Indiana Jones V

[greenman]

There's a real risk Harrison Ford will die of old age before this is made, he's already approaching the life expectancy of a man of his nationality.

Thise figures include poor people and River Phoenix though.

[biggytitbo]

Harrison Ford used to be poor, and he used to be River Phoenix.

[Operty1]

There's a real risk Harrison Ford will die of old age before this is made, he's already approaching the life expectancy of a man of his nationality.

It'll either be old age or a plane crash, they need to take his pilot's license off of him.

[Blumf]

Harrison Ford's dad is still kicking, so I don't think we need to worry about him just yet.

[Replies From View]

Indiana Jones and The Part Time

[momatt]

Anyway, what's everyone's favourite bit of Indianas Joness ands thes Kingdoms ofs thes Crystals Skullssssssssssssss?


Mine is when I turn it off after the first fifteen minutes.
Fucking magnetic gunpowder.  Fucks ache.

[gatchamandave]

I agree, his age wasn't the problem with Crystal Skulls.
It was everything else about the film.

Get a decent script and it'll be fine.

Yes. Something elegiac for a dying age of adventure heroes, just as The Shootist was for John Wayne. To me what Crystal Skull lacked was a sense of dignity for a hero whose age had passed, it should have been The Searchers but it was Brannigan.

[Mister Six]

Harrison Ford used to be poor, and he used to be River Phoenix.

+120 karma

[St_Eddie]

Anyway, what's everyone's favourite bit of Indianas Joness ands thes Kingdoms ofs thes Crystals Skullssssssssssssss?

*shakes fist*

To answer your question; Indy and Mutt in the diner (I love the bit of Mutt stealing a drink and Indy putting it back) and the ensuing motorbike scene (the part where Indy climbs into the Russion's car window, punches them and reemerges from the opposite window, is wonderful).  If the entire movie had been of that standard, then it would have been fantastic.

[St_Eddie]

I know that I shouldn't continue to post on Reddit but I'm a glutton for punishment.

PERSON A: Ford was too old to play Indy 10 years ago.

PERSON B: How was he too old? Do they put age restrictions on archaeologists?

MYSELF: You do know that the Indiana Jones movies aren't even vaguely representative of real-life archaeology, right?

PERSON B: His age is one more odd against which he must fight. I only see it as a good thing for the movie.  And we really don't know when this film will take place. It could be closer to the modern day, it could take place in 1940 when Jones is half Ford's current age. We really don't know.

MYSELF: How? It's not like they can afford to use CGI to de-age Harrison Ford for the length of an entire movie.

PERSON B: They can't? Why not?

MYSELF: I don't think you grasp just how much work it would entail, to utilise this technique for the length of an entire movie, nor how cost prohibitive it would be. As an example, the brief scene of a de-aged Schwarzenegger in Terminator Genisys took 12 months to add the synthespian to 35 shots that made up a total of less than five minutes of screen time, and the last shot in the fight sequence finished rendering 30 minutes before the final cut was due to Paramount.

Now imagine doing that for an entire movie. It's much more complicated to de-age an actor, whilst avoiding the uncanny valley effect (see; Rogue One), than it is to convincingly transform an actor into a fantastical creature (see; Gollum in Lord of the Rings). The human eye knows what a person should look like (particularly a young version of a famous person) and is amazingly adept at picking up the slightest of discrepancies. Whereas, a fictional creature; not so much because we've never seen a real life version and as such, have nothing to compare a CGI version to.

PERSON B: There are reasons big budget movies cost tens to hundreds of millions to make. They have teams of people to do this work. Every movie that Hollywood makes is combed over, frame by frame, multiple times to add and take away a lot of detail, as well as to embed anti piracy elements into the picture. Every frame of every major movie, even lower budget romantic comedies, is awash in cgi today. They budget for this. And most of it you will never see or care about.

Stars in films are already de-aged and deflawed. Even younger ones. It's been standard post production work for years now.

They do these things for every movie for the entire movie. It is definitely expensive, but certainly not too expensive.

