The Rise & Fall & Rise & Fall of Reginald Corbyn: The 20th CaB Corbyn thread

[Paulie Walnuts]

I've lost count of the number of times you guys are relying on me being a convenient charicature or a previous poster as a method of arguing with me

[Johnny Yesno]

You just bore the tits off us, Poorly. You've trolled your way into a cul-de-sac.

[Paulie Walnuts]

You can keep making it about me to deflect, but today was a very bad day for Corbyn and the far left scum of Momentum

[Dr Rock]

You will kneel before him.

[Cuellar]

word is he left a little early

Word is wrong (as usual).

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

https://skwawkbox.org/2018/04/17/the-205-lab-mps-who-supported-corbyn-call-for-parliament-to-approve-military-action/

[thugler]

https://skwawkbox.org/2018/04/17/the-205-lab-mps-who-supported-corbyn-call-for-parliament-to-approve-military-action/

Fucking crazy. There are some really shit labour mp's

[pigamus]

Obviously Paulie Walnuts is a disingenuous cunt but that's totally unfair on Ruth Smeeth and dismissive of the horrible abuse she's received

This. Luciana Berger too.

[Dannyhood91]

Someone today told me there were 0 casualties with the Syrian bombings but I'm too drunk/lazy to check but that can't be true can it?

[Bobloblawslawbomb]

You can keep making it about me to deflect, but today was a very bad day for Corbyn and the far left scum of Momentum

So Pauline, we know what you think about Corbyn, that's in the bank. Have you got an opinion on the racist Tory party, racistly deporting British citizens? Surely you condemn it right, bravely committed as you are to stamping out bigotry in politics?

[tenmen]

Are you not even going to discuss the antisemitism debate then?

[Johnny Yesno]

No. Bye.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Obviously Paulie Walnuts is a disingenuous cunt but that's totally unfair on Ruth Smeeth and dismissive of the horrible abuse she's received

I'm not sure it is dismissive. Not being surprised is not the same as being dismissive of it. I'm not sure what you think we owe here. The point of the comment you took offence to seems to be that there's nothing for us as outside observers to actually discuss about the reeling off of online abuse other than shaking our heads and saying its awful. It is. What more are you after?

Also I note the people who want to talk about it more haven't mentioned any other aspects of the debate or said anything constructive which immediately calls up what their motivations are by going on about it. No-one here has been anything less than committed to whatever actions can be taken under the law and the party to tackle anti-Semitism.

If you want my opinion it is

1) the abuse is awful and indefensible
2) it is nevertheless being used cynically as a vehicle to try and depose Corbyn, which isn't warranted, these contributions to the debate were orchestrated stunts which they hoped would dredge the issue back up but were eventually totally overshadowed by a larger news story about institutional racism of the establishment and the right wing - hence why the Telegraph ran the anti-Semitism story and not the story about the Tories' hatred of blacks and not just nasty words but their actual treatment of black immigrants as lesser beings

It's possible to be both victims and cunts.

[Paul Calf]

Thanks, shoulders, for making the post I should have made. I tend to assume that everyone knows how these arguments develop, so I take the short-cut to the end. It's always worth showing working-out, but a couple of decades of being trolled by cynical narcissists can make a fellow jaded.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Morning all,

So Pauline

Is misgendering amusing now?

So Pauline, we know what you think about Corbyn, that's in the bank. Have you got an opinion on the racist Tory party, racistly deporting British citizens? Surely you condemn it right, bravely committed as you are to stamping out bigotry in politics?

Of course, it's appalling

Much like the momentum filth, I have no particular allegiance to any political party, so you won't find me defending the Tories on this, but you guys are covering that very well, I'm covering the things you're ignoring, such as;

Two thirds of Britons think that Labour under Corbyn has an anti-semitism problem

And you guys honestly think he's a shoe-in at the next general election?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-racism-anti-semitism-religion-jewish-ukip-israel-palestine-a8305706.html

And here is the Shadow Home Secretary either refusing to condemn Anti-semitic abuse, or just being a thick twat;

https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/986304523743481856

[Johnny Yesno]

Funny how these posters who think they're above politics always seem to be right wing shits with very narrow obsessions.

[greencalx]

If there was an actual debate about the issue, I'd be happy to join it. But like Shoulders says:

1. There are incidences of antisemitic behaviour in the Labour Party and/or among Labour supporters.
2. I am not aware of any strong evidence that the incidence level within this group is higher or lower than the population at large (or among the support of other mainstream political parties)
3. That notwithstanding, efforts must be made to reduce 1.
4. If it turns out that this isn't a Labour problem specifically, then it's reasonable (i) to expect other parties and organisations to follow suit and (ii) to question the motives behind those people wanting to perpetuate the idea that it is specifically a Labour problem.

Now, if you can show me, for example, that the Labour party membership is disproportionately antisemitic, then there might be scope for a debate.

[ZoyzaSorris]

Given that the only polling evidence we do have shows that anti-semitic attitudes are far more prevaelnt amongst Tory voters, I think we have the answer to our question.

