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March 29, 2024, 12:34:59 AM

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Avengers: Infinity War - Purple Veiny Helmet Man Attacks!!!

Started by Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth, March 22, 2018, 06:59:29 PM

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mothman

Not all action movie deaths have to be heroic, and pre-ordained and foreshadowed. They can be sudden and tragic and unexpected and yes, even meaningless. I reckon we're gonna get both.

First off there'll be an unexpected eath that will both sertve to demoralise but ultimately also inspire the rest. They - could be more than one - will be significant, but maybe not one of the original first-tranche Avengers, or any of the Guardians (this latter I'm less confident about - read on). Even with the now-billion-dollar Black Panther franchise, I think they'll want to avoid it being someone like Falcon or Rhodes to avoid any suggestions of the "black guy always dies first" trope. Likewise it'll not be anyone female who's in a romantic relationship with another main character, to avoid the "Women In Refrigerators" accusation, so not Black Widow, or Gamora, or Pepper Potts (plus, Johansson/Saldana/Paltrow would never go for it and have the clout to refuse).

Instead I reckon they'll use it to take one or more of the second-tranche Avengers off the board, one who has perhaps way too much power so would otherwise be a significant counter to Thanos. Therefore, Scarlet Witch, Vision or especially Dr. Strange. My money's on him. The character's never exactly set the world alight before or after his movie realisation. And why not the Guardians? They only have a grand total of two movies under their belt, and none of the Avengers know who they are anyway. Sure the reverse is also true, but... if I had to say anybody, I'd say Nebula. Maybe Mantis.

As for the Big Damn Hero death, it'll be Cap. It feels more in keeping with his arc. He and Stark have both faced certain death before, but Cap genuinely did once sacrifice himself with no last-minute reprieve; apart form the fact that he didn't die, he was just frozen for 70 years. And so it feels rght: he's never really integrated into modern society, by sacrificing himself once again, this time to save not just his country but the world (stroke Galaxy, stroke Universe), it completes his arc nicely. That loss will affect Stark in such a way that he will pull back from being Iron Man, have a family with Pepper, perhaps to be the new Nick Fury as it were, but with the Iron Man mantle eventually passed on to somebody else (a son or daughter maybe). RDJ gets a nice little pension plan of occasionally having to put in a day or two in a suit in an office somewhere.

I;'m pretty good at predicting these things. Let's see what happens!

colacentral

Mister Six forgot to say: Quicksilver. Glad that cunt died at least. I couldn't take that accent any longer.

Dr Rock

Quote from: colacentral on March 24, 2018, 01:33:58 PM
Mister Six forgot to say: Quicksilver. Glad that cunt died at least. I couldn't take that accent any longer.

The movie successfully built up Hawkeye as the one that would die, but then it was Quicksilver. 'You didn't see that coming...'

colacentral

Doctor Strange is 100% not dying, at least not permanently. I would put money on it.

I would guess Vision is likely. I'm assuming the majority of the film will be a quest to protect Vision, with him hiding in Wakanda while the big battle is going on, and it ends with them losing and Vision dying.

I initially thought that there'd be loads of deaths and the second film would be some Ant-Man time travel stuff, undoing everything, but since Feige has said the major deaths will be permanent, I can't see how that works. I think people will be pissed off if everything is just undone by time travel.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: colacentral on March 24, 2018, 01:41:33 PM
Doctor Strange is 100% not dying, at least not permanently. I would put money on it.

I would guess Vision is likely. I'm assuming the majority of the film will be a quest to protect Vision, with him hiding in Wakanda while the big battle is going on, and it ends with them losing and Vision dying.
Vision seems an obviously casualty, as the trailer has Thanos (presumably) ripping the gem out of his bonce. Of course, that could be a huge misdirection.

Agree re Strange. No way he's getting bounced off, unless Marvel have decided for whatever reason the character isn't worth sticking with, or Cumberbatch wants out.

Taking Iron Man and Captain America out of the equation going forward, who do Marvel base the franchise around? Spider-Man, naturally, but I do wonder what other names they can pull out of the back catalogue. Do they have big plans for Captain Marvel?

mothman

*Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that Thanos' requirements largely necessitate vivisecting Vision. Hmm. OK then, Scarlet Witch permanently, Dr. Strange perhaos not so permanently. He won't be resurrected in either of these films though, Maybe in a mid-credits scene there'll be an ambiguous tease for it.

checkoutgirl

I don't know who will die but in stark contrast to the Marvel policy of nobody ever dying, I would not be satisfied unless at least half of the roster was wiped out in these films. There must be 500 to 1000 Marvel characters from the comics so there are plenty to choose from. You could literally wipe out the entire lot of them and start again.

