Proper old-school FPS titles

[Beagle 2]

Traversing the entire level trying to find a keycard you somehow missed is a pain in the arse mind, but other than that, great fun.

This is the thing, when you talk about 'puzzles' in old-school FPS games it usually comes down to this. I don't think I've ever finished one except Wolfenstein 3D and maybe Quake 2 because there's inevitably a point where I'm just walking around an empty level looking for a fucking key card. That's not a puzzle. I'm playing the new Doom at the moment and it's the same deal - I like the way it's recaptured the feel of old fps games but that aspect really didn't need to be retained.

I wish some of these games would be ported across to Switch, playing Duke Nukem on my Vita was a joy. Any old games would be nice thanks hurry up now or just hack it now thanks.

[St_Eddie]

This is the thing, when you talk about 'puzzles' in old-school FPS games it usually comes down to this.

I highly recommend the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series of games, if you're looking for FPS games with well designed puzzles.  They're the thinking man's shooters.

[madhair60]

What sort of puzzles do they include? I have both games I dig them but I never put an enormous time into them. Controls seemed daunting.

[madhair60]

This is the thing, when you talk about 'puzzles' in old-school FPS games it usually comes down to this.

Not exclusively. There are also environmental hints to find secrets, looking for odd textures etc. Timed switches, that sort of thing.

[Beagle 2]

Aw man, I remember playing Jedi Knight back in the day and thinking it was probably the best thing that had ever existed, definitely want to give that another crack. Looks like I can get Jedi Knight II running on my GPD XD. There's a project for tonight.

I really loved Star Trek: Voyager – Elite Force at the time as well, must have spent hours playing the holodeck multiplayer with bots. I'd love to revisit that as well.

[madhair60]

Never tried Elite Force, always wanted a go. It's not been re-released; I think it might show up on GoG.com eventually, as the Star Trek point n' click games did relatively recently.

Jedi Knight I used to find intimidating, just how many Force powers you had at your disposal, lots of keys needed on the keyboard.

[Beagle 2]

Oh right yeah well that's not gonna work on Android then.

[madhair60]

Shadow Warrior Redux is on Android though B )

[St_Eddie]

What sort of puzzles do they include? I have both games I dig them but I never put an enormous time into them. Controls seemed daunting.

There's all sorts of environmental puzzles; climbing up through the roof panel of an elevator, in order to gain access to a ventilation system; decoding various panels and activating the relevant switches in order; that sort of thing.  That might not sound all that great but it's all down to the execution.  The games aren't dumbed down and have faith in the player to have a reasonable level of intelligence, which is always appreciated.  The Jedi Knight expansion pack, Mysteries of the Sith, had a couple of fun puzzles; dressing up as a Tuskan Raider to sneak into Jabba's palace and later on, using force pull to grab a passing guard's key, in order to escape a prison cell.

Jedi Knight I used to find intimidating, just how many Force powers you had at your disposal, lots of keys needed on the keyboard.

It's really not that intimidating.  If I recall correctly, you can cycle through the force powers and besides, for the most part; they're optional.

[Bhazor]

Just seen Strife has a remastered version.

https://www.gog.com/game/strife_veteran_edition

Though the GZDoom version is probably still better.

[madhair60]

Just seen Strife has a remastered version.

https://www.gog.com/game/strife_veteran_edition

Though the GZDoom version is probably still better.

Nah that version is ace.

St_Eddie, that all sounds brill and I think I'm gonna reinstall it tonight and give it a go.

[Beagle 2]

I don't know whether it's just new Doom that's pissing me off about puzzles, everything's red and grungey and I can't see any of the 'environmental variations' because it all just looks like a burst stomach. I even looked on YouTube to see where the secret lever was on the bit I'm on, and I still doubt I could find it amongst the mess.

Fuck it, I never liked the way Doom looked.

Shadow Warrior Redux is on Android though B )

I've never even heard of this and it looks like a great bunch of lads. I'll give that a whack for sure. Inevitably prefer it to the game I just paid £40 for.

[madhair60]

It's basically the follow up to Duke 3D and it's absolutely awesome. Pretty tough though

[BeardFaceMan]

Used to have a lot of fun with Neil playing Quake 3, is Quake Champions any cop?

[Sebastian Cobb]

I have fond memories of Kingpin, which was one of the first games I played when I first got a PC. There was a good deal of sneaking about in that one iirc, along with the ultra violence.

Kingpin was a proper game.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Painkiller is good fun, but like Serious Sam it's nothing like old FPS games. They were never just arenas full of hundreds of enemies, they were intricate mazes with puzzles and keycards.

Yeah, it's not exactly the same, but it's hardly a million miles away either. It's a couple of year since I played it, but I remember it having a strong '90s feel to it. There's no regenerating health, no cover system. It's just pedal to the heavy metal action.

