Broadband & phone - who's good/cheap these days?

[olliebean]

Plusnet are putting up their prices next month, giving me a chance to get out of my contract and maybe find something cheaper, but I find most non-fibre broadband (including line rental) is around the 30 quid/month price point now, which is a massive hike since the last time I shopped around and a fair bit more than I'd ideally like to pay. (Fibre not an option here yet, apart from Virgin which is too expensive, but I get good speeds on ADSL so probably wouldn't pay much more for it anyway.)

Obviously most providers have deals for new customers, but those will run out eventually and in the meantime it's a pain having to switch every year or two (and not knowing if I'm going to get the same good speed from the new one). But I see First Utility are doing it for £18.99 and promising not to raise the price at the end of the contract, which seems - compared to all the rest - too good to be true; surely there's a catch?

Any other suggestions? Comments? Ways - other than Virgin, which costs too much - to get broadband without paying £15-20 for bloody line rental when I never use the phone?

[Sebastian Cobb]

Have you checked the prices of Virgin recently? Their broadband only option is £27 a month, which is about the same as a lot of providers when you've factored in line rental.

Virgin offer broadband only without line rental, or at least it's bundled into the cost; unless you do choose to go with Virgin you're not going to escape the fact someone is going to be paying BT for using the copper and passing the cost onto you somehow.

Also moneysupermarket is usually good for this sort of thing, and can put you on to cashback offers which can lower the cost quite a bit over the course of 12 months or whatever.

https://www.moneysupermarket.com/broadband/

[canadagoose]

Plusnet are putting up their prices next month, giving me a chance to get out of my contract and maybe find something cheaper, but I find most non-fibre broadband (including line rental) is around the 30 quid/month price point now, which is a massive hike since the last time I shopped around and a fair bit more than I'd ideally like to pay. (Fibre not an option here yet, apart from Virgin which is too expensive, but I get good speeds on ADSL so probably wouldn't pay much more for it anyway.)

Obviously most providers have deals for new customers, but those will run out eventually and in the meantime it's a pain having to switch every year or two (and not knowing if I'm going to get the same good speed from the new one). But I see First Utility are doing it for £18.99 and promising not to raise the price at the end of the contract, which seems - compared to all the rest - too good to be true; surely there's a catch?

Any other suggestions? Comments? Ways - other than Virgin, which costs too much - to get broadband without paying £15-20 for bloody line rental when I never use the phone?

I think the problem is that, regardless of whether you pay line rental or not, you'll still pay about the same thing for the package. Companies don't often split it out any more in their advertised price - I think that might have been due to some kind of ruling - so it should be quite easy to compare.

Apparently the Post Office have a deal where it's £17 per month (in total) for a standard ADSL connection - would you consider them? Link

Have you checked the prices of Virgin recently? Their broadband only option is £27 a month, which is about the same as a lot of providers when you've factored in line rental.

Virgin are quite reasonable for what you get. I hear they've upped their minimum speed to 100Mb/sec in some areas, too, which is faster than the various Openreach FTTC offerings in most areas.

[olliebean]

Have you checked the prices of Virgin recently? Their broadband only option is £27 a month, which is about the same as a lot of providers when you've factored in line rental.

Yes, rising to £40 after a year iirc, which means it would only be a temporary solution. And non-fibre is generally under 20 quid for the first 12-18 months, which still makes Virgin comparatively expensive if I'm not that bothered about the extra speed.

I notice that since they've been obliged to include the line rental in their headline prices, most providers seem to be hiding the fact that their price rises massively after the minimum term. Very difficult in some cases to find out what the real, post-discount price is. The Post Office is easier than most - it's £29 after the first 18 months.

[Ham Bap]

I'm on BT at the minute, have been for years. I think it's a bit expensive at the minute, also with BT Sport thrown in.
I don't wanna change though as it rarely ever goes down and I need it to be constant for working from home.

Does anyone know if they ever give offers/discounts, the same as Sky does?
I know i can probably google it myself, also just wondering if anyone has tried/failed and moved providers then their broadband has gone to shit.

TBH I'm also wary of changing as once you're locked into a contract with another provider they do the same an keep raising prices.

[Ignatius_S]

As mentioned below, in order to keep bills down, you'll need to negotiate when your contract is up or nearing it.

In case anyone needs/wants to negotiate with a current provider, the following are a few tips from a friend connected to the industry:

Research what deals competitors have on to get a realistic idea of what your provider should be trying to match/out-do and – importantly – can be used below:

When calling, say you want to leave - you should be put through the retention team, who can offer the best deals to get you to stay.

