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Roy Chubby Brown - Disconnecting Desolation (Seeking advice)

Started by Big Mclargehuge, May 08, 2018, 02:49:07 PM

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rm2kmaster

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on May 10, 2018, 08:00:42 AM
As numerous other discussions on the forum prove, there's an awful lot of us that would say exactly the same thing about Sadowitz...

Yes, generally cunts who have never seen him.


Shit Good Nose

Quote from: rm2kmaster on May 10, 2018, 11:43:12 AM
Yes, generally cunts who have never seen him.

Nope - there's plenty of us on here who have seen him, more than once, that think it.



checkoutgirl

Quote from: Big Mclargehuge on May 08, 2018, 03:54:54 PM
I wouldnt want to be in the same street as him when he's in a bad mood

Oh definitely, I believe he's been done for assault on a woman over some parking disagreement. He's of the ilk that won't allow swearing or blue language around the wife in one breath while slagging off Pakis in the other. He's not what I'd call a deep thinker or philosopher and I'm not sure what value you'd get from doing an in depth documentary on him. He's probably pretty shallow, from a rough background who did well for himself in the stand up game. A bit like Bernard Manning.

Sometimes intelligent people make the mistake of looking for unknown depths to a person that were never there in the first place. Have you ever seen an interview with Manning? If he had any hidden depths they were very well concealed.

Twed

I don't think he deserves the "he's just a product of his time" excuse. Plenty of people his age have not used their platform to spread racial hatred, worsened by appending it with "can't you take a joke?" because he's dehumanised his targets so much that he thinks "Muslim women are so ugly they have to cover their faces, but at least there's somewhere to wipe your cock after a blowjob" is no more hurtful than yelling "you fat bastard!" to a close white friend.

Being a product of your time means giggling at a blue joke, not composing elaborate songs about how brown people should all fuck off home and performing them to crowds of white people.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Twed on May 10, 2018, 02:20:20 PM
I don't think he deserves the "he's just a product of his time" excuse. Plenty of people his age have not used their platform to spread racial hatred, worsened by appending it with "can't you take a joke?" because he's dehumanised his targets so much that he thinks "Muslim women are so ugly they have to cover their faces, but at least there's somewhere to wipe your cock after a blowjob" is no more hurtful than yelling "you fat bastard!" to a close white friend.

Being a product of your time means giggling at a blue joke, not composing elaborate songs about how brown people should all fuck off home and performing them to crowds of white people.

Absolutely spot on, mate.

Big Mclargehuge

Quote from: ollyboro on May 09, 2018, 12:46:10 PM
If you want to find out how much (or more likely - how little) Chubby's humour has evolved, try tracking down some of his old c90 tapes. Back in the late 80's there were loads of them getting passed around pubs and classrooms. I'm assuming they were all bootlegs from assorted club dates, but the audio quality was fine. I'm sure some will still exist, perhaps in CD form.

Hey thanks for the suggestion man, I may try and have a scout out for them...though in all fairness I dont know how long my tolerence for this kind of stuff could hold up xD I may just look into a broader spectrum of his work and see how signficant (If any) the changes are...

Quote from: Phoenix Lazarus on May 09, 2018, 01:16:30 PM
It was just before that, at the 2001 election, that the BNP started a brief renaissance in significance.  You had the riots in northern England, which were seen as race riots, at that time too.  The far-right hadn't been relevant for twenty years prior, since the National Front vanished into obscurity at the end of the 70s.

Ahh so it may then be the cas that he was somewhat of a accelerant than a trend starter...though its interesting to know he was doing race based stuff earlier than september 11th 2001...I suppose in many ways that incident just allowed him more wriggle space to be able to do it...

Quote from: Hecate on May 10, 2018, 04:30:03 AM
It's intent, innit? You can smell it. A comedian can't fake it.
Are you sure you have Jimmy Carr in the right column?

Sadowitz doesn't punch up or down, he punches 360 degrees and then punches himself for good measure.
It's a cathartic release for everyone in the audience.

I don't think I've ever seen Jimmy Carr do anything self deprecating, I've never seen him having a go at the middle class or the autistic. He always just stands there in his starchy suit and slicked back hair, going on about charvas and barking like the kings favourite seal, wet-eye and flabby on fish.