Do you really believe Lucasfilm, and Disney can't afford to make what is essentially a CGI laden movie? Did you see Tintin? The human eye wasn't fooled by digital effects 15 years ago, but it is now.

Source: I worked at Deluxe in Toronto doing this sort of work for a couple years about a decade ago.

MYSELF: I'm sorry but that doesn't really address the reasons I gave for why it wouldn't be feasible to de-age a known actor for the length of an entire movie. Your example of Tintin does not equate to an appropriate example. The characters in said movie were a mix of realistic and cartoon.

Working at Deluxe in Toronto is only germane to the topic at hand, if you were de-aging actors in the same manner as Terminator Genisys and Rogue One and I know that you weren't because if you had been doing that kind of work, then you'd know that the technology has not yet progressed to the stage where it's feasible to utilise for the length of an entire motion picture.

PERSON B:  I mentioned Tintin not because it looks so realistic, but for other reasons. First, to point out that technologies are used to seamlessly immerse CGI and what is shot live. They could easily have made it more or less photo-realistic. The point is the seamless immersion of what is generated by computer, and what is not. The degree of realism or stylization is a choice that is made.

Secondly, like the new Indiana Jones installment, Tintin is a Spielberg film. Spielberg is on the cutting edge of the technology used in major motion pictures, and has been for decades. Digital effects like various de-aging methods are developing film technologies that are used with extreme effect in the biggest films being released, and more subtly in pretty much every film.

Honestly, who's to say that the new Indiana Jones won't have a similar style to Tintin, ie. 'a mix of realistic and cartoon.' There has been no promise or suggestion made that this movie will be anything like the other 3 (or 4) films. Frankly, I sincerely hope that Spielberg approaches this film the way he approached Raiders of the Lost Ark, with no expectations, and just takes a conceptually original stab at his final Indiana Jones film. Either way it will be laden with digitally implimented touch ups.

Young Kurt Russell

Young Johnny Depp

Young Robert Downey Jr.

Young Carrie Fisher

Young Michael Douglas

Young Anthony Hopkins

They even de-aged to Peewee Herman

These are just the flashier examples of something that has actually been discretely happening for a few years now, even before Disney's Lucasarts started investing heavily in the concept. You really don't think you'll be seeing de-aged performers starring in movies in the very near future? As I said, given Lucasarts practices and Spielberg's previous works, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he made a starkly younger Indiana Jones.

WORLD EXCLUSIVE: Indiana Jones V will possibly be made in the style of Steven Spielberg's The Adventures of Tintin: The Secret of the Unicorn; a semi-realistic CGI cartoon.  Also, it's no more complicated or costly to realistically de-age a known actor, than it is to render characters in a cartoonish manner.

Furthermore, it's entirely possible for filmmakers to realistically de-age a known actor for the length of an entire movie.  They've just chosen not to for thus far, for some weird reason and all interviews with the experts who do this work for a living, talking about how difficult and expensive the technique is to achieve for even just a few minutes of screen-time is just them talking absolute bollocks.

SOURCE: A guy who used to do work in some capacity at a place which does colour grading.

[Phil_A]

Pretty sure Tom Cruise already uses digital de-aging in his movies, definitely the case in the recent Mummy catastrophe.

[St_Eddie]

Pretty sure Tom Cruise already uses digital de-aging in his movies, definitely the case in the recent Mummy catastrophe.

The techniques which were being discussed by "PERSON B" are employed within film and have been for some time now.  He wasn't wrong on that front.  Flattering lighting during production and a quick bit of digital touchup during post-production; it happens all of the time.  However, that is not the same as de-aging someone like Harrison Ford by 20-30 years, by using state of the art technology.  That's a different (and vastly more time consuming and expensive) kettle of fish.  Also, Tom Cruise is aging a lot more gracefully than Harrison Ford.

[Dr Rock]

I'd like to see Indy drink a magic potion and he becomes a cat, and then gets into an adventure with a mouse and a ball of wool. I'd also like it if there were some tits in it like you used to sometimes get in action movies.

