Author Topic: Irvine Welsh  (Read 8228 times)

Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2019, 09:14:19 PM »
Something else I’ve noticed recently: are Irvine Welsh’s novels increasingly a list of hotels he’s stayed in and restaurants he’s been to?

Just been reading Dead Men's Trousers and I concur with that. I seem to vaguely remember that being an issue in The Blade Artist, but I let it fly. Now he's going into detail about Las Vegas hotel rooms and LA restaurants and you're like, mate, just fuck off with this. I'm only on page 100 too. There's another 300 to go. Doddery old downturned mouth cunt.

the science eel

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2019, 02:26:31 AM »
He's a nasty cunt and a shit writer.


FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #62 on: July 03, 2019, 03:31:47 AM »
He's a nasty cunt and a shit writer.

He’s not even Welsh. Complete charlatan.

Terryfuckwit

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #63 on: August 18, 2019, 12:16:56 AM »
I have Trainspotting, Porno, Skagboys, Blade Artist, Acid House and Dead Men's Trousers as actual books and read and loved them all, but when Dead Men's Trousers first come out I downloaded a dodgy PDF of it, and even though it was the full book, for some reason I opened it up at the chapter where Renton see's Spud having his kidney taken out by Sickboy, his brother-in-law and the other radge. I thought it was a weird way to start off, seeing as I had just read The Blade Artist and it didn't seem to connect really. Finished the whole book (which I thought was very short) before I realised. I'm a fucking dope. Anyway I read the PDF again and have since read the book again. I liked it a lot but Porno is my favourite. I agree with someone earlier saying how jarring Begbie's personality change was.

Begbie spotting Chizza the beast in Porno, and his mental deterioration during it, is the first time I ever understood written 'horror'. Loved it

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #64 on: August 18, 2019, 07:12:42 AM »
I've not read any of his books, but he wrote a thinly-disguised version of Jimmy Savile in one of them, didn't he?

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #65 on: August 18, 2019, 02:35:35 PM »
He’s not even Welsh. Complete charlatan.

Nor is he from Irvine.

Kryton

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #66 on: August 18, 2019, 05:53:13 PM »
Begbie spotting Chizza the beast in Porno, and his mental deterioration during it, is the first time I ever understood written 'horror'. Loved it

Remind me. Is that when Begbie is recently out of jail and spots Chizza in the pub and glasses him to death?

Terryfuckwit

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #67 on: August 18, 2019, 05:54:06 PM »
Remind me. Is that when Begbie is recently out of jail and spots Chizza in the pub and glasses him to death?

Yeah

Kryton

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #68 on: August 18, 2019, 05:57:09 PM »
Yeah

Been a while since I read it, but was it something along the lines of 'six fucking six, fucking six... Number 'ay the beast'?

Also how many people has Begbie killed now? No massive spoilers but he didn't kill anyone prior to Porno did he?

Terryfuckwit

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #69 on: August 18, 2019, 06:00:57 PM »
Been a while since I read it, but was it something along the lines of 'six fucking six, fucking six... Number 'ay the beast'?

Also how many people has Begbie killed now? No massive spoilers but he didn't kill anyone prior to Porno did he?

I think it's a manslaughter charge by the start of Porno, Chizza in Porno two guys in Blade Artist and an actor in DMT

Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2019, 07:19:41 PM »
He has a vision of them all at a table during his DMT trip in Dead Men's Trousers, and I think there's about 6 or 7 people he's killed there.

Kryton

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #71 on: August 18, 2019, 10:09:25 PM »
He has a vision of them all at a table during his DMT trip in Dead Men's Trousers, and I think there's about 6 or 7 people he's killed there.


Oh I just remembered something about Begbie's youth in the Blade artist. But I dunno how to do the white text for spoilers...