Reject the first offer – standard practice is to offer you something and if that doesn't work, offer more.

Don't just reject that offer, feign complete disinterest – if they think you're actually serious about leaving, the follow-up offer will be more. If you're seen to be wavering or they twig that you're trying to get a better deal, that follow-up offer will be less impressive.

If for any reason, they say 'okay then... bye', call back later and say you've changed your mind. As with signing up for a service, when calling to say you want to end it, there's a cooling off period in which you can change your mind – pretty sure it's 14 days, but check!

Yes, rising to £40 after a year iirc, which means it would only be a temporary solution. And non-fibre is generally under 20 quid for the first 12-18 months, which still makes Virgin comparatively expensive if I'm not that bothered about the extra speed....

Pretty much all providers jack up the price after 12 or 18 months – the ones that don't, tend to be ones that aren't competing on price.

Unfortunately, the reality is that if you want to keep the bill down, you need to contact them and negotiate or leave, as soon as you've served your minimum contract. These days it's somewhat better I would say, as the sweetheart initial deals tend to last for the minimum contract, whereas it was once quite common for it to be for the first 12 months of a 18 month contract.

Incidentally, the Virgin deal you're referring to rises to £33 per month – I've been researching prices recently as need to switch or threaten to. Unfortunately, I haven't been looking for really cheap deals so can't flag any to you – I've had my fingers burnt before when there were technical faults, so steer of those now.

[Ignatius_S]

...Does anyone know if they ever give offers/discounts, the same as Sky does?
I know i can probably google it myself, also just wondering if anyone has tried/failed and moved providers then their broadband has gone to shit....

Short answer: look at the above and also google it.

You will be able to haggle with BT but would strongly advise looking online to see what people's experiences are. Not all providers are the same with this. 

Sky is a provider that people have a *lot* of success when haggling – pretty sure I read something a while ago that suggested it was the best provider to do this with. Virgin is pretty good but I think BT isn't as much – it isn't that it won't offer a better deal, but IIRC, tends to be less generous.

One reason that it's worth googling is that you should be able to get an idea about how people have been finding this recently. Also, as I say, you really need to get an idea of what deals there are.

As I say, there is a cooling off period if you cancel, so even if you do 'leave', you reverse that. Also, when negotiating, you can obviously just say that you need to think about it, rather than actually going through with it.

Re: service getting worse if you move provider – just do your homework before switching. As mentioned above, I've had problems but the main issue I had was when support was just terrible – one cheap provider I had (EE) was, IIRC, actually pretty good but the support was shocking. However, from what you've said, that sounds like a last resort and no one wants you go.

[olliebean]

Incidentally, the Virgin deal you're referring to rises to £33 per month – I've been researching prices recently as need to switch or threaten to. Unfortunately, I haven't been looking for really cheap deals so can't flag any to you – I've had my fingers burnt before when there were technical faults, so steer of those now.

Fair dos, I looked it up yesterday but misremembered - it's the one with the phone line that rises to £40. £33 is still more than a non-fibre connection including line rental elsewhere, though.

Have been looking around and seen quite a lot of complaints about low speeds with First Utility, so I guess you pay in other ways for not having an automatic post-contract price hike. Very annoying that it's gone up so much in the last few years, though. I'd have thought it ought to be one of the things that's getting cheaper as technology improves. Still, maybe I can use the FU price as leverage to haggle a lower price from Plusnet.

[Captain Crunch]

MSE update broadband deals once a week, £10.24 a month is the current lowest price:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/phones/cheap-broadband

[olliebean]

MSE update broadband deals once a week, £10.24 a month is the current lowest price:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/phones/cheap-broadband

Thanks, that includes £75 cashback though which I wouldn't get as an existing customer even if I can haggle the price down. (Incidentally that article is out of date - Plusnet's price for new customers has already gone up by £1/month.) Sky is next at £13.33, again though as a previous customer I doubt I'd get the incentives (and I don't really want a £50 M&S voucher anyway). And both those rise to 30 quid after a year. EE is next - not going to touch them with a bargepole, the customer feedback is dreadful.

I reckon my best bet is to try to haggle Plusnet or Sky down to about 20 quid a month for a year or two. Then do the whole thing all over again when that ends. <sigh>

[Sebastian Cobb]

As mentioned below, in order to keep bills down, you'll need to negotiate when your contract is up or nearing it.

