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Avengers: Infinity War - Purple Veiny Helmet Man Attacks!!!

Started by Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth, March 22, 2018, 06:59:29 PM

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Jack Shaftoe

I reckon with Loki, they decided they'd kill that aspect of him, but in a few years time, it wouldn't be totally cheating to bring out Lady Loki, or Kid Loki, from the comics. But not Hiddlestone again.

The start of Infinity War is a hell of a bummer if, like me, you loved Thor: Ragnarok more than almost any other film made in the last ten years. Ah well.

Mister Six

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 22, 2018, 10:46:16 AM
Maybe, but here are a few reasons why he might not be dead:

Your observations make sense, but Loki's faked his own death so many times that it really would be taking the piss to bring him back. At least, not in Infinity War part 2. They're going to have to undo a shit-ton of deaths; they need some to stick in order for anything to mean anything, and Loki and Heimdall have the least plausible escape routes.

QuoteBack to the FF, it seems Fox is now owned by Disney so they could put the FF in the next film if they wanted. Perhaps they were off-planet on a spaceship, getting their powers while half of Earth's population were killed. The next film supposedly takes place a few years after Infinity War, so there's room to introduce them -  but I don't think that will happen, mainly because it would need a whole ew set of effects to capture them, Mr Fantastic and The Thing being particular challenges (without looking shitty as before on film).

Also the Infinity War films have been shot back-to-back, so that's definitely not happening. And introducing the FF offhandedly wouldn't work in any case, I think.

They got away with it for Spider-Man because there were four massively successful films (and Amazing 2) with basically the same character in them. But the Jessica Alba FF films have been all but forgotten by the masses and the Trank reboot tanked. Another reboot to establish (most likely) a lighter tone, in a film that's already busy with fifty thousand other characters, would be a mistake.

I definitely think there'll be an FF film coming once the rights transfer over (although that might take a while, and I believe Comcast may still offer to up on Disney's bid, though I've not checked the news on this for a couple of days), but not for a couple of years at least.

QuoteI hope they introduce that Thanos is in love with (Lady) Death (like in the comics), and that his great plan, as has been pointed out, is stupid compared to what he could do instead (give everyone enough resources). Really he loves killing people, disguised by a mad plan. However when he sacrificed Gamora, that was when she mocked him that he loved nobody so couldn't get the stone - so (as it turned out he loved Gamora) it would seem tricky to later reveal his true love is Death herself. Who knows though, he's capable of loving more than one person/personification of mortality.

I can't see them going full-on with that. They've been embracing the supernatural stuff a bit (Thor actually is a god now, apparently; Doctor Strange has his magic doodads; Black Panther communes with the afterlife - and of course there's that soul stone) but to have Death appear as an actual character would be fucking mental, and wouldn't fit at all with the less OTT portrayal of Thanos in the film.

Mango Chimes

The previous MCU film introduced a Goddess of Death, mind.

Mister Six

Aye, but there's a difference between a goddess of death and an anthropomorphic personification of an abstract concept. Thor is a god of thunder (and lightning, I guess) but he's not thunder (or lightning) itself (or themselves).

DC could probably get away with it because they've gone straight into the demons and monsters stuff with Suicide Squad, but for Marvel it's a step too far, I think.

Mango Chimes

Maybe, but if they were wanting to reference the comics with a twist, they've recently put a Death in place in the shape of an attractive goth lady played by someone the same age as Brolin.

Dr Rock

To raise a now-tired point - they made a success out of a film with a gun-totin' space racoon and a tree that could talk; they can do whatever they want because they do it really well.

Blumf

The bit at the end with Thanos chilling out in that country field, should they have had an unidentified Lady Death turn up there? You know, just a figure appear standing next to him, but framed so you don't see her face, that kind of thing.

I mean, if they are going to use her, that'd be the place to hint about it.

The Culture Bunker

I'd kind of assumed that Lady Death was in Deadpool 2. Not sure you can really hold the "rights" to ol' Grim, though.

And I would be most surprised if they bring Loki back. Perhaps people are thinking of that line "our time in the sun will come again, brother" that he gives to Thor just before getting his neck snapped?

Pretty sure he's gone, anyways, and a few more might join him to make way for the Fantastic Four and others.

Ferris

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on June 23, 2018, 01:32:19 PM
I'd kind of assumed that Lady Death was in Deadpool 2. Not sure you can really hold the "rights" to ol' Grim, though.

And I would be most surprised if they bring Loki back. Perhaps people are thinking of that line "our time in the sun will come again, brother" that he gives to Thor just before getting his neck snapped?

Pretty sure he's gone, anyways, and a few more might join him to make way for the Fantastic Four and others.

