Being terminally single

[MoonDust]

Buelligan hasn't paid me to post this, but I think the article in the OP is good evidence that most relationships are social-status bullshit. You get a rush out of being in a relationship for the same reason that you get a rush out of a high-paying job; because you are fulfilling society's benchmarks.

I think genuine love is an amazing but very rare thing, and probably 98% of people even in ostensibly "happy" relationships would be better off alone.

Perhaps, I guess that deserves an entirely separate discussion by itself, which would be interesting. For me though, I'm talking more loneliness in the broader sense. Not having people to talk to or hang out with, not simply being single.

If someone can hack the lonesome, semi-hermit life in that broader sense, then fair play. For most people though being that lonely can be seriously damaging to their mental health, particularly if they're in such an isolated situation and they didn't choose to be in that situation.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Except my post didn't once mention society's expectations but the bloke from the article says that factor compounded his unhappiness rather than created it. What created it was having biological desire, a need for companionship and intimacy and feeling incapable of ever managing it. That other people around were managing this would inevitably cause feelings of inadequacy.

That's importantly more nuanced than newbridge's broad brush appraisal.

We know 98% of humans wouldn't be better off alone as humans are social animals and have inherent urges as well as environment-driven neuroses.

[MoonDust]

Except my post didn't once mention society's expectations but the bloke from the article says that factor compounded his unhappiness rather than created it. What created it was having biological desire, a need for companionship and intimacy and feeling incapable of ever managing it. That other people around were managing this would inevitably cause feelings of inadequacy.

That's importantly more nuanced than newbridge's broad brush appraisal.

True.

[AllisonSays]

Buelligan hasn't paid me to post this, but I think the article in the OP is good evidence that most relationships are social-status bullshit. You get a rush out of being in a relationship for the same reason that you get a rush out of a high-paying job; because you are fulfilling society's benchmarks.

I think genuine love is an amazing but very rare thing, and probably 98% of people even in ostensibly "happy" relationships would be better off alone.

I really, really strongly disagree with this, though. 'Genuine love' absolutely doesn't exist; it's always an effort of thought and body to attach your life to someone else's. It's true that making that effort sometimes fucks couples up and the relationship becomes something to hurt each other with, but even then ... Actually, I do sometimes think compulsory monogamy is kind of a damaging social norm. Maybe I agree with the benchmark bit but not the genuine love bit. Gotta have a coffee.

[Paul Calf]

You get a rush out of being in a relationship for the same reason that you get a rush out of a high-paying job; because you are fulfilling society's benchmarks.

I really, really strongly disagree with this, though. 'Genuine love' absolutely doesn't exist;

This really is bleak as fuck, that real adults think this way. But whatever makes you feel alive, I suppose.

[AllisonSays]

Maybe I wasn't clear. I've been in several long term relationships, I'm in one now - in all of them I've been 'in love', with different degrees of maturity and seriousness. If I believed in this rare and occasional bird called 'genuine love' I'd need to retroactively think that only my feelings now are real and that they weren't in the past, for other women - or else that I've been wildly lucky to experience this infinitesimally unusual thing like five seperate times, which is stupid. The concept of genuine love is a mystification that makes relationships seem more complicated or more impossible than they are.

[Twit 2]

Yep, I think it's beautiful to be alone.

Hang on, but don't you actually live on your own? Bit of luck for you there, then!

Shoulders' OP is wise and true. You have to be a 'bald fuckless cunt' to fully appreciate the heft of it. If I hadn't met my wife when I did,  I reckon I would quite easily be in the same situation.

As for pancreas, having now met the fucker, I can see how he'd turn even the staunchest heterosexual to a spot of gaying.

Bye.

[Pdine]

This really is bleak as fuck, that real adults think this way. But whatever makes you feel alive, I suppose.

Boo - patronising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma7lyfYzIw8

[Zetetic]

That other people around were managing this would inevitably cause feelings of inadequacy.

And the Two Together Railcard.

I wonder if we're going to see some exciting new old mores in the next few decades, relating to various demographic timebombs. (A little weirdly, I was considering a "Breeding etc." post on the way home yesterday evening, touching on this and the OP in a more fatuous and less interesting manner - incels and An Excess Male.)

[thenoise]

Maybe I wasn't clear. I've been in several long term relationships, I'm in one now - in all of them I've been 'in love', with different degrees of maturity and seriousness. If I believed in this rare and occasional bird called 'genuine love' I'd need to retroactively think that only my feelings now are real and that they weren't in the past, for other women - or else that I've been wildly lucky to experience this infinitesimally unusual thing like five seperate times, which is stupid. The concept of genuine love is a mystification that makes relationships seem more complicated or more impossible than they are.

Does genuine love mean not only exclusive but eternal? I think that's a bit far fetched. I think that for most people it's sufficient to say that I love my wife¹ now and have made a commitment to her in the future. She wouldn't ask me to pretend I didn't love my ex girlfriend, as that was the past, I was a different person and in a different situation then.

