whaddya hear, whaddya say? Sopranos Chat 21 years on

[colacentral]

It's a shame that it's technically a drama, so never gets considered amongst the ranks of the greatest comedies of all time. It's hilarious. Interestingly, David Chase was early on considering making it an out and out comedy (if I recall, it was to be more of a comedy if the bloke who went on to play Jackie Snr got the role of Tony, but eventually they plumped for Gandolfini, who made Tony a more serious, brooding character); and that he described it as potentially being like a live-action Simpsons. I think you can totally see that when you think about the wide, colourful cast of characters, who are almost all perfectly-formed comedy characters and could carry sitcoms by themselves (think of the Bobby and Junior show for example).

But what it most reminds me of is Seinfeld - Full Leather Jacket in particular is essentially a Seinfeld plot; it's easy to imagine Uncle Leo forcing that awful jacket onto Jerry. Likewise, I think it's easy to imagine George seeing a movie made by an acquaintance and have the dawning realisation that it's about him, ala Tony and Cleaver.

I know that the AV Club drew comparisons with the UK Office; I think The Larry Sanders Show isn't a million miles away either.

It's amazing that, as the show went on, they still kept coming up with brilliant new idiot mafia characters, where on another show they all would have blended in as being basically the same idiot. Little Carmine and Phil Leotardo don't even appear until season 5! (At least not prominently - Little Carmine might have had a single scene in season 4).

Speaking of, Little Carmine alone could fill this thread up with quotes.

"You're very observant: the sacred and the propane."

[Custard]

In the end though, wasn't Carmine the only one who got out? I know they pressured him into coming back and helping sort out the NJ/NY war, but I imagine once that was over he went on to a nice retirement, sipping Sex On The Beach in his jacuzzi

He wasn't a bad sort. Well, not compared to virtually everyone else

[DrGreggles]

Whenever Anthony Joshua gets called 'AJ' I immediately assume they're talking about Tony's son.
Get a new nickname, Josh!*

*'Josh' perhaps?

[rasta-spouse]

It's amazing that, as the show went on, they still kept coming up with brilliant new idiot mafia characters, where on another show they all would have blended in as being basically the same idiot. Little Carmine and Phil Leotardo don't even appear until season 5! (At least not prominently - Little Carmine might have had a single scene in season 4).

The casting on this show was immaculate. They created a totally authentic universe that seemed more real than any show ever (even The Wire strained itself with that pretty boy Old Etonian). Most other tv, in comparison, is ruined by its insistence on safe, accessible casting.

[paruses]

I was always under the impression that a lot of the actors were first-timers and recruited the life almost - a bit like Vinnie Jones being allowed to do some acting and finding out he was not terrible terrible but it seems that's not true and I've been living on misinformation for about 12 years.

I got through a few more last night. Am probably watching them a bit fast really but I may well just start again at the end once my memory has been refreshed.

I liked the call-back from Paulie over not burning the horse painting along the lines of "It's class. It's got trees, a meadow. Wooden frame. Thing like this is worth 25 - 30 grand easy" (it's the obsession with the material value of the frame that I think is brilliant).

Tony has also banged Svetlana (or the other way round). I'd forgotten how upset he gets when she says she has enough problems of her own to get involved. And also when Janice opens the door to her and engages in some passive-aggressive spiel: "[sigh] you're a very boring woman [limps past]".

Svetlana - may be the only one-legged woman I have a crush on.

[paruses]

I love Ralphie's emphatic answering machine message. :

"Leave a message & make sure you leave a phone number. With my schedule I do not have time to be looking up phone numbers"

Do you think that as the series progresses that Tony chooses goomahs who resemble the young Livia more and more looks-wise? Irina doesn't particularly then Gloria, then Valentina - I haven't got to Juliana Margulies yet but she does. Can't remember who comes after that.

[Blinder Data]

Do you think that as the series progresses that Tony chooses goomahs who resemble the young Livia more and more looks-wise? Irina doesn't particularly then Gloria, then Valentina - I haven't got to Juliana Margulies yet but she does. Can't remember who comes after that.

Doesn't Melfi explicitly bring up the fact that Tony's goomahs are always dramatic and emotionally unbalanced, exactly like Livia? Can't remember when it happens but pretty sure she does it to make a breakthrough and Tony goes mad in response

[Custard]

"I DON'T WANNA FUCK MY MUM!"

[QDRPHNC]

[paruses]

Doesn't Melfi explicitly bring up the fact that Tony's goomahs are always dramatic and emotionally unbalanced, exactly like Livia? Can't remember when it happens but pretty sure she does it to make a breakthrough and Tony goes mad in response

She does but it occurred to me last night that they also start to look very much like the Livia of the flashback scenes in S1/2 (I don't think they happen after Livia dies).

You have just reminded me of Tony with his medical speak asking about if Valentina is likely to have had penetrative sex with Ralphie:

".. he could technically not have penisary contact with her Volvo*?"

(*The internet suggests Volvo but I heard vulva and the subtitles say vulva. I don't think the malapropism is warranted here.)

[Custard]

Didn't she cheese-grate his balls, too?

