The games of Donkey Kong, the gorilla

[Kelvin]

With the excellent Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze releasing on Switch next Friday (May 4th), I thought I'd start a thread about Donkey Kong, the gorilla.

Any favourite games from his storied history? Arcade, SNES platformers, modern revival, bongo racers?

Also, feel free to use this thread for any talk about Tropical Freeze, if you buy it. I've already played it through several times on Wii U, and don't need to get it again, but it's a really good game and an easy recommendation.

[Consignia]

I liked Donkey Konga. Basically a re-skinned Taiko no Tatsujin, but a load o' fun. Even if Bongos knackered your hands after a couple of songs.

[Twed]

The Game Boy one was amazing.

[biggytitbo]

Donkey Kong a Gorilla on the game and watch was good.

[Kelvin]

The original Donkey Kong the gorilla Country games have experienced a real fall from grace, haven't they? From a series considered among the best games on the SNES, to a series that seems to barely even get mentioned for it's gameplay. I mean, yes, the graphics have aged, but DKC2, in particular, has a huge amount going for it besides that; varied and interesting level design, wonderful, atmospheric soundtrack, and bursting with character. Even the difficulty curve isn't as borked as it is in the other games.   

[buzby]

The original arcade version of Donkey Kong has not been ported to the Switch, as Nintendo don't own the rights to the code. Most of Nintendo's games were developed by Ikegami (the pro broadcast equipment manufacturer) prior to them starting their own in-house development. Shigeru Miyamoto designed the characters and the game mechaics, but Ikegami developed the hardware and wrote the code. Nintendo ordered an initial 8000 units from them, and when Donkey Kong proved to be a hit had a further 80000 bootleg copies made by another manufacturer.

Nintendo wanted to release a quick sequel to cash in on it's success, and so hired their own development team to reverse engineer Ikegami's code and hardware to produce Donkey Kong Jr. This finally prompted Ikegami to sue them for breach of copyright in 1983 and resulted in a long legal battle which was settled out of court in 1990. In a further trial the following year Ikegami were judged to hold the legal copyright of the game code, so Nintendo can't release emulated versions or port it to other platforms without paying Ikegami. They usually use the NES conversion instead.

[Kelvin]

Wow, never knew any of that. Pretty remarkable, considering it's basically considered the original Nintendo hit.

[biggytitbo]

On amazing arcade facts, I never knew until the other day that Breakout was coded up by Steve Wozniak with help from Steve Jobs.

[NoSleep]

Nintendo ordered an initial 8000 units from them, and when Donkey Kong proved to be a hit had a further 80000 bootleg copies made by another manufacturer.

So that's why there's many Donkey Kong ROMs described as "bootleg". I had always assumed these were knockoffs created without Nintendo's permission.

Can't have a DK thread with mention of the current controversy over former DK champion Billy Mitchell having his all of his records stripped by Twin Galaxies and the Guinness Book Of Records for supposedly using an emulator to create his tape of the first ever DK score over a million (seen in The King Of Kong movie). Of course this matter already has a thread of its own: https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,65112.0.html

[Endicott]

I used to play DK on an arcade machine in my local Chinese takeaway, in 1983/4. 10p a go. Hours of fun.

[Bazooka]

The Game Boy one was amazing.

Yes simply called Donkey Kong, I put hours into that game yet annoyingly never completed it, some of the puzzles got the better of me. The Gameboy versions of DK country on the other hand, can't see jack shit on through the dark green monochrome graphics. DK 3DS and Tropical Freeze are brilliant as us DK 64.

[buzby]

On amazing arcade facts, I never knew until the other day that Breakout was coded up engineered by Steve Wozniak with help from and project managed by Steve Jobs.

FTFY.
Breakout's hardware is pure TTL logic - it has no processor or code.
Jobs role in the development was getting his mate Wozniak to do it during his spare time while he was working at HP, and playtesting it. Nolan Bushnell offered Jobs $750 to develop and deliver it in 4 days, and as Jobs knew nothing about electronic design he offered Wozniak $300 to actually do the development (Wozniak had already produced a Pong clone using fewer components than Atari's).