[olliebean]

And yet not one person appears to have asked Theresa May what she's going to do about the antisemitism in her party, let alone demanded she take personal responsibility for it, which tells you something about the motives of the people calling it out in Labour.

[idunnosomename]

Well there is also the point that Corbyn is more likely to call out Israel for human rights atrocities, as part and parcel of calling out human rights atrocities worldwide. But we're supposed to keep quiet about our "allies" like Israel and Saudi Arabia, and concentrate on our "enemies" like Syria, because that's how the world works, apparently. And truly nasty self-proclaimed (i.e., it says so on their Twitter profile, not a slur) Zionists will use this as evidence for anti-Semitism.

There's a constant self-proclaimed voices of reason that keep saying that anti-Semitism should not be equated with criticism of Israel. Yes, they are entirely separate. But a lot of these powerful Jewish lobby groups - who don't represent all Jews any more than Jewdas do - keep doing entirely that.

It's a very difficult position.

[Jockice]

Are you not even going to discuss the antisemitism debate then?

Yes. Every member of Labour who is on speaking terms with Jeremy Corbyn hates Jews and thinks the Nazis were right, That's what you want us to say isn't it? Well I've said it (even though I don't mean it) so you can go now. See ya.

[pcsjwgm]

Worth noting that Ruth Smeeth once smeared black anti-racist activist Marc Wadsworth as an anti-semite, attributing to him comments he did not make:

The former Israel lobbyist and high-profile Labour lawmaker Ruth Smeeth has deleted a statement from her website which alleged anti-Semitism in Labour.

In one of the most high profile instances of the supposed "anti-Semitism crisis" in the UK's main opposition party, Smeeth in June 2016 claimed she had been "attacked by a Momentum activist and Jeremy Corbyn supporter who used traditional anti-Semitic slurs to attack me for being part of a 'media conspiracy.'"

Activist Marc Wadsworth had in fact neither said nor implied anything about Jews. Neither did he use the word "conspiracy."

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/labour-israel-lobbyist-deletes-anti-semitic-conspiracy-claims

It's also possible that some of the "Corbynista" anti-semitic abuse she received was not from genuine Corbyn supporters, but from fake pro-Corbyn accounts owned by right-wingers doing their bit to continue to fuel the "Labour anti-semitism crisis" hysteria. For example, this ostensible Muslim Corbyn-supporting account has its profile photo lifted from the dating website profile of someone living in Hungary:
https://twitter.com/AsaWinstanley/status/980071213291724800

The following tweet is about another tweet, which contained an image saying to "Nuke Israel", posted by yet another "Muslim Corbyn supporter." The profile photo of the account (which has been suspended) was taken from a news story about an American accused of trying to join ISIS.
https://twitter.com/in_confidential/status/983367428649431041

[BlodwynPig]

that second paragraph is important. This IS a conspiracy to destroy Corbyn, nothing they say can be taken as fact without them presenting firm evidence.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Anyhow

Moral leadership

https://evolvepolitics.com/jeremy-corbyn-was-one-of-only-6-labour-mps-to-vote-against-the-bill-that-caused-the-windrush-scandal/

We have the right leader. Not the easiest route to power ever but the most righteous one.

Seeing as he's settled into the admin/ceremonial stuff ok and can at least match May at QT (I appreciate thst isn't a major achievement), let him get on with it, and get the NEC to cull the bigots and abusers.

[greencalx]

that second paragraph is important. This IS a conspiracy to destroy Corbyn, nothing they say can be taken as fact without them presenting firm evidence.

Exactly. One of the things that make it hard discussing the "debate" is that calling into question the authenticity of some of the abuse can be seen as minimising it.

The press would have you believe that if you showed up to a local Labour party meeting you'll find a bunch of people wearing swastikas and goosestepping around the place, whereas I suspect this is unlikely to be the case. (Due to an unfortunate confluence of babysitting and work duties I've not made it along to a CLP meeting yet, but I would be surprised if there was any behaviour like this going on). Online abuse may or may not come from genuine people. Where it is genuine, then it should be treated as the law demands.

[BlodwynPig]

It's the biggest "cunts trick" in the book. Smear a group with opposing values with the neuroticism and hatred you yourself retain.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Not a surprise as such, or going to lead to change, but fairly significant: the Mirror is calling for Theresa May to resign.

[pancreas]

Not a surprise as such, or going to lead to change, but fairly significant: the Mirror is calling for Theresa May to resign.

We (Labour, Momentum etc) should jump on this. Put the antisemitism stuff into perspective with some real and genuine charges of institutionalised racism in the Tory Party.

JOB has kicked off well.

[Paul Calf]

You can buy all the million quid bottles of wine you like, Pankers. You do more for the Labour Party than the vast majority of people both on this board and in the wider world.

[pancreas]

You can buy all the million quid bottles of wine you like, Pankers. You do more for the Labour Party than the vast majority of people both on this board and in the wider world.

Well, I try at least. We'll see how my left-wing CLP take-over project goes.