****** SPOILERS **********

As for the character change of Begbie in the above book being considered too much (some critics said it was highly improbable that he'd turn to art and marry Melanie that American woman and settle down with kids),but don't forget this was briefly touched upon in an earlier story in a chapter set around New years eve when he refuses to hurt anyone, even letting bygones be bygones with a perceived enemy, even going so far to sing in front of everyone. And then again in the short story set around Christmas time (the one printed in the Big issue), he basically has his first Christmas meal with his family that doesn't result in him smashing the fuck out of anyone and even goes so far to give his Jakey brother some money (at the behest of Melanie).

So I think the hints were there.

I mean he's still fucking crazy and murderous but Begbie 2.0 is (in my opinion) much more interesting to read. Him killing those guys on the beach was a direct result of them threatening his family. And in the same book he eliminates several gangsters in Leith (the creepy predatory 'buddy' who makes sex videos, the new gangster who kills people in drive-by-shootings and the old school gangster who tried to exploit Begbie many years earlier). All very horrible of course, but those people were all equally repulsive. At least he's not hurting innocent people this time.

Terryfuckwit

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #72 on: August 18, 2019, 10:54:01 PM »
Oh shit, yeah. I totally forgot Anton and the other guy he does in

Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #73 on: August 19, 2019, 09:42:14 AM »
Oh I just remembered something about Begbie's youth in the Blade artist. But I dunno how to do the white text for spoilers...

****** SPOILERS **********

As for the character change of Begbie in the above book being considered too much (some critics said it was highly improbable that he'd turn to art and marry Melanie that American woman and settle down with kids),but don't forget this was briefly touched upon in an earlier story in a chapter set around New years eve when he refuses to hurt anyone, even letting bygones be bygones with a perceived enemy, even going so far to sing in front of everyone. And then again in the short story set around Christmas time (the one printed in the Big issue), he basically has his first Christmas meal with his family that doesn't result in him smashing the fuck out of anyone and even goes so far to give his Jakey brother some money (at the behest of Melanie).

So I think the hints were there.

I mean he's still fucking crazy and murderous but Begbie 2.0 is (in my opinion) much more interesting to read. Him killing those guys on the beach was a direct result of them threatening his family. And in the same book he eliminates several gangsters in Leith (the creepy predatory 'buddy' who makes sex videos, the new gangster who kills people in drive-by-shootings and the old school gangster who tried to exploit Begbie many years earlier). All very horrible of course, but those people were all equally repulsive. At least he's not hurting innocent people this time.

In that short story set at Christmas (hilarious, by the way) he headbutts his sister’s new boyfriend for stopping him choking. He’s definitely violent and the same old Begbie. Although I don’t remember his brother been given money either, so we may be talking about different stories.

Jockice

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #74 on: August 19, 2019, 10:12:46 AM »
),but don't forget this was briefly touched upon in an earlier story in a chapter set around New years eve when he refuses to hurt anyone, even letting bygones be bygones with a perceived enemy, even going so far to sing in front of everyone.

Is that the bit in Trainspotting when he doesn't even mind Second Prize pissing on his curtains?

Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #75 on: August 19, 2019, 11:48:27 AM »
Second Prize appears briefly in DMT. I wanted to hear more about him, but all you get is a brief description of him looking like a walking corpse. Sounds like he's still on the booze.

Kryton

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #76 on: August 19, 2019, 07:16:35 PM »
In that short story set at Christmas (hilarious, by the way) he headbutts his sister’s new boyfriend for stopping him choking. He’s definitely violent and the same old Begbie. Although I don’t remember his brother been given money either, so we may be talking about different stories.

There's two short stories set at Christmas, I think one is called Reheated cabbage. The first one is typical Begbie, smashing a table, hitting someone, upsetting his mum etc.

The second one I think is just after meeting Melanie and he's slightly more controlled (but I forget the finer details).

Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #77 on: August 19, 2019, 07:51:25 PM »
I've not read any of his books, but he wrote a thinly-disguised version of Jimmy Savile in one of them, didn't he?

