Westworld Series 2

[Mobius]

Just watched the actual new episode and it was pretty great!

So McPoyle is a bit of a shit?

Cool to see Hanzo off Fargo

[Ja'moke]

What do we reckon the "weapon" is that Dolores referenced? I assumed it was whatever Young William showed her being built in that construction site, but still, I have no idea what that is. I've seen some theories that it could be a dam, and that it's later destroyed and that's how all that water got into the crater we saw last week (with the drowned hosts).

My full recap of Ep 2 for those that are interested: https://www.tvinsider.com/684241/westworld-recap-season-2-episode-2/

[mothman]

I assumed it was all going to be some great blackmail/leverage plot - it's been established that while What Happens in Westworld may Stay In Westworld, but Delos are also recording everything so that all the great & good's predilections can be laid bare is ever needed. If they're also gathering DNA (not sure where I got that from, I didn't pick it up in the episode - Ja'moke's review maybe?) then...

[$]It seems to me they're going down the Futureworld route, cloning the great & good.

In which case, calling it now: the Man in Black versus his Totally Evil Robot Us...es, er, Hims...es. Oh, you know what I mean! Yul Brynner, Schmul Brynner.[/$]

[phantom_power]

Is the weapon not the big digging machines? She can use them to destroy Westworld and break everything apart

[Ja'moke]

Not sure if people are still watching, but tonight's is episode a good un, mainly due to a fantastic performance by Peter Mullan.

[mothman]

I'm watching it! Thought last week's was rather a come down from the opener. The plot depended rather too much on people conveniently bumping into each other, like Maeve & Co just happening to meet Armistice, Felix & Ptolemy. Or Gale just happening to meet the goon squad.

[Mister Six]

Not seen the fourth but I hope it's a step up because the third episode was absolute shit. I don't know what anyone's actual motivation is any more, except for Maeve. That's especially true of Dolores/Wyatt, who just seems to be doing things completely at random.

And that makes it really hard to invest myself in the story. I know the Nolans are unfeeling, mechanical clockwork people but someone should have told them to knock the endless mysteries on the head once Ford bought it, so the story can actually develop momentum.

Didn't help that the assault on the fort was absolute dogshit with the tension and verve of a middling Quantum Leap episode. Surely to god you can't get away with having big ground explosions go off while two or three stuntmen throw themselves in the air any more? It was alright in the Sharpe stories but they were made 20 years ago.

And why did Dolores waste ammo having her men shoot through those thick wood doors to kill the Confenderales? Why hadn't they already been gunned down by the fellas with futuristic orange machine guns, especially since they weren't even fighting back at this point? How do pistols even punch through fort doors anyway?

This stuff should have been obvious to anyone reading the script. How did it get on screen?

[Lost Oliver]

Do agree with the above but the fourth episode was a cracker. Possibly because Dolores and Maeve weren't in there. I just like it when we get time with characters and they're allowed to breathe. Give me a whole episode on each of the main protagonists and I'd be happy. Not gonna happen though is it?

[steveh]

Have been a bit meh about the second series so far. The first was interesting in how the different motivations between people played out as well as being intellectually engaging, particularly over what actually makes people human. The second has spent too long on tedious battles that don't seem to really add up to anything or progress the story fast enough. It feels at times like the Bernard thread is the only one with value and the rest is just there for filler.

[surreal]

Do agree with the above but the fourth episode was a cracker.

Agreed, really threw the whole thing wide open... I did wonder if they were having problems with Delos because he had Parkinsons or something and it was carrying across to the copies, and on to Bernard as he now has a copy in his head (I think?)

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

Delos also coughed a lot in his initial appearance. The trembling was part of the symptoms, which is why it would carry across to the copies, so they wouldn't notice anything before the reveal.

[monolith]

It does annoy me that everyone pronounces Bernard wrong, should be pronounced like Bernard Manning. I correct them but it gets tiresome after a while, just say his name right, he's called Bernard.

[gib]

It does annoy me that everyone pronounces Bernard wrong, should be pronounced like Bernard Manning. I correct them but it gets tiresome after a while, just say his name right, he's called Bernard.

In series/season one someone did say it correctly, almost as if to make your point.

Anyway i am watching this and will continue to do so.