[paruses]

I believe that is where she drew the line.

[thraxx]

Got to end of s01e04 last night. The scene with Jackie's funeral where both AJ and the FBI are watching the classic greaseball posturing manages to be heartwarming, poignant, stereotypical, pathetic and hilarious all in parallel.

Another thing I'd forgotten is all the G on G neck hugging and shoulder patting that goes on in this show. If there's a You Tube montage of it it must be hours long.

[shiftwork2]

This thread - and my lack of recognition of some of the characters mentioned let alone the plot points - has made me realise it's time to watch it again.  Cheers!

[paruses]

I'd forgotten some of the characters and a lot of the little details but it's the plot points that I'm surprised I've skewed so much. Adriana has just been picked up by the Feds and I thought that wasn't for another series and a half, Furio's here much earlier and longer than I thought, Junior's not senile then suddenly senile, loads of stuff really - I won't go on as it's just me describing how bad my memory is.

One thing folk might be able to help me with is Artie and Charmaine - do they reconcile? In the one where he tries to kill himself he seems to just be sitting alone in a batchelor pad - I suppose it could be his house. She also seems indifferent to him flirting openly with the French waitress. Also - why is she still around if the brother tried to scam him (maybe it wasn't a scam and just a very bad business deal)?

[Custard]

They split up at least twice, but by the end they're giving it another go

[thraxx]

Series 1, Episode 10.  The first reveal of just how gorgeous Adrianna is.  Stomach flippingly, breathtakingly, achingly gorgeous.

[paruses]

Series 1, Episode 10.  The first reveal of just how gorgeous Adrianna is.  Stomach flippingly, breathtakingly, achingly gorgeous.

Is that a tennis one? I liked the tennis ones.

Have just watched the intervention episode. Fantastic how it unravels. I remember even at the time realising that it was going to go badly but it builds really well starting out as a bit fractious and then the whole confusion and disgust over the dog incident; Tony completely floored by it and Paulie implying that if it was barking that would be a reason to kill a dog.

[thraxx]

Is that a tennis one? I liked the tennis ones.

Have just watched the intervention episode. Fantastic how it unravels. I remember even at the time realising that it was going to go badly but it builds really well starting out as a bit fractious and then the whole confusion and disgust over the dog incident; Tony completely floored by it and Paulie implying that if it was barking that would be a reason to kill a dog.

It's the one where Massive Genius makes an appearance and Chris sets up Adrianna as a band manager.

[thraxx]

Right.  Series 1, Episode 12; Isabella. 

Isabella, the lovely Italian dental student, is supposed to be a figment of Tony's imagination, if that's the case then how come that Carmela also sees her and has an argument with Tony about her. Great to hear Tindersticks not once, but three times in this episode.

[bgmnts]

Right.  Series 1, Episode 12; Isabella. 

Isabella, the lovely Italian dental student, is supposed to be a figment of Tony's imagination, if that's the case then how come that Carmela also sees her and has an argument with Tony about her. Great to hear Tindersticks not once, but three times in this episode.

Doesnt Tony mention thst bit and she replies something along the lines of "what arguement?" ?

[thraxx]

Doesnt Tony mention thst bit and she replies something along the lines of "what arguement?" ?

Must of missed that bit.  Too busy dribbling over Isabella.

[bgmnts]

No argument there. Although i was more partial to the lady mob boss in Italy myself.

[lipsink]

Funniest lines that spring to mind

From Season 2

Richie: (about dealing coke) "I'm working with Junior on this."
Tony: "I don't care if you're working with Wal Mart. Knock it the fuck off."

Also from Season 2
(When Bobby suggests getting something to eat)
Junior: "Did you not hear me with my balls, who could fucking eat?"

[thraxx]

Series 2, Episode 3.  The horrible characters are really starting to pile up.

I had forgotten just what a nasty, creepy, reptilian, spiteful wanker Richie Aprile is. Ideally suited to Janice who is equally horrible in her own way.  I could never take Junior for real, because he always looked and sounded like a character from Curb Your Enthusiasm or a Mel Brooks comedy.  He's completely lacking credibility, not just as a boss, but as a hood. 

Brilliant casting and acting from all involved though.

So many funny little touches.  Like when Tony has his first one way discussion with Richie in the Mall, Camera tight in on their close faces with Tony telling him to back the fuck off and in the background of the shot there's all these knickers hanging there, the cheesy muzak playing over the top.

[colacentral]

I could never take Junior for real, because he always looked and sounded like a character from Curb Your Enthusiasm or a Mel Brooks comedy. 

You mean like Larry David?

[thraxx]

You mean like Larry David?

Nah, but maybe Larry's Dad?

[paruses]

Just watched the ep where Junior starts to wander and sees an episode of Curb.

As funny as The Simpsons was with the plaintive cry of "why is my face on a box?"

[thraxx]

Data Giunta has turned up.  Fucking hate him.

[paruses]

Yes! It has always bugged me that no one else spotted that.

What's wrong with him though? He does have a weak exit (see above for allegations of being a dick) but is pretty good up to the Carmela bit.

Got to admit the way he deals with the sauna owner and his wife is masterful, surely.