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March 28, 2024, 05:48:09 PM

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Avengers: Infinity War - Purple Veiny Helmet Man Attacks!!!

Started by Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth, March 22, 2018, 06:59:29 PM

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Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

This is out in just over a month, so it's probably time for it to get a thread of its own.

As much as I enjoy the Disney's Marvel's Cinematic Universe synergistic entertainment franchise conglomerate, I have found my enthusiasm waning a little over the past few years. There have been highpoints, but there is a certain feeling of it all getting a bit routine. This is the first one since the first Avengers* (one of the best nights out at the cinema I've ever enjoyed) that actually feels like an event. The culmination of ten years worth of built up plot threads (or seven years, since the infinity stones were first introduced). It's also the first one that feels like it could be a genuine risk - unlike Guardians of the Galaxy, which some folk were sure would flop because a talking tree was just too weird (apparently Lord of the Rings never happened). Even with it being split into two parts, just how can one story juggle so many characters?

Let us all speculate wildly.


* not to be confused with Captain America: The First Avenger.

greenman

The Russo's have thus far I'd say shown pretty good ability to have stories with a lot of characters involved that do still have a decent focus on a few lead roles(relative to Whedon in Ultron especially). I wonder whether that's going to be the case here with some characters  focused on it part 1 and others in part 2?

samadriel

Yeah, I saw a video on YT speculate that all the big stars with cosmic powers will be killed off in Infinity War, and the next one will be Hawkeye, Ant-Man and Rocket Raccoon saving the universe because they're the only ones left to do it. That'd be a bit of fun.

The trailer shots of Wakanda worry me a bit, because I have a severe allergy to large CGI armies clashing, but the Russos haven't let me down yet, so we'll see.

colacentral

It's fairly obvious from the trailers what the general format of this one will be, with three distinct battle sections (New York - red planet - Wakanda) and some small bits in between, and small groups of characters at each location. What I've read from the Russos about which characters take the lead in this one is very encouraging, and I think they'll follow the same format of Civil War where they gave side characters like Spider-Man and Ant-Man short but memorable highlight moments.

I am genuinely excited for this in a way I haven't been since maybe Phantom Menace, though I'm more interested in seeing how it all gets resolved next year in Avengers 4. It's obvious that Ant-Man and Captain Marvel will be playing a big part in it.

So far I've been predicting Iron Man as the big permanent death in this, but now I think it's going to be Captain America, with Iron Man / Downey Jr retiring at the end of next year's one. Though it's not outside the realm of possibility that they both die. And I expect a few shite side characters might be sacrificed to up the kill count, maybe Black Widow to give Hulk a little moment. Both Nebula and Drax must have pretty short odds to die too. It still being a massive Disney film intended for kids leaves me worried that they could chicken out and let everyone down with the character death count though.

colacentral

Quote from: samadriel on March 23, 2018, 07:04:48 AM
Yeah, I saw a video on YT speculate that all the big stars with cosmic powers will be killed off in Infinity War, and the next one will be Hawkeye, Ant-Man and Rocket Raccoon saving the universe because they're the only ones left to do it. That'd be a bit of fun.

Ant-Man, Hawkeye and Howard the Duck for Avengers 4.

Obel

Apparently Avengers 3 is a heist film told from the perspective of Thanos, he basically acts as the main character. Actually a really good idea if true. I'm burnt out on superhero movies these days but I do want to see how this story gets wrapped up, Thanos is completely undeveloped at this point.

greenman

Quote from: Obel on March 23, 2018, 08:49:14 AM
Apparently Avengers 3 is a heist film told from the perspective of Thanos, he basically acts as the main character. Actually a really good idea if true. I'm burnt out on superhero movies these days but I do want to see how this story gets wrapped up, Thanos is completely undeveloped at this point.

Honestly I found the worst period for burn out was earlier in this decade were everything seemed to become so similar, the Russo's and James Gun though I think did freshen things up a lot although stuff like Doc Strange and Black Panther does still feel very samey.

WHat they do after these two Avengers films to me seems to be the main problem they face, potentially a point where a lot of viewers might think its a good time to get off and likely also a natural peak ion terms of scale. There was talk of a Black Widow film wasn't there(so unless she's killed unless that's a flashback) and I could see that being more of a For Your Eyes Only style scaling back.