Chubby Brown is a northern working man's club comic. He writes some of his own material but he's mostly just telling you jokes you've already heard down the pub.

He had warmth and good delivery, that's how he became popular. The punchline to a sexist gag would often be how fat and sexually inept he was.

Unfortunately, he seems to be getting defiantly more racist as he gets older, maybe the instant-bonding you get from having a shared enemy is just too good to pass up when you're less than sure about your material. Playing to your uneducated audiences worst base instincts, singing a song about gollywogs and riding that wave of good will is easier than explaining to each person individually that you don't do refunds.

I feel like now might be the best time to mention that I'm from oop north and not that well educated myself.

I think it's safe to say that the league of gentlemen wouldn't dare name a town after him nowadays, let's put it that way.

I agree with this as well, I think the intent of the comedian is as important as the jokes he's saying...though that links back into what I was saying about getting the audience on side...if you can give them the trust that what your saying isnt in bad faith you can pretty much say what you like...with Boyle that trust is there, with Chubby it just isnt...and this isnt helped by the fact that as you say, as time goes on he seems to be embracing racism more and more...


Big Mclargehuge

Quote from: checkoutgirl on May 10, 2018, 01:44:23 PM
Oh definitely, I believe he's been done for assault on a woman over some parking disagreement. He's of the ilk that won't allow swearing or blue language around the wife in one breath while slagging off Pakis in the other. He's not what I'd call a deep thinker or philosopher and I'm not sure what value you'd get from doing an in depth documentary on him. He's probably pretty shallow, from a rough background who did well for himself in the stand up game. A bit like Bernard Manning.

Sometimes intelligent people make the mistake of looking for unknown depths to a person that were never there in the first place. Have you ever seen an interview with Manning? If he had any hidden depths they were very well concealed.

Well if that parking incidents true thats definately not on really, I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head here...I mainly chose chubby as a starting point purely because of a mixture of just how dire the tape I'd got of his was coupled with the understanding that the character and the person were allegedly quite seperate entities. Though the more this discussion is going on the more its becoming very quickly apparent that the character and the person are effectively cut from the same cloth...

Im thinking at this point of developing the documentary a bit more into a a broader piece. I was originally hoping to keep it self contained just covering the tape I got my hands on and maybe expanding out to talk more in depth about "Edgey" comedy and why Chubbys style isnt challenging...its just boring...but I feel this threads opened up a bit of an exchange on offense and comedy which I think I might be able to more broadly cover...that and equally it seems to be the growing case that Chubby in and of himself is actually just a rather sad case honestly...

Quote from: Twed on May 10, 2018, 02:20:20 PM
I don't think he deserves the "he's just a product of his time" excuse. Plenty of people his age have not used their platform to spread racial hatred, worsened by appending it with "can't you take a joke?" because he's dehumanised his targets so much that he thinks "Muslim women are so ugly they have to cover their faces, but at least there's somewhere to wipe your cock after a blowjob" is no more hurtful than yelling "you fat bastard!" to a close white friend.

Being a product of your time means giggling at a blue joke, not composing elaborate songs about how brown people should all fuck off home and performing them to crowds of white people.

I mentioned something to this effect on the last page but your absolutely right. Racism and homophobia have no justification. whether your a teenager, a older person or a stand up comedian doing sell out shows every night. The joke you quote there is  perfect example of why those kind of routines should be challenged not cheered. Though that does rather raise the question who is worse Chubby for saying it or the hundreds of people who applaud it?

Chubby says he went extreme because some agent or promoter told him years ago it would be more likely to guarantee him a steady living than being a family act.

Twed

Quote from: Big Mclargehuge on May 10, 2018, 03:41:50 PM

I mentioned something to this effect on the last page but your absolutely right. Racism and homophobia have no justification. whether your a teenager, a older person or a stand up comedian doing sell out shows every night. The joke you quote there is  perfect example of why those kind of routines should be challenged not cheered. Though that does rather raise the question who is worse Chubby for saying it or the hundreds of people who applaud it?
And I would probably be raked over the coals for it if I posted this on Twitter or something, but there definitely are degrees of racism. Your old man telling a 70s joke in the pub pales in comparison to the evil of using your platform to spread racial hatred, which is what Chubby does.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Twed on May 10, 2018, 05:40:24 PM
Your old man telling a 70s joke in the pub pales in comparison to the evil of using your platform to spread racial hatred, which is what Chubby does.


ieXush2i

Quote from: Sherman Krank on May 08, 2018, 10:04:29 PM
I've heard rumors that Al Murray may not be the lefty luvvy he seems. To be fair to Murray he came up at a time  when the entire UK standup circuit was controlled by Ben Elton. If Ben didn't like your politics, you didn't work.