[madhair60]

The comparison irritates me because a) I'm a fucking pathetic idiot and b) they're REALLY NOT similar; there's almost no level design in Serious Sam to speak of, no intricacy just vast arenas. It really, really doesn't have a classic feel and it's weird to me that it has such a reputation

[ASFTSN]

I always thought one of the main selling points for Serious Sam was that it had a lot of enemies coming at you at once - THAT'S one of the main things missing from almost all modern FPS that I have seen.  "Oh but there's a bit in Doom 4 where there's loads of imps coming at you in a locked room..."  Yeah save it mate, I'm guessing "loads" doesn't mean 50+.

[Bhazor]

The comparison irritates me because a) I'm a fucking pathetic idiot and b) they're REALLY NOT similar; there's almost no level design in Serious Sam to speak of, no intricacy just vast arenas. It really, really doesn't have a classic feel and it's weird to me that it has such a reputation

I'll agree with that for the most part though Second Encounter did have some half decent level design and enjoyably daft secrets and puzzles. It was still predominantly a chain of arenas where monsters literally just spawn out of thin air.

That's not to get it confused with Serious Sam 2. That one really shat the bed.

[ASFTSN]

This thread is making me realise that limited animation sprites will always be scarier than 3-d models in these sorts of games.  Something about the mindless nature of these enemies making their way towards you with deathly intent - it's more alarming when they're all moving in the same fashion and repeatedly uttering the same sounds.

[madhair60]

I always thought one of the main selling points for Serious Sam was that it had a lot of enemies coming at you at once - THAT'S one of the main things missing from almost all modern FPS that I have seen.  "Oh but there's a bit in Doom 4 where there's loads of imps coming at you in a locked room..."  Yeah save it mate, I'm guessing "loads" doesn't mean 50+.

I'd argue that one room of four (original) DooM monsters is more interesting than 500 Serious Sam enemies. When DooM is played on Ultra-Violence AS CHRIST INTENDED every encounter is a puzzle of priorities. Big fucking Mancubus? Ignore him, take out the little soldiers who can hit you with invisible bullets from any distance. That sort of shit. God, DooM is great.

I'll agree with that for the most part though Second Encounter did have some half decent level design and enjoyably daft secrets and puzzles. It was still predominantly a chain of arenas where monsters literally just spawn out of thin air.

That's not to get it confused with Serious Sam 2. That one really shat the bed.

Agree with you with regards to the secrets and yeah SS:2E is definitely better.

[Beagle 2]

Shadow Warrior kept crashing for me but this thread has inspired me to grab Exhumed and Duke Nukem Total Meltdown on the PS1. Looking forward to packing away the Switch for a while.

I also remembered I'd started a game of Half Life a year or so back and just had a bash on that - okay, so that's obviously a masterpiece on any level, but it strikes me how scary and atmospheric it is because the level of graphical capability at the time is perfect for the genre. All the clean lines and the unsettling warped mutants. It would look shitter and more generic now. There's just something very pleasing about the way these games looked and felt around 20 years ago.

[madhair60]

Half-Life sadly is the beginning of the end.

[Beagle 2]

Ha, yeah I thought you'd say something like that. I know what you mean. Still, it's good.

[madhair60]

Yeah. It is good. No secrets, though and only about three enemies. It's not my fave. It is good.

The last real old-school FPS was, alarmingly, Daikatana. As flawed as it was, the classic blood ran through its veins.

[St_Eddie]

Not-So-Serious Sam: Accountancy Edition.

[Lemming]

Nobody's mentioned Outlaws yet, as far as I can tell. Not only is it one of the best pre-Half-Life FPS games, it's got one of the best soundtracks in videogame history:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL-h41b1ADQ

The GoG version works great on modern Windows.

[madhair60]

Nobody's mentioned Outlaws yet, as far as I can tell. Not only is it one of the best pre-Half-Life FPS games, it's got one of the best soundtracks in videogame history:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL-h41b1ADQ

The GoG version works great on modern Windows.

I was dead excited when this came out on GoG but I wasn't thrilled with how flat it all seemed.

[Bhazor]

only about three enemies.

Oh I disagree with that.  Linear to be sure but it had a ton of variety. Vortigunts, anus dogs, the giant lobster boss, the giant spider boss, head crabs, zombies, the alien supersoldiers that fire homing bees, the molluscs, the marines, the boob assassins, the tentacle boss, the fish boss, snipers, turrets.

Now Half Life 2 on the other hand is where the rot set in. Where the cinematic experience began to take over. Half Life 2 was still good (though I'd argue its aged worse than Half Life 1) but you can trace its effect on the industry through the Call of Duty games and its misbegotten progeny.

[madhair60]

I'm misremembering Half-Life then.

I think I got to a bit where you ride a platform for a thousand hours.