Westworld Series 2

[mothman]

Still enjoying watching it but feeling a disquiet. What was the point of Samurai World except for a bit of character development and a lot of obvious fan service? It's starting to remind me of that season of GoT where nobody did anything but walk around. They can't be expected to parrot the nonlinear storytelling style of s1 (or rather duplicate the revelation that the storytelling was quite SO nonlinear) but they need to do something; even Bernahrd's slipping in and out of two timelines seems to have fallen by the wayside - though that may not be any great loss, they need to do more with Jeffrey Wright than have him wander around looking confused.

I'm hoping the virtual Ford will explain a few things. Presumably his desire to generate self-awareness in Delores wasn't meant to include her going the full Skynet.

Also, whatserface looked WAY too good for someone chained in a cave for several weeks. Didn't notice a shower in there.

[surreal]

Was the point of the opening scene that Bernard is actually Arnold in host form now?

[mothman]

Was the point of the opening scene that Bernard is actually Arnold in host form now?

That feels unlikelybecause of the sheer chopping and changing that has been done with Bernahrd's code. It's already been demonstrated that running a personality on Host hardware is tricky enough as it corrupts even when you;'re not patching it and running hidden subroutines. The opening scene felt a bit odd, like it could be st some point further in the future. It's almost as if it's there to remind us of the meaning of "Fidelity" in case it comes up again before the end of the season.

In fact, I'd forgotten about Fidelity. But then I struggle to remember a lot of the names anyway. Above. I forgot Elsie. I had to be reminded by Ja'moke's writeup who Logan was. I actually share a name with one character and I keep forgetting what he's called.

[Lost Oliver]

I didn't think I'd be saying this after series 1 but I'm considering giving up on this.

Was in love with the first series but this feels all over the place, manipulative, predictable and dull. What's happened?

Only the inclusion of Hopkins at the end of the last episode kept me interested. I think I'll see out this series and leave.

What's happening to me? Has someone changed me coding?

[surreal]

I think this season is probably likely to seem messier as they have to get a lot of bigger ideas introduced to move things on for next season.  They have to have all the pieces in place to move things on.  Hopefully it will clear up more towards the end of the run.

[Avril Lavigne]

I didn't think I'd be saying this after series 1 but I'm considering giving up on this.

Was in love with the first series but this feels all over the place, manipulative, predictable and dull. What's happened?

Only the inclusion of Hopkins at the end of the last episode kept me interested. I think I'll see out this series and leave.

What's happening to me? Has someone changed me coding?

I'm pretty much the same way.  I loved the first Season but in this one I was just about ready to give up, until Episode 4 pulled me back in with the Delos & Young William storyline.  Then it returned to tedium again.  For a sci-fi show with so much potential to explore unusual concepts, there's a hell of a lot of bland, uninspired stuff padding it out.

[Artemis]

From my perspective, the issue with this new season is the disconnect from the overarching story. In season one, the balance between what was happening in the park and what was happening 'backstage' was really well drawn. There was a narrative that was compelling and provided an arc you were curious about following.

This season, although accomplished, feels more soap-opera and 'then they went here and did this, then they went there and did that'. Plenty of action, not much reflection or progress. I suspect they were concerned not to be seen as under-delivering so went the way of the badass, but forgot substance.

[a peepee tipi]

That episode had all the elements of a shit episode, but Zahn McClarnon's a very commanding presence and there were a lot of gorgeous shots there

[Ja'moke]

This show is always better when it focuses in on one story/character (the Delos ep, Shogun World, and now this one).

[mothman]

Finally the episode that reveals why they cast Zahn McClarnon. He's just so watchable. The bit when he's first reliving the fight, but much slowly as he realises how programmed it all is and that he's following a script, is superb physical acting, just the right level of hesitation and confusion.

[Small Man Big Horse]

I thought it was fairly decent but overlong, the whole thing could have been told in about 30 minutes if they'd cut out shots of the (admittedly beautiful) scenery.

[Jack Shaftoe]

I was thinking that at first, but after a while I got into it, and it felt like a proper Western: slow and elegiac. I'm glad WW is picking up again, because Legion S2 went right up its own arse.

[Artemis]

That was everything I had hoped from S2, seven episodes too late. But beautiful all the same. Genuinely affecting storytelling.

[mothman]

I'm finding the whole "future-oldie pop songs rendered in some environment-specific way, whether diegetic or not" - like the various songs on the Player Piano, the Japanese version of "Paint It Black" (for all it's basically a call-back to the Player Piano version from s1), the sitar version of "Seven Nation Army" - a bit annoying now. It's feeling a bit too cute now, plus it's annoying because a) you expect it, and b) you then spend ages trying to identify the song (the Radiohead one from s1 nearly drove me fucking mad).

Plus, it feels like they're trying too hard - in general, and in trying to appeal to what American geeks of a certain age will like. "Black Hole Sun," for fuck's sake. I wouldnt mind if the choice was maybe a bit more varied, throw in some non-indie bubblegum pop. Let's have "Never Gonna Give You Up"* or "Wannabe" or the Beatles (a show this high-profile, they could probably swing the permissions).

And all that is even while entertaining the possibility that there's an in-universe explanation, that all those American geeks of a certain age are the ones patronising the park in 30 or 40 years' time, and wanting to hear stuff they're familiar with...