Having to put effort into a relationship doesn't make it less real, everything worth doing is difficult.

_{my wife}

[Pdine]

Genuineness is a hugely problematic concept, as is love.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

incels

Oh please shite no.

A collective of mentally shot bitter men and some mean, nasty people who are using the worst outliers of that unhealthy clique to tar other ordinary people who are finding it difficult to establish intimate relationships with their unhealthy behaviour.

Let's just acknowledge they're out there, yes, (which is a cause for pity rather than opprobrium, on the whole - they need help and support) and move it back to a more personal level/or the social science stuff which has been interesting reading.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Genuineness is a hugely problematic concept, as is love.

I don't think either are relevant to the discussion. We are talking about intimacy. If it feels genuine to the receiver and fulfils their desires that's fine. I don't think there needs to be additional thresholds.

[Pdine]

I don't think either are relevant to the discussion. We are talking about intimacy. If it feels genuine to the receiver and fulfils their desires that's fine. I don't think there needs to be additional thresholds.

Sure; I'm just referring to Paul Calf's reaction upthread calling rejections of the concept of 'genuine love' bleak.

edit to add: also I recognise that this is your thread, but personally I'm interested in the journey from thoughtful single person to radicalised, red-pilled 'incel'.

[AllisonSays]

Does genuine love mean not only exclusive but eternal? I think that's a bit far fetched. I think that for most people it's sufficient to say that I love my wife¹ now and have made a commitment to her in the future. She wouldn't ask me to pretend I didn't love my ex girlfriend, as that was the past, I was a different person and in a different situation then.

Having to put effort into a relationship doesn't make it less real, everything worth doing is difficult.

_{my wife}

I completely agree with this, aye (I also love your wife). I was mostly disagreeing with the '99 percent of relationships' don't entail genuine love thing!

[Zetetic]

^^ I think it's interesting because it reflects that there aren't that many ways to make sense of terminal loneliness: It's about Them, it's about me, or it's a matter of time and effort and luck and not really anyone's fault.

The last of these, while most of the truth, obviously doesn't reflect anyone's personal experience until the point where they're not lonely anymore. Until then they're soaking up subjectively vast quantities of time, every day is exhausting and very attempt to change the situation has been a horrible draining failure.

Much of my teenage terror was the concern that I'd turn from hating myself and self-injuring to wanting to hurt other people.

And the noise - from various factions - about this 'identity' that a tiny number of people have adopted reflects the societal posture towards loneliness (amongst other things).

[Pijlstaart]

If you date a woman, there's a look of disgust that they'll give you, they've gone behind the curtain, they know the real you, and they're repulsed. You don't want that. Do your own physical intimacy, find a corner, or a sack, any space you don't mind crusting over, it'll be better.

Never really got the appeal, you watch the robin hood film, where they're foxes, and there's this bit where they're courting one another, they're tottering about in a glen and they look in each other's eyes wistfully. I thought it was really boring, it wasted our time, but it must have resonated with some people. I liked when the boob hen went fucking mental at the funfair and beat everyone up, a great scene, and it could have gone on for longer if they hadn't squandered the budget animating shoehorned-in romance. I also liked this bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NffIMAv0css , and deep down I think everyone else did too, they agree with me, but they all look wistfully into each other's eyes and they never go fucking mental at the funfair. Not a clue.

[Norton Canes]

there's a look of disgust that they'll give you, they've gone behind the curtain, they know the real you, and they're repulsed

I get that every morning. You get used to it after 27 years.

[Buelligan]

Nobody ever expresses sorrow about your constant statements like this so may I be the first.  Your pronouncements about being the rock, the island, the been-there-entity.  They're never convincing.  If you were content why would you mention it?  I always feel like you just need a hug in these circumstances, like a person, like any person in a cave or otherwise.

Heheh, I mention it because it's the topic in hand, what's being discussed and I think the world is constantly reinforcing the idea that there must be something wrong with you, very wrong, if you're not in a pair or striving with all your suffering heart to be in one.

I've been paired all of my adult life.  Hardly more than 24 hours between each long stint.  Now, I've chosen to reject that way of living.  I tried to be happy like that and I wasn't.  Now, I'm living alone (have been for several years) and am happier (even though life is harder in many practical ways) than I have ever been. 

I think it's important, if you try something like that and discover it works for you, to let others know - especially when the world and its auntie are all pushing the other line with every song, film, ad, book, painting and just about everything else too.  And they are, aren't they?

Christoper Columbus is 28.

[Buelligan]

Of course, I don't doubt that. It's just on a thread about people feeling the need for intamacy and contact it seems a bit callous to come in and essentially brag that "well I'm alone and I'm fine with it."

Except that wasn't what I was doing but if it makes you happy to misrepresent me, fill your boots, you silly cunt.

[Buelligan]

I agree it's not that helpful, but I doubt I've been much better. A more charitable reading is that she is reminding people that there is a third way.