Unknown to Wozniak, Bushnell had also offered Jobs a bonus to keep the TTL chip count below 50 to keep the manufacturing costs down. Wozniak's prototype used 44 chips, so Jobs got a $5000 bonus which Wozniak knew nothing about until years later. The story basically describes Steve Jobs in a nutshell.

So that's why there's many Donkey Kong ROMs described as "bootleg". I had always assumed these were knockoffs created without Nintendo's permission.

Lots of them are actual bootlegs, which happened to every popular arcade game up until the late 90s.

The original Ikegami-supplied PCBs (marked TRS1 and TRS2) were 4-board sets (Clock, CPU, Sound and Video) .

These were mostly based on recycled unsold hardware from a Galaxian clone Ikegami had developed for Nintendo called Radar Scope (hence TRS) which had flopped. Further new 4-board sets (roughly about half the PCBs produced by Ikegami) were made marked TKG2, with the redudant hardware from Radar Scope removed. The Japanese ROM sets and the initial US ROM set (which is known in MAME as 'US Set 2') that still had the latter cheat, were delivered on 4-board PCBs.

It looks like the 'official' bootlegs started with the TKG3 PCBs, started off as 'cleaned up' 4- board sets and then developed into the TKG4 2-board PCB (rationalised by combining the Clock and Video circuitry onto 1 board and the CPU and Sound circuitry onto the other) This was apparently done by Iwasaki Engineering, who were also contracted to disassemble the game code. Nintendo made modified ROMs that eliminated the ladder cheat, changed the level order and sped up the game (this is what's known in MAME as the US set 1) to make the game harder for the US market. They also offered these updated ROMs as an upgrade set for operators with the existing 4-board PCBs. The work done by Iwasaki then went on to be used to develop DK Jr.

To further complicate matters,  being unable to keep up with demand for the game in Japan in 1981, Nintendo also licenced a company called Falcon to manufacture a clone of Donkey Kong which was called Crazy Kong (based on the early Japan DK ROMs - it's possible this licence was in exchange for help in reverse engineering Ikegami's hardware). The licence was for the Japanese market only, but these PCBs started to be exported via the grey market to Europe (distributed by Alca in the UK, Jeutel in France and Zaccaria in Italy) and the US, where they were distributed by Elcon Industries (who Nintendo of America successfully sued for copyright infringement in 1982).

The Falcon hardware was a lot less complex than the Ikegami or Iwasaki Nintendo PCBs, and so it was Crazy Kong that became the father of the many Donkey Kong bootlegs that appeared.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

The first two Donkey Kong Country games on the SNES are hardwired into my brain. Shigeru Miyamoto might disagree, but I think they're possibly the best 2D platform games ever made. Sure, they're not innoative, but the gameplay is just really solid and fluid - which may sound paradoxical, but Rare managed it. And the music is just sublime.

[Mass_Panic]

I enjoy the games of Donkey Kong Country the gorilla and co. I'm actually playing through DKC2 on my old snes at the moment and I think it holds up really well from all angles. Call me weird but I like grinding for extra lives, replaying old levels, finding secrets etc, it's really something that's missing from modern games. There is always something to do, the secrets are plentiful, well thought out and very satisfying when you find them. The gameplay is fluid and varied. Each level has been crafted with great care and attention to detail with item and enemy placement set up so that you can do cool little tricks.  The graphics back in the day destroyed just about anything else on the snes, and it's still an attractive game even today due to the strong art direction. The music is and always will be superb. They don't make em like this any more, even newer collect-a-thon type affairs like Ratchet and Clank or Uka Laylee fail to provide the instant hands on gratification you get with something like the DKC series - everything nowadays is so diluted with dialogue and cutscenes that it's sometimes hard to keep investment in the fun bits, but DKC is pure undiluted fun.

[Norton Canes]

it's no Defender.

[Replies From View]

Was this one ever bettered?