In case anyone needs/wants to negotiate with a current provider, the following are a few tips from a friend connected to the industry:

Research what deals competitors have on to get a realistic idea of what your provider should be trying to match/out-do and – importantly – can be used below:

When calling, say you want to leave - you should be put through the retention team, who can offer the best deals to get you to stay.

Reject the first offer – standard practice is to offer you something and if that doesn't work, offer more.

Don't just reject that offer, feign complete disinterest – if they think you're actually serious about leaving, the follow-up offer will be more. If you're seen to be wavering or they twig that you're trying to get a better deal, that follow-up offer will be less impressive.

If for any reason, they say 'okay then... bye', call back later and say you've changed your mind. As with signing up for a service, when calling to say you want to end it, there's a cooling off period in which you can change your mind – pretty sure it's 14 days, but check!

Pretty much all providers jack up the price after 12 or 18 months – the ones that don't, tend to be ones that aren't competing on price.

Unfortunately, the reality is that if you want to keep the bill down, you need to contact them and negotiate or leave, as soon as you've served your minimum contract. These days it's somewhat better I would say, as the sweetheart initial deals tend to last for the minimum contract, whereas it was once quite common for it to be for the first 12 months of a 18 month contract.

Incidentally, the Virgin deal you're referring to rises to £33 per month – I've been researching prices recently as need to switch or threaten to. Unfortunately, I haven't been looking for really cheap deals so can't flag any to you – I've had my fingers burnt before when there were technical faults, so steer of those now.

I hate the modern world, resort to the really undignified act of haggling or know you're getting mugged off.

The thing I resent about this sort of thing is all this takes time. Something you'll never ever get back.

[Ham Bap]

Short answer: look at the above and also google it.

You will be able to haggle with BT but would strongly advise looking online to see what people's experiences are. Not all providers are the same with this. 

Sky is a provider that people have a *lot* of success when haggling – pretty sure I read something a while ago that suggested it was the best provider to do this with. Virgin is pretty good but I think BT isn't as much – it isn't that it won't offer a better deal, but IIRC, tends to be less generous.

One reason that it's worth googling is that you should be able to get an idea about how people have been finding this recently. Also, as I say, you really need to get an idea of what deals there are.

As I say, there is a cooling off period if you cancel, so even if you do 'leave', you reverse that. Also, when negotiating, you can obviously just say that you need to think about it, rather than actually going through with it.

Re: service getting worse if you move provider – just do your homework before switching. As mentioned above, I've had problems but the main issue I had was when support was just terrible – one cheap provider I had (EE) was, IIRC, actually pretty good but the support was shocking. However, from what you've said, that sounds like a last resort and no one wants you go.

Sounds good, thanks for the tips. I usually take a good look at MoneySaving Expert forums but that's usually for Sky TV (reduced my bill by 50% for 2 years) but I can live without Sky TV so I really can leave them.
Need broadband for working from home. So always thought m6 bargaining position was weaker from the off.
But I read your advice and it sounds good.

[olliebean]

Incidentally, regarding haggling, this seems like a very useful article: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/haggle-your-broadband-existing-customer-tips

[Sebastian Cobb]

Money supermarket has good advice but I do fear that quite a few people on it are so parsimonious they place literally no value in their own time.

[Huxleys Babkins]

Haggling never really got me anywhere. I've spent the last few years switching back and forth from BT and Plusnet, swapping once the minimum term is up and the introductory offer is over. The good thing is that PlusNet is a subsidiary of BT so you can use the SmartHub on both after changing a couple of settings and sell any new hardware they send you on Ebay. I've made about £100 selling Plusnet routers and BT Home/SmartHubs so far.

Additional top tip; If you have Sky TV, try to cancel and they'll offer you 40% off to stay with them. Refuse. As your last month ticks down, they'll bombard you with phonecalls, each with an offer more tempting than the last. If you let your service lapse, they'll offer to set you back up for 70% off. A friend of mine managed to haggle a lifetime discount of 76% after refusing the 70%. Just make sure you set your account preference to allow them to make marketing phone calls to you or else they can't legally call you.

[Ignatius_S]

Fair dos, I looked it up yesterday but misremembered - it's the one with the phone line that rises to £40. £33 is still more than a non-fibre connection including line rental elsewhere, though.

Have been looking around and seen quite a lot of complaints about low speeds with First Utility, so I guess you pay in other ways for not having an automatic post-contract price hike. Very annoying that it's gone up so much in the last few years, though. I'd have thought it ought to be one of the things that's getting cheaper as technology improves. Still, maybe I can use the FU price as leverage to haggle a lower price from Plusnet.