What'shername from the Thor film was god of death wasn't she (she played an incarnation of Bob Dylan in that Todd Haynes film I also can't remember the name of)? Is it ludicrous to imagine she turns up in the next one? I don't know much about the film universe and internal rules

(Edit: I looked it up, I am of course referring to Cate Blanchett playing Hela in Thor: Ragnorok. The Todd Haynes film referred to was I'm Not There which I really liked.)

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on June 23, 2018, 01:39:15 PM
What'shername from the Thor film was god of death wasn't she (she played an incarnation of Bob Dylan in that Todd Haynes film I also can't remember the name of)? Is it ludicrous to imagine she turns up in the next one? I don't know much about the film universe and internal rules

(Edit: I looked it up, I am of course referring to Cate Blanchett playing Hela in Thor: Ragnorok. The Todd Haynes film referred to was I'm Not There which I really liked.)
Maybe when Hela was blown up along with the rest of Asgard, she got to meet the actual Death.

Ferris

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on June 23, 2018, 01:47:55 PM
Maybe when Hela was blown up along with the rest of Asgard, she got to meet the actual Death.

Sorry if I'm being slow, but she is death, no? Or this universe's embodiment of the concept? Or is it more a case of - you can be the god of sandwiches, but that doesn't make you a bacon, Vegemite and avocado sub with all the trimmings (ie she the god of death, but not actually death)?

Mister Six

#431
Quote from: Dr Rock on June 23, 2018, 01:19:48 AM
To raise a now-tired point - they made a success out of a film with a gun-totin' space racoon and a tree that could talk; they can do whatever they want because they do it really well.

They introduced those characters in an overtly comedic movie. Infinity War's core is dead serious. What you're suggesting is more like Rocket being introduced for the first time in the last half of Winter Soldier. "Yes, the architect of this plot is a hitherto unmentioned talking trash panda!"

Plus it completely upends the entire first half of Infinity War and undermines Thanos's character. He's been established as this grim bastard who's willing to kill his own daughter to save the universe from overpopulation. If it turns out he actually just wanted to bang some random woman all this time it makes the whole thing into a total farce.

Even more so if she's supposed to be the actual grim reaper, only hot.

(Or even if she's Hela from Thor: Ragnarok, who died in that movie and didn't seem particularly interested in mass murder unless it got her control of Asgard... And who only appeared several films after Thanos first appeared.

Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on June 23, 2018, 01:54:01 PM
Sorry if I'm being slow, but she is death, no? Or this universe's embodiment of the concept? Or is it more a case of - you can be the god of sandwiches, but that doesn't make you a bacon, Vegemite and avocado sub with all the trimmings (ie she the god of death, but not actually death)?

Like I said, is Thor literally thunder itself? No. Hela represents death, but what Dr Rock is talking about is supposed to be the grim reaper herself. Capital-D Death..

Ferris

Gotcha, thanks! I'd kind of reached that conclusion by the end of my post, but nice to have confirmation. And look, you can see my working! My 5th form maths master would be proud.

Mister Six


greenman

Moreso than the Fantastic 4 themselves I wonder whether they might introduce Galatus as a two ultra villain to replace Thanos after the next Avengers film? whilst the latter wasn't a big role before Infinity War the building threat did undermine a lot of the MCU.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: greenman on June 23, 2018, 09:46:23 PM
Moreso than the Fantastic 4 themselves I wonder whether they might introduce Galatus as a two ultra villain to replace Thanos after the next Avengers film? whilst the latter wasn't a big role before Infinity War the building threat did undermine a lot of the MCU.
I have thought that, but you'd imagine a huge planet-eating monster led on his way by a silver-skinned dude on a surfboard might have been mentioned in one of the Guardians of the Galaxy/Thor films, unless there's some kind of millennium-long "hibernation" type angle used.

greenman

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on June 23, 2018, 09:55:47 PM
I have thought that, but you'd imagine a huge planet-eating monster led on his way by a silver-skinned dude on a surfboard might have been mentioned in one of the Guardians of the Galaxy/Thor films, unless there's some kind of millennium-long "hibernation" type angle used.

I could see them starting any buildup fairly slowly ala Thanos but equally doing so quite soon after he is delt with to try and avoid the possibility of people considering that a good point to stop watching, even perhaps even a small hint in the credits of the next film?

Kelvin

How long can you drag out Galactus? He moves through the galaxy destroying worlds. Other than a Thor or GotG appearance, I'm not sure how many earth based stories can keep referencing him.