[popcorn]

The first two Donkey Kong Country games on the SNES are hardwired into my brain. Shigeru Miyamoto might disagree, but I think they're possibly the best 2D platform games ever made. Sure, they're not innoative, but the gameplay is just really solid and fluid - which may sound paradoxical, but Rare managed it. And the music is just sublime.

I'm on Shigero's side.

I loved the DKC games as a kid, played the original to completion, collected all the shit. When I revisited them as an adult I found them clunky and fiddly, and the graphics looked like a 90s tech demo. Compared to, say, the precision and beautiful art direction of Yoshi's Island. It's a classic case of how western and Japanese games just felt mysteriously different back in the day.

[Twed]

DKC and sequel are great games that deserve their place in the gaming hall of fame, but Yoshi's Island is a beautiful timeless piece of art, and with better (if less immediate) gameplay.

[Kelvin]

I'm on Shigero's side.

I loved the DKC games as a kid, played the original to completion, collected all the shit. When I revisited them as an adult I found them clunky and fiddly, and the graphics looked like a 90s tech demo. Compared to, say, the precision and beautiful art direction of Yoshi's Island. It's a classic case of how western and Japanese games just felt mysteriously different back in the day.

I certainly wouldn't describe DKC2 as clunky or fiddly. It's a fast paced, uncluttered game with responsive controls and none of the lumbering associated with controlling DK in the first game.

If anything, I'd say the series had the opposite problem; so fluid that they actually feel too easy most of the time. There's very little need for precision, so you just blaze through each level without ever soaking it in.

[biggytitbo]

FTFY.
Breakout's hardware is pure TTL logic - it has no processor or code.
Jobs role in the development was getting his mate Wozniak to do it during his spare time while he was working at HP, and playtesting it. Nolan Bushnell offered Jobs $750 to develop and deliver it in 4 days, and as Jobs knew nothing about electronic design he offered Wozniak $300 to actually do the development (Wozniak had already produced a Pong clone using fewer components than Atari's).

Unknown to Wozniak, Bushnell had also offered Jobs a bonus to keep the TTL chip count below 50 to keep the manufacturing costs down. Wozniak's prototype used 44 chips, so Jobs got a $5000 bonus which Wozniak knew nothing about until years later. The story basically describes Steve Jobs in a nutshell.

Yeah I read the Wikipedia page.

[Kelvin]

I'd forgotten how blunt (and frankly rude) that Miyamoto quote was. Dude's throwing some shade.

[buzby]

Yeah I read the Wikipedia page.

Why did you say Wozniak coded it then?

[biggytitbo]

Why did you say Wozniak coded it then?

Because I used the wrong word. It happens.

[Kelvin]

The original DKC games also feature one of the most under-rated Nintendo characters.







Knocks yer Bowsers and your Ganondorfs into a cocked hat.

[Twed]

Disagree. He's like a character from a cereal box.

[Kelvin]

Disagree. He's like a character from a cereal box.

Ha, I can absolutely see that. I just always liked him in the games. The little looks to camera, the way he plays to the crowd in DK64's only good bit (the boxing match), and the fact he likes dressing up. He even gets a Reeves and Mortimer reference in DKC3.

[Replies From View]

Is Mario being a plumber in all the Donkey Kong games?

[Twed]

Ha, I can absolutely see that. I just always liked him in the games. The little looks to camera, the way he plays to the crowd in DK64's only good bit (the boxing match), and the fact he likes dressing up. He even gets a Reeves and Mortimer reference in DKC3.

I do actually like him, but I don't think it's for reasons of quality. He's rubbish.

What's the R&M reference?

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Donkey Kong is my go to character in Mario Kart. Speaking of which - I went to the shops once with the intention of buying Mario Kart 64, only to find it sold out. I went home with Diddy Kong Racing instead. A decent enough game in its own right, but the overcomplicated design lacked the instant fun X-factor of Mario Kart.

Is Mario being a plumber in all the Donkey Kong games?

I believe he was a carpenter in the first one. Although he was called Jumpman, not Mario.

[darby o chill]

The TI-99/4A port of original DK was lovely. It had the pie factory level that was missing from other machines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs6Q7s_ev8A