It's a story in Ecstasy called Lorraine Goes to Livingstone and it's a fucking mental one even for Irvine Welsh. The thinly disguised Savile-like is a necrophiliac.

Terryfuckwit

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #78 on: August 19, 2019, 07:52:02 PM »
There's two short stories set at Christmas, I think one is called Reheated cabbage. The first one is typical Begbie, smashing a table, hitting someone, upsetting his mum etc.

The second one I think is just after meeting Melanie and he's slightly more controlled (but I forget the finer details).

Where are these?

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #79 on: August 19, 2019, 08:10:53 PM »
The first is found in the Reheated Cabbage collection.
It's a short called "Elspeth's Boyfriend" narrated by Begbie, set shortly after the time of Porno.

The second sounds like a short Welsh did for the Big Issue called "He Ain't Lager".

https://www.bigissue.com/culture/irvine-welsh-new-story-aint-lager-begbies-back/

Jockice

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #80 on: August 20, 2019, 09:33:53 AM »
Second Prize appears briefly in DMT. I wanted to hear more about him, but all you get is a brief description of him looking like a walking corpse. Sounds like he's still on the booze.

Cut out of the films too. He was my favourite character in the book. Mainly because I used to know someone very much like him, even down to the being a brilliant footballer who had trials for a top team but blew it because of boozing bit.

hillbillyholiday

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #81 on: August 20, 2019, 12:38:12 PM »
Mr. Welsh seems to have a "thing" about dogs...

* Trainspotting: Dog gets shot then strangled
* Filth: Dog eats sheet of acid, jumps fourteen floors to its death
* Glue: Two guard dogs have legs broke, are hung, then set on fire
* Skagboys: Puppy thrown down garbage chute, is found chewing on aborted fetus
* Maribou Stork Nightmares: Four dogs strangled, another has head blown apart by fireworks





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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #82 on: August 21, 2019, 06:21:48 AM »
Mr. Welsh seems to have a "thing" about dogs...

* Trainspotting: Dog gets shot then strangled
* Filth: Dog eats sheet of acid, jumps fourteen floors to its death
* Glue: Two guard dogs have legs broke, are hung, then set on fire
* Skagboys: Puppy thrown down garbage chute, is found chewing on aborted fetus
* Maribou Stork Nightmares: Four dogs strangled, another has head blown apart by fireworks

Obviously a cat person.  Just my sort of guy.

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #83 on: August 21, 2019, 02:58:44 PM »
It's a story in Ecstasy called Lorraine Goes to Livingstone and it's a fucking mental one even for Irvine Welsh. The thinly disguised Savile-like is a necrophiliac.

Yeah, I posted this excerpt in another thread.

Quote
Freddy Royle had had, by his standards, a tiring day prior to his late afternoon arrival at St. Hubbins. He had been in the television studios all morning filming an episode of From Fred With Love. A young boy, whom Fred had sorted out to swim with the dolphins at Morcambe's Marineland, while his grandparents were brought back to the scene of their honeymoon, was all excited in the studio and writhed around on his lap, getting Freddy so aroused and excited that they had to do several takes. -Oi loike em still, he said, -very, very still. Barry, the producer, was not at all amused. -In the name of God, Freddy, take the rest of the fucking afternoon off and go to the hospital and shag a stiff, he moaned. -Let's see if we can dampen that bloody libido of yours.

Kryton

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #84 on: August 23, 2019, 08:55:52 PM »

****** SPOILERS **********

Quote
As for the character change of Begbie in the above book being considered too much (some critics said it was highly improbable that he'd turn to art and marry Melanie that American woman and settle down with kids),but don't forget this was briefly touched upon in an earlier story in a chapter set around New years eve when he refuses to hurt anyone, even letting bygones be bygones with a perceived enemy, even going so far to sing in front of everyone. And then again in the short story set around Christmas time (the one printed in the Big issue), he basically has his first Christmas meal with his family that doesn't result in him smashing the fuck out of anyone and even goes so far to give his Jakey brother some money (at the behest of Melanie).