Obviously financial realities like Black Panther pulling in a billion are a barrier to that but this is supposed to be the end of a decade long cycle of films and it's being built up as an event. I can't think of anybody dying, did War Machine get a sore leg at one point? Quicksilver died but was that the X-Men? Are they even in this world? Where does Deadpool fit into this? It's confusing.

Anyway despite Marvel fatigue I am looking forward to this. Can't wait to see what Brolin does with the role and I'm almost sure they're going to kill off Iron Man, Cap, Vision and hopefully at least another half dozen top tier characters. Then Spidey and the new lads can save the day and kick the whole second cycle off which will have a termination date of 2029.


checkoutgirl

Quote from: colacentral on March 24, 2018, 01:41:33 PM
Doctor Strange is 100% not dying, at least not permanently.

I'd be surprised if he went. First of all he's fairly new and the hero has endless potential, magic and cosmic mysticism and universe jumping. Also isn't he essentially invincible with that time reverse bracelet? No matter what happens can't he just pop back 5 minutes before something bad happened again and again until the opponent just gives up? That's a stupid idea when you think about it. Nothing has consequences anymore.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: checkoutgirl on March 24, 2018, 02:12:46 PMAlso isn't he essentially invincible with that time reverse bracelet? No matter what happens can't he just pop back 5 minutes before something bad happened again and again until the opponent just gives up? That's a stupid idea when you think about it. Nothing has consequences anymore.
Given Thanos is wanting it for his fancy bit of hand-wear, that loophole might be closed off in future Dr Strange films.

Dr Rock



greenman

Quote from: Mister Six on March 23, 2018, 12:39:08 PM
Yeah, since 2013 I'd say there's only been one stinker (Avengers 2) even if Doctor Strange and Ant-Man were underwhelming. Still, I am also feeling weary of the franchise, even though the quality of the films is higher than it's ever been.

They do seem to have been making an effort to differentiate things visually and tonally since then, with Strange and Ant-Man being hooked around their own visual gimmicks and the GotG films being massively different in visuals and tone from, say, the Captain America films (although Thor 3 felt like it was mining the GotG format somewhat). Even Black Panther had the Afrofuturism thing going on, which was interesting.

But despite the aesthetic changes, the films still fit the action - exposition - action - exposition - action format. It would be nice if Marvel had the balls to break out of that - make the Black Widow movie a stripped-down spy thriller, make a superhero road movie, a superhero Wagnerian opera, a superhero romance (for all the talk, Ant-Man had none of the trappings of a heist movie, so they blew that one).

They sort of had this in the beginning - Thor was basically a low-stakes rom-com; Hulk a horror/monster movie - so maybe they could again.

Unfortunately the next few films appear to be Ant-Man and the Wasp (surely Marvel's least-essential sequel), Captain Marvel (she's a superhero! But also a white woman - not sure if there's a USP beyond that) and sequels to Avengers, Spider-Man and GotG.

They've really been playing with pretty similar toys for the past 4-5 years or so coming up with different configurations of story/tone I'd agree and like you say there doesn't seem to be an obvious shift in the near future.

A Black Widow film does seem like the opportunity to go for something more like Logan(not nesserally R rated but smaller scale and more serious in tone) as indeed might a future Hulk film.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I don't know how far in advance all of this is planned, but it seems like Thor has only just got popular, so I can see them wanting to hold on to him for future films.

newbridge

They should have just painted Brolin purple like with Zoe Saldana/Gamora. The CGI looks annoying, tbh.

I wonder if there's still time for them to reshoot the entire movie.

Butchers Blind


Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

That could be a strong possibility. As I understand it, some part of the rights to the character are still held by Universal, so Disney can't make a solo Hulk film which presumably make him less commercially valuable to them. On the other hand, If Disney kills him off maybe that'd give Universal carte blanche to try again.

Duffing up Hulk would certainly make Thanos seem like more of a credible threat.

Custard

Quote from: checkoutgirl on March 24, 2018, 02:07:40 PM
was that the X-Men? Are they even in this world? Where does Deadpool fit into this? It's confusing.