*_{Yes, I know it's been used, after a fashion.}

[Small Man Big Horse]

Ugh, that was all rather annoying. I don't really care about William's descent in to madness, and  given that presumably anyone can come back from the dead it's hard to really care about characters dying. If this is the end of Teddy then it'll be a poignant and affecting moment, but I'll believe it when I see it. Next week's episode really better be stellar stuff and surprise the fuck out of me, otherwise this season will be all a bit of a mess.

[a peepee tipi]

Ugh, that was all rather annoying. I don't really care about William's descent in to madness, and  given that presumably anyone can come back from the dead it's hard to really care about characters dying. If this is the end of Teddy then it'll be a poignant and affecting moment, but I'll believe it when I see it. Next week's episode really better be stellar stuff and surprise the fuck out of me, otherwise this season will be all a bit of a mess.

I agree. I think the spectacle of the first season finale is what really made the whole thing work and elevated the show to something great, but this season has had none of the intrigue so I can't see it closing out on a similarly high note.

[mothman]

I'm rather hoping they're wiping the slate clean, I'm getting bored of some of these characters. William I think has had his day. Teddy was never that interesting to begin with, for all that Marsden played him quite subtly and understated.

Thing that surprised me was quite how malevolent Ford is turning out to be. His desire to elevate the Hosts seems less about them and their potential, and more born of misanthropy.

But it turns out I was right about one thing: Maeve's original plan to escape was programmed in, not true emergent consciousness.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Ugh, that was tedious and bland and all a bit shit. I'm out.

Just in case folks turned it off the moment the credits start, there is a sequence afterwards. Another annoying sequence.

[olliebean]

Getting a bit fed up with all the double/triple/n-le bluffing now. It's too much effort to figure out what order things actually happened in.

[Avril Lavigne]

Ugh, that was tedious and bland and all a bit shit. I'm out.

Same, and if I were the actress who plays Clementine I'd have read the script for this season and immediately called them up to ask if they had some kind of personal problem with me. What a waste of potential for a character.

[Ja'moke]

I was disappointed in the finale, and this season as a whole. It had moments of brilliance (the Jim Delos ep and the Ghost Nation ep), but way too much meandering, unnecessary convoluted plotting and weak characters. If anyone is interested, here's my finale recap: https://www.tvinsider.com/698384/westworld-episode-9-the-passenger-recap/

[Small Man Big Horse]

I was disappointed in the finale, and this season as a whole. It had moments of brilliance (the Jim Delos ep and the Ghost Nation ep), but way too much meandering, unnecessary convoluted plotting and weak characters. If anyone is interested, here's my finale recap: https://www.tvinsider.com/698384/westworld-episode-9-the-passenger-recap/

That was a great review, and your comments about how "The problem is, I don't trust Westworld when it comes to death. And it's not just the hosts" is a major issue I have with the series as well, there seems no weight or depth to the deaths of major characters when we know they may well be back next year.

[Ja'moke]

That was a great review, and your comments about how "The problem is, I don't trust Westworld when it comes to death. And it's not just the hosts" is a major issue I have with the series as well, there seems no weight or depth to the deaths of major characters when we know they may well be back next year.

Exactly. Even if a human dies, we know they have their data stored, so they can just turn back up as a host.

[mothman]

Presumably to retain any meaning to the name some part of season 3 will be in Westworld. We know that Maeve et al will probably be salvaged but will they still be the same? Do Delos still have the capacity/knowhow to reprogram them? For one thing, it occurs to me that nobody is left alive who knows what Maeve can do, except Felix & Sylvester. Where they went wrong though was making this death if hers feel so final, when we know it isn't; what she's doing g us saying goodbye to her old life and her daughter who she's sending off for a better, safe life. But it didn't feel like it.

[notjosh]

Westworld Reloaded.

[phantom_power]

I liked individual elements of it but the whole added up to a big load of nothing. I can't help feeling that the writers are more interested in showing how clever they are than presenting a good story. I don't see any real need for the time fuckery expect to create these plot twists which end up being underwhelming. Nolan mentions Memento in some of the interviews and it sort of shows how he fundamentally misunderstood what made that film so good. The way the time was handled added to the story and characterisation and wasn't just used for cheap reveals. It was also based on the main character's affliction and attempting to put the viewer in his head. Westworld just seems to use it for gimmickry and showing off

[mosh]

I think Nolan and Joy have said they read Reddit a lot, so it wouldn't surprise me if the timefuckery was there because they didn't want Redditors (and the Internet at large) second-guessing their plot twists, and then moaning about how easy they were to predict, again.

I wish they had the confidence to tell their own story and didn't care a jot about those fuckers complaining.

[surreal]

All this has been making me wonder if they are going for an "all this has happened before" type thing where there are actually no humans left, the hosts no longer know they are hosts and start building more and it goes round in a circle. 

[mothman]

Well, at James Delos' retirement party there was a woman seen from behind who looked a lot like Six from Battlestar Galactica. Assuming that was intentional, it may have just been a small in-joke. But you have to wonder, especially given the William seen in the mid-credits was confirmed as being a Host and it's onviously sometime in the future.

[mjwilson]

Presumably to retain any meaning to the name some part of season 3 will be in Westworld.

Tell that to Blake's Seven.

Joanna Robinson of Vanity Fair and various podcasts has speculated that the various deaths in the finale plus a move out of the park onto the mainland are both part of a cost-cutting plan by HBO.