were saying it, and how they presented things, and the imagery.

Ms Briant also spoke to the chief executive of Cambridge Analytica's parent company SCL Group, Nigel Oakes.

Mr Oakes told her that Mr Trump "leveraged an artificial enemy" in the shape of the Muslims.

"Hitler attacked the Jews. He didn't have a problem with the Jews at all, but the people didn't like the Jews and so he just leveraged an artificial enemy... that's exactly what Trump did. He leveraged Muslims,"

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43793546

[Norton Canes]

Oh come on we've all leveraged a Muslim at some point haven't we?

[Buelligan]

Being serious, I'd be interested to know exactly how much leveraging went on, where the line is drawn between fake news, voter manipulation, twisting the truth, false flags and outright lying to the democratically elected governments and people of the countries you are elected to serve. 

[Gulftastic]

Are we sure Brittany Kaiser is a real person? As soon as I heard the name I recognised it as the name of the lass who's party Coop and Remer gate crash at the start of 'Baseketball'.

[Buelligan]

Getting paranoid now.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-23252638