Mister Six

Quote from: greenman on March 23, 2018, 09:03:45 AM
Honestly I found the worst period for burn out was earlier in this decade were everything seemed to become so similar, the Russo's and James Gun though I think did freshen things up a lot although stuff like Doc Strange and Black Panther does still feel very samey.

Yeah, since 2013 I'd say there's only been one stinker (Avengers 2) even if Doctor Strange and Ant-Man were underwhelming. Still, I am also feeling weary of the franchise, even though the quality of the films is higher than it's ever been.

They do seem to have been making an effort to differentiate things visually and tonally since then, with Strange and Ant-Man being hooked around their own visual gimmicks and the GotG films being massively different in visuals and tone from, say, the Captain America films (although Thor 3 felt like it was mining the GotG format somewhat). Even Black Panther had the Afrofuturism thing going on, which was interesting.

But despite the aesthetic changes, the films still fit the action - exposition - action - exposition - action format. It would be nice if Marvel had the balls to break out of that - make the Black Widow movie a stripped-down spy thriller, make a superhero road movie, a superhero Wagnerian opera, a superhero romance (for all the talk, Ant-Man had none of the trappings of a heist movie, so they blew that one).

They sort of had this in the beginning - Thor was basically a low-stakes rom-com; Hulk a horror/monster movie - so maybe they could again.

Unfortunately the next few films appear to be Ant-Man and the Wasp (surely Marvel's least-essential sequel), Captain Marvel (she's a superhero! But also a white woman - not sure if there's a USP beyond that) and sequels to Avengers, Spider-Man and GotG.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I just realised the thread sub title should have been "Purple Veiny Helmet Man Rises!!!"

Dr Rock

Quote from: Mister Six on March 23, 2018, 12:39:08 PM
Yeah, since 2013 I'd say there's only been one stinker (Avengers 2)

Don't see how it's a stinker. Going to watch it for the third time now - I agree it not as awesome as Avengers, but it's still very good. What are the flaws?

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: colacentral on March 23, 2018, 07:34:27 AMSo far I've been predicting Iron Man as the big permanent death in this, but now I think it's going to be Captain America, with Iron Man / Downey Jr retiring at the end of next year's one.
I've long suspected they'll knock off ol' Captain Rogers with Sgt Barnes taking on the mantle of Captain America, which will probably be the excuse they need to retire Iron Man. And then making way for Reed Richards to take on the "insufferable genius" role in future films, perhaps (I can't remember if Marvel have the rights to the F4 back or not, sorry).

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

As the most popular and longest running character in the whole MCU, Tony's death would probably resonate most strongly with audiences. Plus, Downey Jr. isn't getting any younger (although it's not necessarily a physically demanding role, given he can be entirely CGI for the action scenes).

Doctor Strange is already quite similar to Tony Stark, albeit less likeable. I'm not sure if that last part is by design, or due to Cummerbund Bandersnatch's slightly reptilian quality.

Mango Chimes

I don't know the comics, and I understand Bucky becomes Cap there, but he's such a nothing character in the films I think that'd be a mad thing to do. He's like a love interest who doesn't exist except in relation to the protagonist, and there's surely not space in IW to build him up as enough of his own thing.

I don't have any strong bets for the IW death list, but I think it's interesting to think of who they can't kill. T'Challa can't die, nor Spider-Man nor Ant-Man, and I think Quill is safe too. Else, all the Phase One guys could go, Phase Two newbs Falcon, Wanda and Vision are inessential, as are the rest of the Guardians.

If I was taking a punt on a surprise big hitter biting it, I'd go Stephen Strange – he's such a like-for-like of Tony, he's kind of too obvious a successor, and as a white British man with a dodgy accent he's no loss for a MCU wanting to increase its diversity. As an established lead with only one film and a cameo behind him, he's quite a good choice for a Whedony surprise kill. And if you need a Sorceror Supreme to pick up the magic side of the MCU, take on Mordo etc., Wanda's sat right there without much else to do (and if anything, with slightly more interesting motivation after her brother and now possibly her boyfriend too are bumped off).