[biggytitbo]

The techniques which were being discussed by "PERSON B" are employed within film and have been for some time now.  He wasn't wrong on that front.  Flattering lighting during production and a quick bit of digital touchup during post-production; it happens all of the time.  However, that is not the same as de-aging someone like Harrison Ford by 20-30 years, by using state of the art technology.  That's a different (and vastly more time consuming and expensive) kettle of fish.  Also, Tom Cruise is aging a lot more gracefully than Harrison Ford.

They were both the same age in these films -




The de-aging tech has gotten really good, with Robert Downey Jn and Michael Douglas in the marvel films, but yeah we're talking a few minutes tops, an entire film even by 2020 is probably not logisitically feasible, unless they can get a computer to do it automatically.

[St_Eddie]

The de-aging tech has gotten really good, with Robert Downey Jn and Michael Douglas in the marvel films, but yeah we're talking a few minutes tops, an entire film even by 2020 is probably not logisitically feasible, unless they can get a computer to do it automatically.

Preciously.  It won't be logistically possible for an entire movie for at least another 7-10 years, I reckon (with the end result consistently avoiding the uncanny valley effect).  As for having a computer working its magic automatically; that's far beyond the realm of current possibility.  The current technique for achieving de-aging for even a few minutes of screen-time is absurdly complicated and about as far removed from 'automatic' as you can get.

[Blumf]

Deepfakes mate.

Indiana Jones and the Hard Pounding

[St_Eddie]

Deepfakes mate.

Indiana Jones and the Hard Pounding

I wonder if there's a deepfake for Harrison Ford, sporting a fedora and all?  More to the point, is there one for Karen Allen (circa Raiders of the Lost Ark, as opposed to Kingdom of the Crystal Skull)?  Perhaps there's a deepfake of the two of them together, with a soft jazz version of the Indiana Jones theme playing in the background?  Enquiring minds must know!

[biggytitbo]

Rather than frame by frame de-ageing, maybe it would be viable to motion cap Ford through the entire film and replace him with a cgi avatar? I mean it'd obviously not 100% pass for real but perhaps if they make each scene foggy or have Indy stood behind bushes etc it could work.

[Avril Lavigne]

They should just do a prequel with Anthony Ingruber to make up for him not being the lead in Solo.

[Shaky]

Rather than frame by frame de-ageing, maybe it would be viable to motion cap Ford through the entire film and replace him with a cgi avatar? I mean it'd obviously not 100% pass for real but perhaps if they make each scene foggy or have Indy stood behind bushes etc it could work.

Jim Broadbent's character could spend the whole film explaining to Indy's pupils why he hasn't turned up for class yet again.

They should just do a prequel with Anthony Ingruber to make up for him not being the lead in Solo.

I hope you're being sarcastic.

[buzby]

Preciously.  It won't be logistically possible for an entire movie for at least another 7-10 years, I reckon (with the end result consistently avoiding the uncanny valley effect).  As for having a computer working its magic automatically; that's far beyond the realm of current possibility.  The current technique for achieving de-aging for even a few minutes of screen-time is absurdly complicated and about as far removed from 'automatic' as you can get.

Should have directed them towards MPC's VFX breakdown video for how they recreated 1982 Sean Young for BR2049 and pointed out it took them 2 attempts that took 12 months each to get to that level for one scene (and it was all hand animated and composited - they tried doing it semi-algorithmically in their first attempt and Villeneuve rejected it as far too unrealistic).

[AsparagusTrevor]

I think that example from BR2049 is the most convincing fully-CGI human face I've ever seen, but yet there's still that slight doubt in the mind that leads to the uncanny-valley. It's so minute, but it's still there.

[St_Eddie]

Should have directed them towards MPC's VFX breakdown video for how they recreated 1982 Sean Young for BR2049...

Perhaps I should have but I get the feeling that "PERSON B" would have still continued to move the goalposts and double down on his "insider knowledge" because he came across as someone for whom it is more important that he be right, then to admit when he was wrong.  Predictably, given that this is Reddit, my comments were downvoted and his were upvoted.  That's far from the first time that I've stated a fact, free of personal opinion and been downvoted for it on Reddit.