What I can't reconcile is this: Buelligan is as strongly embedded here as anyone, showing that human interaction is meaningful to her (so she's not an alien)—but it seems that the prospect of that having a physical component is to her ... rebarbative, let's say. Most people's experiences of non-aliens is that the attraction of spending time here is that it satisfies one component which is part of what makes offline socialising desirable. But then again, how many do we usually manage to turn out a CaB meet? (In other words, there may be more quasi-aliens than I might think.)

Try thinking about it this way - CaB isn't leaving the seat up or using all the milk or never paying for anything or talking all though my favourite music or hogging the duvet or leaving washing all over the floor or a million other things.  CaB can be switched off.  Also, it is perfectly possible to have physical interactions with other humans without being in a couple.  I am surprised you are so slow on this.

[Buelligan]

I think Buelligan likes the fact she is different (which is fine), so if everyone started copying her I wonder if she'd get an office job and a studio apartment etc.

I do think it's a bit rich to come across all "be more like me then" when your personality and self-esteem is pitted in heterodoxy and individualism.

When did I say "be more like me then"?  I didn't did I? 

[Buelligan]

If any one else wants a go, you'll have to wait, I'm switching you off for a bit.

[ASFTSN]

We know you are happy.  It is good.

[Sebastian Cobb]

You've not lived until you've brought one of those 'couples' meal for 2 and a bottle of wine M&S meals on offer and smashed both meals alone and downed the bottle of wine in an act of self-loathing and gluttony.

[Dr Rock]

I think it's derailing the thread, but I'd quickly like to align myself somewhat with Buelligan's outlook, while apologising for this being another 'I like being alone me' post. Been in love, had loads of relationships, now in a low maintenance, see each other the occasional weekend weather permitting set-up. Could be happy being alone and pissing in the sink until I pop my clogs I reckon. But this state, like Buelligan's, has come from having been there and done that plenty, and maybe an accompanying weariness, that may seem enviable to some. The sentiments expressed in Shoulders' opening post make me want to add more than a 'being alone is kool' or one of my hilarious jokes, but I don't know what to say. I suppose if you carry such a weight, then offload it onto a new partner, it will usually be off-putting. That's the way it is. I haven't got a solution though, it's not my life experience nor an issue I've had to overcome. Anyway, I don't reckon Buelligan is boasting about loving being alone for any deeper meaning than she loves it despite society strongly suggesting you should be paired up. I hope there are more helpful or insightful or interesting replies than this one to come. Love, me x

[Kane Jones]

I'm 42 and since the age of 16, I've not spent a great deal of time being single. Even when I have there's been one night stands or casual things. You can hashtaghumblebrag this as much as you like, but it's the truth. However, the spells I have spent being single I've really enjoyed. In fact, before I met my wife, I vowed that I wouldn't get involved with anyone seriously again (admittedly, the previous relationship had ended spectacularly badly) and I thoroughly enjoyed the six months or so I spent on my own.

I kind of still stand by this. If heaven forbid my marriage went arse-up wrong-go, I would definitely fuck relationships off forever, as that would be 8 long term relationships I've been in that would've ended in the crapper. It would be obvious to me that I'm not really cut out for it. I'd probably go and live in a shed in Norfolk and just live out my days listening to music and basking in the sun/rain, which sounds OK to me. It's not quite as ace as Buelligan's cave, but it'd suit me.

There was a point to this post.. Oh yeah, so while I do love being with someone and sharing that intimacy, I also love my own company and can totally understand why Buellers can't be arsed with it all. If I get hurt one more time it's either Norfolk or bridge-jumping time, so I'll plump for the former. Relationships are the best, but getting over them is literally the most pain I've ever been in. Also, I'm a bitter cunt too. If someone dumps me, they instantly become my mortal enemy for having the audacity to think they can find someone better.

[Danger Man]

Buelligan hasn't paid me to post this, but I think the article in the OP is good evidence that most relationships are social-status bullshit. You get a rush out of being in a relationship for the same reason that you get a rush out of a high-paying job; because you are fulfilling society's benchmarks.

I can only speak for myself but having spent my entire adult life married and, at times, having had high paying jobs I can assure you that I haven't been doing it because of society.

From as young as I can remember I always wanted a partner, if society has anything to do with this I don't think it's because I wanted the rush of fulfilling its benchmarks, more likely because a relationship feels like "You and me against the world". It's good to have somebody on your side.

[Barry Admin]

All that "mental last line of defence" stuff in the OP was bound to make some of us want to say "actually, I'm fine with being alone, I much prefer it."

Personally I can only stick people in small doses. That's not to be pitied, it's not an error that needs corrected. It's me, I'm different, I have never felt any urge to conform. And I'm not saying that to be insensitive to others, rather I'm saying it because I suppose I want fewer people to worry so much about societal pressures and expectations.

Now people who are in a relationship and don't want to have kids, on the other hand, they really are fucked up...

[Danger Man]

Now people who are in a relationship and don't want to have kids, on the other hand, they really are fucked up...

Hello again.

Two people is the perfect number for a couple.

Kids would ruin the numbers and get in the way. And they are fucking awful anyway.