Mango Chimes

Quote from: Mister Six on March 23, 2018, 12:39:08 PMCaptain Marvel (she's a superhero! But also a white woman - not sure if there's a USP beyond that)

Period film too, I think, set in the 90s. And I wouldn't be hugely surprised if it was an undercover launch for Ms Marvel.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: Mango Chimes on March 23, 2018, 11:47:00 PM
I don't know the comics, and I understand Bucky becomes Cap there, but he's such a nothing character in the films I think that'd be a mad thing to do. He's like a love interest who doesn't exist except in relation to the protagonist, and there's surely not space in IW to build him up as enough of his own thing
Can't really think why they'd keep him around in both Captain America sequels and that bit at the end of Black Panther unless they were going to do something with him. And I have a (totally without evidence) suspicion Evans would be happy to sack off the part once his contract is up.

Also, it's a lot easier to keep the Stark character as an occasional cameo character despite the actor getting older because it's all about the brain.

Though maybe they'll kill the pair of them off, just to get us told. Perhaps now they've got Spider-Man back, they feel they can make him the leader of the pack?

newbridge

Heard that in the last 5 minute of this the Silver Surfer appears and fucks everybody up.







(Not really, but that would be great.)

Mango Chimes

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on March 24, 2018, 12:00:55 AM
Can't really think why they'd keep him around in both Captain America sequels and that bit at the end of Black Panther unless they were going to do something with him. And I have a (totally without evidence) suspicion Evans would be happy to sack off the part once his contract is up.

Oh, I agree on both. I just personally don't get anything from Winter Soldier than a void. In Cap 2, he whipped his mask off and I didn't recognise who he was. In his appearances since, he's just a moody expression and lank hair. Evans has done an astounding job making Cap a captivating (CAPtivating) character, and the thought of replacing such a warm charisma beacon with a frown drawn on a brown paper bag would baffle me.

newbridge

I like the guy who plays Bucky, but even if they make him the new CA I doubt he remains in a major role. It seems like Captain America will probably be the big death in Infinity War, and Tony Stark will retire from action. (They won't kill Stark because it's too easy to bring in RDJr. to punch-up scenes in later movies.)

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: newbridge on March 24, 2018, 12:18:11 AM
I like the guy who plays Bucky, but even if they make him the new CA I doubt he remains in a major role. It seems like Captain America will probably be the big death in Infinity War, and Tony Stark will retire from action. (They won't kill Stark because it's too easy to bring in RDJr. to punch-up scenes in later movies.)
Aye, you can imagine they'll use Spider-Man and Black Panther as the focus for some kind of "New Avengers" type thing, with Dr Strange* and AN Others such as Captain Marvel.

*who I root for because I work with Benedict Wong's cousin, so that's as close to being in a film as I'll ever get.

biggytitbo


Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: Mango Chimes on March 23, 2018, 11:47:00 PM
If I was taking a punt on a surprise big hitter biting it, I'd go Stephen Strange ... if you need a Sorceror Supreme to pick up the magic side of the MCU, take on Mordo
It'd be a shame not to see more trippy magic shenanigans and Chiwetel Ejiofor could certainly carry a film, but Mordo is even less developed than Bucky. Also, he's a baddy now.

Maybe Bucky could die defending Iron Man as a redemptive act for killing his parents. Conversely, Tony could die saving Bucky as an act of forgiveness.

With The Wasp getting equal billing in the Ant-Man sequel, I suppose they could get rid of Paul Rudd in Infinity War 2 and leave her to go solo. Rudd's just too delightful to kill off though.

Quote from: Mango Chimes on March 23, 2018, 11:50:40 PM
I wouldn't be hugely surprised if it was an undercover launch for Ms Marvel.
It is Ms Marvel. Brie Larson is the lead.

Mango Chimes

Sorry, I mean modern-day teenage Pakistani-American Muslim Ms Marvel.

colacentral

The reason I don't think Stark will die is that it seems too sadistic - he's been portrayed as this tortured soul, worried about being the cause of another disaster, so to have him die in failure would be a flat ending to his arc and possibly come across as a cruel treatment of a beloved character.

I don't think Bucky will become a new Captain America because the guy really doesn't have any charisma, which worked when he was playing a mindless terminator character but wouldn't work as a major protagonist. I think it's again far more likely that he also retires after Captain America's death. His character is just taking up space at this point.