Both the X-Men and Deadpool (and The Fantastic 4), although Marvel characters, are not part of this universe. Though they very well could be, some point down the line, like what happened with Spider-Man. It's a rights thing

It won't happen, but it'd be a nice moment if the tv lot turned up in IW. Punisher, Daredevil, etc. They are part of the MCU, even though they're not acknowledged in the films. Yet

colacentral

They keep saying it's a logistical nightmare co-ordinating a relationship between the films and the TV shows, but I don't see why they can't just have a quick shot of Matt Murdock looking concerned as he senses a big spaceship overhead. That's all I want really, as it seems a bit pathetic when the shows reference the films but not vice versa, like the films are too ashamed to acknowledge that they exist.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: colacentral on March 24, 2018, 06:36:51 PM
They keep saying it's a logistical nightmare co-ordinating a relationship between the films and the TV shows, but I don't see why they can't just have a quick shot of Matt Murdock looking concerned as he senses a big spaceship overhead. That's all I want really, as it seems a bit pathetic when the shows reference the films but not vice versa, like the films are too ashamed to acknowledge that they exist.
I get what you mean. Even just something like a pre-battle scene in NYC and someone says "anyone got the number of that bulletproof guy?"

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I thought they missed a trick not having the cast of Agents of Shield turn up on the helicarrier at the end of Avengers 2.

BritishHobo

I do really want to see this but fuck my arse if the trailer doesn't make it look like the blandest piece of guff imaginable

BritishHobo


Mister Six

Quote from: mothman on March 24, 2018, 01:32:15 PM
Instead I reckon they'll use it to take one or more of the second-tranche Avengers off the board, one who has perhaps way too much power so would otherwise be a significant counter to Thanos. Therefore, Scarlet Witch, Vision or especially Dr. Strange.

Hawkeye, mate. He's fucked. So fucked your brain has already written him off as dead so you forgot about him.

I see what you're saying about Strange, but it really would be odd, given how he's been set up with a supporting cast and future antagonist.

Quoteif I had to say anybody, I'd say Nebula. Maybe Mantis.

Mantis is played by an Asian woman, right? Might want to avoid for that reason. Although Hollywood gives less of a damn about upsetting Asians than black people...

Nebula likely, to galvanise Gamorra. But really Nebula should be the one to deliver the killing blow on Thanos - that seems like her arc's trajectory, from henchman, to conflicted antagonist to hero. Maybe a noble death that inflicts some kind of ultimately mortal blow on Thanos, or otherwise gives the heroes a critical advantage.

Maybe Drax, as he has limited potential for development, let's face it, and his "avenging his family" plot does make an "I will join them in the afterlife" warrior death plausible. Also killing off the comedy character would be quite ballsy. But Bautista's talked about how proud he was to be a hero for his daughter and he might fight that.

Vision's fucked, I think, because of the stone in his noggin. Like you I don't think they'll kill the black guy.

And like you, I think Cap will be the first to die - passing the mantle on to Falcon. The Black Panther movie had the kids in the post-credit sequence refer to Bucky as the White Wolf, and apparently that's a Marvel hero too, so he might be handed over to the Black Panther franchise as a sidekick rather than taking over as Cap (like others, I think he's too much of a cypher to work in that role).

I think you're right on Stark. Would make the most impact, but I think Marvel would be scared of breaking the franchise.

newbridge

Quote from: Mister Six on March 24, 2018, 09:55:07 PM
Nebula likely, to galvanise Gamorra. But really Nebula should be the one to deliver the killing blow on Thanos - that seems like her arc's trajectory, from henchman, to conflicted antagonist to hero. Maybe a noble death that inflicts some kind of ultimately mortal blow on Thanos, or otherwise gives the heroes a critical advantage.

I can't be bothered to reread the Wikipedia again, but isn't Nebula the one who stops Thanos in the comic storyline (or in some combination with Adam Warlock?)

Namtab

Yeah, he basically goes full bonkers, transcends physicality and she nabs the gauntlet for herself. This might seem a really stupid thing to do for Thanos, but later there's the rather nice moment where Adam Warlock points out there was always a part of him that knew he wasn't worthy of ultimate power, hence subconsciously letting himself lose the gauntlet.

mothman

Of coure, what will be really nice is if it's not at all predictable, and the whole thing leaves us completely surprised...


Shaky

Suddenly excited for this after ages of not giving a shit thanks to witnessing the magnificence that was Thor: Ragnarok.

Marvel, you bastards!

samadriel

Anyone else seen it yet? Hell of an ending, I expect there'll be a bit of a backlash though.

SavageHedgehog

On the whole the critical response seems to have been positive but measured, with hints it may not please everyone. Contrasting this to the initial response to a lot of other Marvel movies and factoring in the level of hype, plus the swathes of loud voices for whom there seems to be no intermediate between masterpiece and disaster, I suspect the public response may prove interesting.