Hee – actually, after I posted, I thought I might have been mixing them up!

Yeah, I would say the FU one is good to be able to quote but would have something up your sleeve.

I hate the modern world, resort to the really undignified act of haggling or know you're getting mugged off.

The thing I resent about this sort of thing is all this takes time. Something you'll never ever get back.

Couldn't agree more – especially about time.

Re: MS comment below – yes and also, I think there's a tendency there to just look at the price and exclude other factors.

Sounds good, thanks for the tips. I usually take a good look at MoneySaving Expert forums but that's usually for Sky TV (reduced my bill by 50% for 2 years) but I can live without Sky TV so I really can leave them.
Need broadband for working from home. So always thought m6 bargaining position was weaker from the off.
But I read your advice and it sounds good.

No problem! Definitely worth a go – you have nothing to lose and these days, companies are far more concerned about customer retention.

I did mean to mention that my mate said that if you're trying to negotiate a bundle package, then deals are usually better than for just one service.

[Ignatius_S]

Fair dos, I looked it up yesterday but misremembered - it's the one with the phone line that rises to £40. £33 is still more than a non-fibre connection including line rental elsewhere, though.

Have been looking around and seen quite a lot of complaints about low speeds with First Utility, so I guess you pay in other ways for not having an automatic post-contract price hike. Very annoying that it's gone up so much in the last few years, though. I'd have thought it ought to be one of the things that's getting cheaper as technology improves. Still, maybe I can use the FU price as leverage to haggle a lower price from Plusnet.

Hee – actually, after I posted, I thought I might have been mixing them up!

Yeah, I would say the FU one is good to be able to quote but would have something up your sleeve.

I hate the modern world, resort to the really undignified act of haggling or know you're getting mugged off.

The thing I resent about this sort of thing is all this takes time. Something you'll never ever get back.

Couldn't agree more – especially about time.

Re: MS comment below – yes and also, I think there's a tendency there to just look at the price and exclude other factors.

Sounds good, thanks for the tips. I usually take a good look at MoneySaving Expert forums but that's usually for Sky TV (reduced my bill by 50% for 2 years) but I can live without Sky TV so I really can leave them.
Need broadband for working from home. So always thought m6 bargaining position was weaker from the off.
But I read your advice and it sounds good.

No problem! Definitely worth a go – you have nothing to lose and these days, companies are far more concerned about customer retention.

I did mean to mention that my mate said that if you're trying to negotiate a bundle package, then deals are usually better than for just one service.

[olliebean]

I've spent the last few years switching back and forth from BT and Plusnet, swapping once the minimum term is up and the introductory offer is over.

Oh - do they give you the introductory offer again each time, then? I assumed they were for new customers only, i.e., not applicable if you've previously been a customer. That'll make things easier if I can go back to a tried and trusted supplier and still get the deal.

[shiftwork2]

I never usually respond to cold calls but Vodafone tried it on a few months back and, after months of trouble with BT whose wonderful solutions were 'upgrade' or 'buy new HomeHub fourteen months after you last bought one', I just agreed to a new package there and then.  It's £20 (down from £42) and solved my problems at a stroke.  I got a couple of quid off for having a mobile contract but, even so, fuck right off BT.

[Huxleys Babkins]

Oh - do they give you the introductory offer again each time, then? I assumed they were for new customers only, i.e., not applicable if you've previously been a customer. That'll make things easier if I can go back to a tried and trusted supplier and still get the deal.

You're treated as a new customer again once you've not been with them for 12 months. That may vary depending on provider but is absolutely the case with BT and Plusnet.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Re: Virgin, aren't their best contracts very long? Not much use if a) you are renting b) it turns out to be shite

[olliebean]

In case anyone's interested, I ended up going with Sky for £18/month for the first year, which with cashback and rewards will work out to £8/month. The best Plusnet were willing to offer me was £22, which is 2 quid more than their new customers pay. Wouldn't it be great if any of these buggers offered a loyalty discount, instead of a loyalty surcharge? Their entire business model seems to be based on hoping customers won't notice when the price goes up at the end of their contract.

[Malcy]

Moving in to a new place in the next couple of weeks so had a look at CompareTheMarket.com for deals. There was 260 odd deals available to me. Cashbacks, gift cards etc. Was too much choice. Just want a good decent speed, and no grassing me up for downloading. Not bothered about phone or TV.

Currently at the folks using Plus Net. I can get just over 4 mbps on a well seeded torrent which suits me fine. Noticed a lot of them have fair usage or caps which i don't want at all.