[St_Eddie]

Principal photography began this week on Indiana Jones V and they're currently filming at Bamburgh Castle in Northumberland.

Joining Harrison Ford among the cast for the new movie are Mads Mikkelsen, Phoebe Waller-Bridge, Thomas Kretschmann, Shaunette Renee Wilson and Boyd Holbrook.

Meanwhile, a person on Reddit (so take the following with a mountain of salt) claims to have some insider information regarding the title and general plot of the movie...

'There were apparently several names registered with the MPAA but the rumoured title is said to be 'Indiana Jones and the Empire of Evil'

[Other registered titles include...]
​
Indiana Jones and the Chronos Device

Indiana Jones and the Jewel of Chronos

Indiana Jones and the Treasure of Chronos

Indiana Jones and the Bell of Elysium

Indiana Jones and the Next Frontier

Indiana Jones and the Celestial Empire

Indiana Jones and the Empire of Evil

[The plot is as follows...]

​The film opens at the close of World War 2 at a German Castle where covert experiments are being carried out on religious artefacts brought their by Nazi Archeologists. A De Aged Harrison Ford has infiltrated the facility intent on recovering an artefact of historical interest. He witnesses a young German Scientist swept up by A mysterious Bell shaped artefact. Soon word comes from Germany to close the facility and The Bell is loaded onto a Nazi train along with serval other pieces and carriages full of gold. Indy pursues the train and fights with a formidable Nazi Officer König (Mads Mikkelson) but the train disappears into the mountains never to be seen again.

In the late 60s Indy is contacted by a young British Reporter (Phoebe Waller Bridge) who claims that NASA are working with a former Nazi Scientist (Who turns out to be König) to track down something called Die Glocke, A Glowing rotating contraption rumoured to have anti gravitational properties. The American Government want to use it to advance the space race, unaware that it have the potential to manipulate time itself. This was Hitlers secret weapon in case the war was lost

Indy races against his own country to track down Die Glocke before König

Karen Allen and John Rhys-Davies will have cameos

Indy's quest takes him to Italy, Greece, Poland and Norway'

For those who aren't aware, if that leak is true (and that's a big if) then the new sequel's MacGuffin will be the Die Glocke, which was a fabled Nazi secret weapon.  The train mentioned at the beginning of the supposed synopsis would presumably be this mythological one.  It is perhaps worth noting that the synopsis above does tally with other recent rumours that the plot for Indiana Jones V would involve the space race in some way.

EDIT: A stuntman wearing a young Harrison Ford mask was spied during filming (which for those wondering, would be the foundation for a deepfake of young Ford applied in post-production).  This does align with the synopsis above.

[MojoJojo]

It's weird they're doing a fifth one without doing a fourth one.

[An tSaoi]

I thought Spielberg wouldn't do any more cartoon baddie Nazis because of his experiences making Schindler's List.

[St_Eddie]

I thought Spielberg wouldn't do any more cartoon baddie Nazis because of his experiences making Schindler's List.

Steven Spielberg isn't directing this one, James Mangold is.  Speilberg stepped down as director due to "creative differences" but remains onboard as an executive producer.  By all accounts he appears to have no real creative input in the project anymore.  His name's only there for appearances and more importantly, residuals.

[An tSaoi]

Jesus. Indy without Spielberg. This has no hope of being good.

[Ian Benson]

EDIT: A stuntman wearing a young Harrison Ford mask was spied during filming (which for those wondering, would be the foundation for a deepfake of young Ford applied in post-production).

Nobody would opt to do a deepfake or digital face/head replacement on someone wearing a mask. That wouldn't really make any sense for a number of reasons. You might have to go down that road if the mask didn't pass muster in certain shots but masks such as the one in those images would be used for wide shots and/or low lit shots.

[St_Eddie]

Nobody would opt to do a deepfake or digital face/head replacement on someone wearing a mask. That wouldn't really make any sense for a number of reasons. You might have to go down that road if the mask didn't pass muster in certain shots but masks such as the one in those images would be used for wide shots and/or low lit shots.

You may be correct, regardless it does rather suggest that a de-aged Harrison Ford will feature at some point.