Continuing on from this. It could have been a better story if the intro to the book didn't exist, with Begbie's fiery murderous rage kept a secret or in doubt. Like say he suggested to Melanie that he was just going to the beach 'and having a word' and having that intro chapter being from Melanie's POV maybe? And him returning much later in good spirits and embracing his wife and kids. That could have supported his mannerisms in the scenes at his son's funeral, everyone expecting Begbie to go fucking nuts when someone mentions 'cremating the disease of his son' but he just breathes it in and out, instead allowing his mates to deal with the situation.

I think as interesting as it was allowing the viewer into the secret that Begbie is still extremely violent and murderous from the start takes away what could have been a pressure-pot type tale of the reader being left with guessing his intentions and motivations all the way through. Breathe, count tay fuckin' ten.


Terryfuckwit

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #85 on: August 23, 2019, 10:39:24 PM »
****** SPOILERS **********

Continuing on from this. It could have been a better story if the intro to the book didn't exist, with Begbie's fiery murderous rage kept a secret or in doubt. Like say he suggested to Melanie that he was just going to the beach 'and having a word' and having that intro chapter being from Melanie's POV maybe? And him returning much later in good spirits and embracing his wife and kids. That could have supported his mannerisms in the scenes at his son's funeral, everyone expecting Begbie to go fucking nuts when someone mentions 'cremating the disease of his son' but he just breathes it in and out, instead allowing his mates to deal with the situation.

I think as interesting as it was allowing the viewer into the secret that Begbie is still extremely violent and murderous from the start takes away what could have been a pressure-pot type tale of the reader being left with guessing his intentions and motivations all the way through. Breathe, count tay fuckin' ten.

It does do that doesn't it? It's not til later that it goes through what actually happened to them. Maybe am wrong I often am

Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #86 on: August 24, 2019, 02:09:41 AM »
I’ve just re-read Dead Men’s Trousers.

We see three first class flights, one apiece for Renton, Sick Boy and Begbie, lovingly detailed. At one point Frank treats himself to a night at the Hilton in order to fly back to L.A first class the next day. With Welsh there’s always a vague sense he’s taking the piss but it’s always coupled with the unease that he is making baffling fucking choices, not out of artistic bravery but because of his secret desire to boast about his own good fortune.

I’m sorry, but he should have just written about different characters. Read Trainspotting and this time keep it in mind that two of them will end up with ‘places’ in Santa Monica. He’s destroyed his best work.

Btw, why does Begbie....(SPOILER).....





Kill that film actor?

Kryton

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #87 on: August 24, 2019, 10:51:53 PM »
It does do that doesn't it? It's not til later that it goes through what actually happened to them. Maybe am wrong I often am

I thought he killed them in the first couple of chapters? Maybe I'm wrong but I seem to remember them being murdered BEFORE he fucks off to Scotland to his son's funeral. Then when he's away Melanie is being harassed by that cop or detective or whoever he was and she's convincing herself that Begbie was a changed man.

Terryfuckwit

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #88 on: August 24, 2019, 10:55:34 PM »
I thought he killed them in the first couple of chapters? Maybe I'm wrong but I seem to remember them being murdered BEFORE he fucks off to Scotland to his son's funeral. Then when he's away Melanie is being harassed by that cop or detective or whoever he was and she's convincing herself that Begbie was a changed man.

Yeah, I think you're right, but the early chapters do not describe the events. It is sorta kinda left vague, later on in the book the stabbing and etc is described in full.

Kryton

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Re: Irvine Welsh
« Reply #89 on: August 24, 2019, 10:58:12 PM »
Yeah, I think you're right, but the early chapters do not describe the events. It is sorta kinda left vague, later on in the book the stabbing and etc is described in full.

Aaah right, maybe it's time for a re-read.

Who did Begbie kill in Dead Men's trousers?