It is a bit like Lost though isn't it? A scotsman trapped in a pod with an exercise bike and a turntable that only plays tracks from JJ Abrams's first mp3 player

[mothman]

I remember the ITV adapatation of Len Deighton's Game, Set & Match trilogy - from, Christ, 30 years ago - had an annoying American character (one Bret Rensselaer, wow I can remember his name) who persisted in pronouncing Ian Holm's character BerNARD Samson. I think tjhis is the first time since I've really noticed they do it.

[porn]

Just caught up. With the introduction of human-host hybrids and AI telepathy, I'm guessing the 'mistake' William made was showing Dolores some kind of technology that allows a host consciousness to be moved around the network and interact with other hosts (either he tells her what it can do or she works it out for herself). I mean, when Strand learns a third of the recovered hosts were completely wiped, with nothing that can be recovered, what could have happened was their code was transferred to the hybrids and their back-ups were destroyed in the process. If this is Dolores' master plan, it would give the hosts a pretty good way of infiltrating the 'real world', wouldn't it?

And I know Westworld is already no stranger to Biblical/Miltonesque allusions, but this last episode definitely set my Bible alarm off: "It will come about in all the land, declares the Lord, that two parts in it will be cut off and perish; but the third will be left in it. And I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,' and they will say, 'The Lord is my God.'" (Zechariah 13:8-9)

[phantom_power]

I thought the mistake was trying to copy a human consciousness into a host

[porn]

I thought the mistake was trying to copy a human consciousness into a host

What William reveals to Dolores, whatever is located at Glory/The Valley Beyond, was William's 'mistake'. As he says to Lawrence in Episode 2, after eliminating El Lazo's army:

Lawrence: "Who the fuck is Robert? The man who built this place you're looking for? This place of judgment?"

MiB/William: "No, Lawrence, he doesn't get that honor. I built it. And this place we're going is my greatest mistake."

And as Dolores cryptically reveals to Teddy in the same episode:

"I know what we're going to find there [i.e. Glory]. An old friend was foolish enough to show me long ago. It's not a place. It's a weapon - and I'm going to use it to destroy them."

So, the 'mistake' is something we'll see when they reach their destination, rather than something that's already been revealed. As I say, with the introduction of hybrids (some of whom may live in the 'real world' and, as we know Delos was collecting DNA, may have even replaced some of the guests and board members), the mesh network and mind control, I can see the weapon being a broadcasting device that Dolores uses to transmit host data and/or Maeve uses to amplify her mind powers, contacting AIs around the world. Perhaps the freedom Maeve talks about will also be the freedom of host-minds to move about the network, finding and inhabiting different bodies. This is just guesswork from the pieces they've given us.

[porn]

Come to think of it, we were never sure Ford wasn't a host, were we? I really hope he isn't. I don't want them pulling that trick again.

[phantom_power]

Come to think of it, we were never sure Ford wasn't a host, were we? I really hope he isn't. I don't want them pulling that trick again.

I imagine they would have spotted if he was when Dolores blew his brains out wouldn't they?

[mothman]

Unless he's mastered personality/memory transfer or even full consciousness transfer or replication, and what we see is just his original body being killed and he now lives on for real elsewhere, in the system or another Host.

[phantom_power]

Yes that is a possibility, though I imagine if that happens it will be in a different-looking body as I doubt they will get Hopkins back

[porn]

I imagine they would have spotted if he was when Dolores blew his brains out wouldn't they?

I do have these mad panics every now and then, and I don't relish showing people that I'm essentially a bit harebrained. I'd simply forgotten we saw Ford's rotting, maggot-ridden corpse already this season. Unless he built a replica that could mimic decomposition in some way, I think I can put my "Was Ford a host?" brain fart to rest.

Unless he's mastered personality/memory transfer or even full consciousness transfer or replication, and what we see is just his original body being killed and he now lives on for real elsewhere, in the system or another Host.

This seems more likely. In Person of Interest, Nolan could only very briefly explore what it means for a human to 'live on' as a machine, so I'm glad this is being carried over to Westworld (with a few differences I won't mention). What he and Joy have done with it so far has been fantastic, thanks in a large part to Peter Mullan, and I imagine HBO will give them quite a lot of wiggle room for later stuff.