In fact it's only fairly recently that comedians like Simon Evans, Geoff Norcott and Ben Elton have felt able to come out of the closet and be openly right wing.

What? Elton wasn't on the circuit when Murray - who was in the Oxford Revue - started. Am I missing a clever satirical joke here?

Quote from: Sherman Krank on May 08, 2018, 10:04:29 PM
To be fair to Murray he came up at a time  when the entire UK standup circuit was controlled by Ben Elton. If Ben didn't like your politics, you didn't work.

So Ben Elton owned every comedy venue in the UK at one point.  You learn something new every day.

ollyboro

Quote from: Phoenix Lazarus on May 10, 2018, 07:03:46 PM
So Ben Elton owned every comedy venue in the UK at one point.  You learn something new every day.

Typical Jew. (Ben Elton, not you. Although you could be as well for all I know.)

JesusAndYourBush

Quote from: ollyboro on May 09, 2018, 12:46:10 PM
If you want to find out how much (or more likely - how little) Chubby's humour has evolved, try tracking down some of his old c90 tapes. Back in the late 80's there were loads of them getting passed around pubs and classrooms. I'm assuming they were all bootlegs from assorted club dates, but the audio quality was fine. I'm sure some will still exist, perhaps in CD form.

Sometime around 1987 I had a bootleg tape of one of his shows.  Sound quality was ok.  Part-way through it stopped and one of the people who copied the tape could be heard saying "recoooord?" before it resumed.  Also at one point the sound got muffled, like someone had put their coat over the microphone.  A drummer played him off at the end, and an Emcee made some sort of announcement.

The comedy itself was the sort of rude jokes people would tell each other in the pub, etc...  and as it was recorded in a pub or club it was the appropriate setting for those jokes.  One of the jokes was the one about a couple about to have sex and the bloke isn't sure what to do so he gets his friend to hide in the wardrobe to whisper advice.  Yes, jokes of that calibre!  I'd heard it some years earlier from a school friend.

I don't have the tape any more.  I'm curious to hear it again if my description rings any bells, if only to see if it was as bad as I remember.

Quote from: ollyboro on May 10, 2018, 07:14:57 PM
Typical Jew. (Ben Elton, not you. Although you could be as well for all I know.)

I'm actually not, but my actual Christian name is that of an Old Testament Biblical Jew.

mr beepbap

You should definitely read his autobiography  which is excellent. 
Great on the brutal world of 'clubland' which he came from and shaped his act. He comes across as feeling a bit limited by his audience now and back on the club circuit who would heckle acts trying something new with " Tell us jokes we know".  There's a bit where he says something about how it was pointless doing topical jokes in places where they wouldn't have known the Titanic had sunk. Great stories about getting "paid off" i.e. not getting paid if the club steward didn't like you. Or how on a bill with a friend , the friend went on first and did his full act verbatim , leaving him no option than to just go home. Today's Eternal Student  wankers wouldn't have lasted a second

ollyboro

Quote from: Phoenix Lazarus on May 10, 2018, 07:19:54 PM
I'm actually not, but my actual Christian name is that of an Old Testament Biblical Jew.
Nebuchadnezzar?

Quote from: mr beepbap on May 10, 2018, 07:39:51 PM
You should definitely read his autobiography  which is excellent. 
Great on the brutal world of 'clubland' which he came from and shaped his act. He comes across as feeling a bit limited by his audience now and back on the club circuit who would heckle acts trying something new with " Tell us jokes we know".  There's a bit where he says something about how it was pointless doing topical jokes in places where they wouldn't have known the Titanic had sunk. Great stories about getting "paid off" i.e. not getting paid if the club steward didn't like you. Or how on a bill with a friend , the friend went on first and did his full act verbatim , leaving him no option than to just go home. Today's Eternal Student  wankers wouldn't have lasted a second

I read that too.  His Borstal sentence seemed good training for such a brutal, cutthroat world, with his account of how he worked his way up the youth prison hierarchy by beating up people higher and higher up it-assuming that actually happened, and it wasn't just a bit of embellishment on his part.