Custard

Does it really matter if anyone dies? This is an extended superhero universe, with all manner of crazy shit going on. They could kill off anyone, and easily bring them back as and when they feel like it

THAT SAID, I reckon Caps, Bucky, Spider-Man's annoying mate, and Eyepatch Jackson

colacentral

I can see Thor doing a Doctor Who and becoming female Thor somehow.

surreal

My best guess for this is that it will end with Thanos snapping his fingers and wiping out half the universe.  Ant-Man can disappear into the quantum realms and travel through time, as can Doctor Strange / Wong, so Avengers 4 would be a period piece going back to various points and re-assembling the team to defeat Thanos.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: colacentral on March 24, 2018, 12:49:49 AMI don't think Bucky will become a new Captain America because the guy really doesn't have any charisma, which worked when he was playing a mindless terminator character but wouldn't work as a major protagonist. I think it's again far more likely that he also retires after Captain America's death. His character is just taking up space at this point.
I was thinking it would be more like, Rogers dies at end of IW1, Bucky takes on the uniform/shield for the second one and that's that*. More a supporting character than a protagonist.

*unless they go with the aforementioned "Dr Strange reverses time to put everything back together angle". Maybe a nice ending there is that Doc S prevents Cap from being frozen in the first place, so he can grow old with Peggy. Aww.

Dr Rock

No predictions for this, but I rewatched Avengers 2, and it's awesome.

Mister Six

Quote from: Dr Rock on March 23, 2018, 07:03:32 PM
Don't see how it's a stinker. Going to watch it for the third time now - I agree it not as awesome as Avengers, but it's still very good. What are the flaws?

Haven't seen it since it was at the cinemas, but from what I remember:

* Too much pointless franchise maintenance (Thor's cave nonsense is the one that comes to mind but there was more IIRC);
* Another boring "goodies vs a horde of faceless pixels as loads of things explode" ending;
* Unfocused, meandering plot;
* Lack of logical emotional resolution (Tony creates the problem by giving life to an AI with alien tech, but redeems himself by... er... Giving life to an AI with alien tech);
* Lack of themes or anything going on under the surface (not a problem with the original because that had novelty on its side, but this felt too throwaway - they almost have something about children and legacy but it never really comes together).

Dr Rock

Quote from: Mister Six on March 24, 2018, 12:43:43 PM
Haven't seen it since it was at the cinemas, but from what I remember:

* Too much pointless franchise maintenance (Thor's cave nonsense is the one that comes to mind but there was more IIRC);

Nah, not too much, I think that was the main thing and it leads to Ragnorok. It didn't affect my enjoyment of the movie, Thor has seen a vision that worries him, fine.

* Another boring "goodies vs a horde of faceless pixels as loads of things explode" ending;

I'd take issue, watching it again, the action is super, and having it take place amongst civilians they are trying to protect and get to safety means it's not just super-beings trading blows. It's a fantastic action sequence, and the film has many.

* Unfocused, meandering plot;

It's not a traditional plot. It's a bit like the ESB of the movies, it takes its time, takes the story to unexpected places, but it's all enjoyable. I wasn't bored at any point.

* Lack of logical emotional resolution (Tony creates the problem by giving life to an AI with alien tech, but redeems himself by... er... Giving life to an AI with alien tech);

Creating The Vision is a team effort, and Ultron lays most of the groundwork. But yes, the story is that Tony's urge to protect the world from aliens gives us the villain, and the villain helps create that which will ultimately destroy him. But Ultron believes evolution is improvement, thus humanity must make way - his co-creation, The Vision, thinks humanity's faults are part of its charm, and is basically pro-life. The team do defeat a villain they created, that's true. The film is still a great watch, there's more to it than that main story, you have subplots like Banner's slow realization that there is nowhere safe from the Hulk, and that there can be no future with Black Widow. The pay-off, sad Hulk flying off to anywhere, nowhere, is very touching. I don't know how he goes from here to the Battle-Planet in Thor though.

* Lack of themes or anything going on under the surface (not a problem with the original because that had novelty on its side, but this felt too throwaway - they almost have something about children and legacy but it never really comes together).

I agree, the film doesn't have much to say, but it does have Iron Man repeatedly punching Hulk's face saying 'go to sleep, go to sleep'