[jamesKeenanautobiography]

How the ratings for this

[Small Man Big Horse]

How the ratings for this

They're not great, but it has already been renewed for a third season: https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/westworld-season-two-ratings/

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

HBO doesn't care about the ratings, especially as (and it's the case for most sci-fi or fantasy shows) most of the hardcore audience for Westworld will watch it on HBO Go or another service. They don't sell ads with prices based on the ratings.
What they care for is media coverage, water cooler conversations, basically bringing their show into the Zeitgeist. Because that's how they gain subscriptions (and sell DVDs). Their shows have to be the hottest topic on TV, so non-subscribers will get the feeling they are missing something, and they ultimately make the plunge for HBO. If Westworld results in weekly coverage on the most influent sites and blogs, its work is done.
That's why they allowed Girls to have six seasons, while they shortened the life of Boardwalk Empire or killed Vinyl after just one season. Even if those shows had a much larger audience, they were just comfort food, something that got much less reaction (well, reaction to Vinyl actually got negative after a couple of weeks), while Girls was "must-see TV" (even if people weren't actually watching it).

[Small Man Big Horse]

HBO doesn't care about the ratings, especially as (and it's the case for most sci-fi or fantasy shows) most of the hardcore audience for Westworld will watch it on HBO Go or another service. They don't sell ads with prices based on the ratings.
What they care for is media coverage, water cooler conversations, basically bringing their show into the Zeitgeist. Because that's how they gain subscriptions (and sell DVDs). Their shows have to be the hottest topic on TV, so non-subscribers will get the feeling they are missing something, and they ultimately make the plunge for HBO. If Westworld results in weekly coverage on the most influent sites and blogs, its work is done.
That's why they allowed Girls to have six seasons, while they shortened the life of Boardwalk Empire or killed Vinyl after just one season. Even if those shows had a much larger audience, they were just comfort food, something that got much less reaction (well, reaction to Vinyl actually got negative after a couple of weeks), while Girls was "must-see TV" (even if people weren't actually watching it).

I've heard that too but they've still cancelled the odd critically acclaimed series due to shit ratings, like my beloved Enlightened, whose cancellation I'm still bitter about, especially as it was supposed to be three seasons and done.

I'm really struggling with this now, bar Thandie Newton I don't care about any of the characters. Oh, and I guess I like Teddy, though the new version is less appealing. Still, if Hopkins is actually back (even if it's just for the occasional cameo) and it's not more dodgy cgi then it might improve, but I'm not optimistic.

[Chairman Yang]

Christ, this show has settled into a slow plod - some people walk around, they get separated, then they meet up later and refuse to talk about what happened to them. Occasionally something sinister and Delos-y will be mentioned, repeat until the flashbacks meet up with episode 1.

Also, Mt. Fuji is really big, guys.

[Ja'moke]

I really enjoyed Episodes 4 and 5, but yeah, last night's episode had far too much hopping around to the various stories, and there are far too many superfluous characters eating up screen time. It's shame because there are still great moments amongst all that (William and his daughter's chat, most of the Maeve stuff), but last night I felt like those moments didn't get a chance to truly breathe because we had to bounce back to less interesting characters. More in recap for those who are interested: https://www.tvinsider.com/692550/westworld-episode-6-asks-us-to-choose-a-path-recap/

[olliebean]

Still, if Hopkins is actually back (even if it's just for the occasional cameo) and it's not more dodgy cgi then it might improve, but I'm not optimistic.

The obviously faked reflection in the piano doesn't give much hope, does it?

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

I've heard that too but they've still cancelled the odd critically acclaimed series due to shit ratings, like my beloved Enlightened, whose cancellation I'm still bitter about, especially as it was supposed to be three seasons and done.

Enlightened was critically acclaimed, but it didn't translate into frequent coverage from mainstream sites, while Girls covered their base, as it generated debates and controversies.

I'm really struggling with this now, bar Thandie Newton I don't care about any of the characters. Oh, and I guess I like Teddy, though the new version is less appealing. Still, if Hopkins is actually back (even if it's just for the occasional cameo) and it's not more dodgy cgi then it might improve, but I'm not optimistic.

The point of nu Teddy is that he's supposed to be less appealing. It made me think of these characters from shows who get redesigned and lose at this point the very quality that made them endearing in the first place. He may be more useful to Dolores now that he's not too soft for his own sake, but he's turned into something generic and unappealing, just with a few settings changed.

After Giancarlo Esposito appeared on the show a few episodes, he gave an interview explaining that he had been offered the part due to talking to Anthony Hopkins. It suggests that Hopkins is still involved behind the scenes after his commitment to the main cast during the first season, and that he will make the occasional cameo inside The Cradle. It makes sense, the various moments during which some hosts talk with the personality of Robert Ford wouldn't be much effective, as the memory of season one would fade further and further without some connection to the original actor.