Dr Rock

I don't think he should be dragged out, like Thanos was. We've seen that. Give Fantastic Four their own movies, ignore how they got their powers, maybe just a line about it to Stark or someone. Wait until the third movie to introduce Galactus and The Surfer. Second movie is Doom done right. First movie.. Annihilus maybe. They're a family that go exploring places like the Negative Zone, that seems enough to set them apart.

newbridge

My understanding was that the Asgardians in the MCU are basically just superheroes who were "gods" to the humans on Earth because they came from another world and had amazing powers. I don't think Thor or Hela are comparable to the god-like galactic entities that are sometimes referenced in the comics, such as Death. I mean it's not even clear that Thor is more powerful than the Hulk.

Mister Six

They backtracked on that in Thor 3 by explicitly having Odin refer to Thor as the God of Thunder though.

Quote from: Dr Rock on June 23, 2018, 10:57:08 PM
They're a family that go exploring places like the Negative Zone, that seems enough to set them apart.

I agree with that. Guardians and Thor are both stepping on their toes when it comes to light-hearted goofy sci-fi, so emphasising that they are explorers and adventurers. Might make it hard to do Doom though.

If the Disney/Fox acquisition comes off, I could see Avengers 4 being another self-contained story playing around with a new team composed of whoever survives Infinity War and/or proves to be popular in the interim, while they settle on a new regular X-Men cast and merge those worlds. Then Avengers 5 (and Avengers 5 part 2) being some kind of mad Secret Wars thing with both the MCU and mutants coming together.

SavageHedgehog

I didn't exactly dislike this but, and I was both hungry and tired when I watched this which may have had an effect, it seemed very light on actual story craft and characterisation, more a succession of "and here's what these guys are up to now!" moments. In some ways that makes it interesting and unique, since there hasn't really ever been an opportunity for a really expensive movie to rely on knowledge of a previous 15+ movies, but I did find it hard to get that invested. Action was generally fairly monotonous too. Thanos was better than most of the villains from the earlier part of the series, but not (yet) as interesting as the villains from the last handful of movies. It was quite impressive how the fairly dry Russo brothers managed to ape James Gunn's style and tone, but the Guardians stuff felt quite jarring and out of place to me.

It also probably didn't help that I already knew the ending, yet even then it's the most interesting and effective part of the movie.

Dr Rock

Quote from: newbridge on June 23, 2018, 11:16:03 PM
I mean it's not even clear that Thor is more powerful than the Hulk.

No one more powerful than Hulk.

Mister Six

Except Iron Man in the Hulkbuster suit, and Thanos, and Thor. Marvel nerfed him pretty badly for the MCU, the poor green galoot. I hope we're due a furious return from him in IW part 2.

Where's this guy?


Dr Rock

Great cover blurb but I'm sure at the same time the Official Handbook Of the Marvel Universe (that thing) put Hulk's strength at way below being able to lift that. He regularly goes toe to toe with Thor (while The Thing for example is never quite up to his strength levels) because Thor is also one of the strongest Marvel characters, and Thanos, well, he's a pretty powerful chap. BUT, Hulk's key strength attribute is 'the madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets' and that usually means his strength levels can go off the charts. That's not really been made clear in the movies. I agree that he would normally make mincemeat out of any armour Tony Stark can fashion, but I'll let that one go.

mothman

Ant-Man and the Wasp is out, so the mid-credits scene is now known. There are indeed post-Thanos ashings a-plenty, but Scott Lang/Ant-Man himself survives it. Also, as far as I can tell Clint Barton/Hawkeye isn't in the film, nor is Jeremy Renner listed on the IMDb page. Not sure now where I got the idea he was in this one. From the sound of thngs, I don't think there's anything really profound that gives us any clue as to how Untitled Infinity War Sequel will go; looks like it's all gonna be on Captain Marvel, then.

Dr Rock

People are speculating the heroes will be jaunting though time to stop Thanos, but I don't think that's likely, people don't really like time travel if it's a free pass to winning like that.

monolith

Only just got around to seeing this (saw it in an empty cinema which has it's pros and cons).

I realise I'm a little late to the party but fuck, I think I've seen 90% of the Marvel films and even I was struggling at times. Also annoyed I never got around to seeing Thor Ragnarok as the beginning seems to lead on from there.

Nearly took a girl who hasn't seen any of the Marvel films, thank Christ I didn't.

Really enjoyed it, despite being absolutely convinced for the entire film that they were going to kill off Thor. Probably because he's my favourite.

Hat FM

couldn't they just go to a parallel dimension a la rick and morty?!

Dr Rock

Maybe, but how are they going to defeat Thanos? Beat him up then make him make all the dead people come back? I think someone like Stark will make him see that 'all this bringing balance to the universe' is a load of hooey - he just likes mass-murder, but needs a fancy reason to tell himself it's justified. 

I imagine he will travel back in time using the time gem and 'unclick' his fingers of his own volition.