Zetetic


Isnt Anything

Quote from: Hecate on May 10, 2018, 04:30:03 AMI don't think I've ever seen Jimmy Carr do anything self deprecating

in recent weeks ive developed an unfortunate addiction to 8 Out of 10 Cats Does Countdown and to be fair he does tell jokes against his own penis size and also i think his own sexual performance. but thats about it. the only stand up of his i ever saw was pretty horrible.

Btw re that Muslim joke up there i frowned hugely at the 'all so ugly' part but laughed out loud at the 'wipe your knob' bit, does that make me a bad person ?

St_Eddie

Jimmy Carr also occasionally does his "I was caught out for tax avoidance" shtick.  However, he always delivers it in a "aren't I a lovable scamp?" way.  Tosser.  The audience always laps it up in a "yes, you are a loveable scamp" way.  Tossers.

Quote from: St_Eddie on May 10, 2018, 09:45:54 PM
Jimmy Carr also occasionally does his "I was caught out for tax avoidance" shtick.  However, he always delivers it in a "aren't I a lovable scamp?" way.  Tosser.  The audience always laps it up in a "yes, you are a loveable scamp" way.  Tossers.

So did Ken Dodd.

thenoise

I loved that 'who the fuck is alice' song when I was 12.  By the time I saw his stand up though I had grown up a bit, and it just seemed like a load of old swearing (not in a good way).

He's a grafter though, writes a new set every year and tours constantly, releases a new video every Christmas, etc. Jim Davidson as everyone always compares him to is lazy as fuck, and can't write silly songs either (obligatory link to that 'hello' clip). And Sadowitz pads out his 10 minutes of new material with his old jokes going back to the 80s.  I'm quite sure that Chubby would stop the racist jokes next week if his audience stopped loving them (and it's quite a small part of his act anyway from what I have seen), he just does what works and it seems to keep him in work and touring, which is probably all that matters. I don't think he sees himself as an artist.

I'm curious to know what The League ever saw in him, that they wanted to include him in their TV show. I presume they were fans? I don't see much Chubb influence.

yesitsme

I wouldn't mind so much but he doesn't actually tell jokes or say anything that could be considered 'funny', at least Manning could do that.  He starts off a story, say.. driving up the M1 and then just starts banging on about how it 'gets dark early' going past certain towns. Riiiiight...and your punchline is....?

He doesn't need one because he's got a room full of knuckle heads already laughing at that concept.  All he then needs to do is say his wife's fanny stinks and he's not gay and he's getting a standing ovation.

I'm sure every comic in the land would love to have found 'their' audience in the way Chubby has.

He isn't half rich.

I'm glad he got the shit kicked out of him in Bradford (or is that any urban myth?) but it always puzzled me how people who can tell you to 'toughen up' and 'it's just a joke' get so het up when the jokes about them and their families.

Although making fun of people dying in a fire is pretty fucked up.

Wha-hay!  It's Chubby!  YOU FAT BASTARD! YOU FAT BASTARD! and so on...

Autopsy Turvey

Quote from: Big Mclargehuge on May 10, 2018, 03:41:50 PM
Though that does rather raise the question who is worse Chubby for saying it or the hundreds of people who applaud it?

It also raises the even more crucial question: what would we do with those laughing people? Bernard Manning used to have a minor catchphrase: "They can't stop us laughing." Even if you scrutinise the context and intent of the joke teller (as the judge in the Nazi Dog case failed to do), how do we do the same for the people reacting, who give the joke currency?

Quote from: yesitsme on May 11, 2018, 10:46:01 AM
I wouldn't mind so much but he doesn't actually tell jokes or say anything that could be considered 'funny', at least Manning could do that. 


I'll compare jokes I recall by Chubby and Manning, respectively, off the top of my head.

Chubby:

"They reckon you can't call a corner shop a p**i shop, these days.  How 'bout that then? Not allowed to say p**i shop now......(long pause).........They'll Be sayin' next you can't call an Asian a fookin' p**i bastard!"

Manning:

"My grandfather was an unorthodox Jew-he was a Nazi."

(To a black man) "'ello there, sittin' in the shadows.  Didn't see you till you just smiled.  Thought someone'd brought a grand piano in."