Author Topic: Frankie Boyle's New World Order  (Read 20494 times)

up_the_hampipe

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2018, 09:17:53 AM »
To me he's still just a rape-joke rent-a-panellist

Interesting how telling jokes on the topic of rape is now considered a legitimate criticism of a comedian. That “perpetuating rape culture” spiel really worked didn’t it.

Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2018, 09:21:54 AM »
spiel

telling a joke about a disabled boy raping his mother = telling jokes on the topic of rape.

Jockice

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2018, 09:24:05 AM »
His Guardian columns have frequently been very good, not just the quality of his comic imagery and language, but also politically, which makes him doing this particularly disappointing.

Even if his views - and those of the panel and guests - are completely different from mine - it would possibly be forgivable if they had actually come up with any new angles on the subject or even been remotely funny. But they didn't. It was just shit.

up_the_hampipe

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2018, 09:31:04 AM »
spiel

telling a joke about a disabled boy raping his mother = telling jokes on the topic of rape.

Is that joke perpetuating rape culture then? If you find the joke itself yucky, fair enough, but the topic can be handled in comedy.

Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2018, 09:31:36 AM »
He's been shitting on Israel for years.
The second he makes some jibes about Labour AS, he's suddenly a Zionist shill.

Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2018, 09:43:13 AM »
Is that joke perpetuating rape culture then? If you find the joke itself yucky, fair enough, but the topic can be handled in comedy.

I didn't say he or it couldn't. You claimed that it was down to the soil of rape culture that people object to his particular jokes.

up_the_hampipe

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2018, 09:47:29 AM »
I didn't say he or it couldn't. You claimed that it was down to the soil of rape culture that people object to his particular jokes.

Well someone did particularly criticise him for being a rape joke guy, even though that’s one of many horrible subjects he jokes about.

biggytitbo

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2018, 09:48:42 AM »
He's been shitting on Israel for years.
The second he makes some jibes about Labour AS, he's suddenly a Zionist shill.


Makes it all the more curious why all his Israel jokes where mysteriously cut out but the 15 minutes rehashing the same hoary 2 year old fake anti-semitism crisis in labour was left intact then doesnt it?

Jumblegraws

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2018, 09:57:37 AM »
He's been shitting on Israel for years.
The second he makes some jibes about Labour AS, he's suddenly a Zionist shill.
George Galloway’s heartbroken over it. This was his response to the man he called “simply wonderful” a couple of years ago: https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/997817618261331968?s=21
Quote
Fuck you @frankieboyle

Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2018, 10:01:11 AM »

Makes it all the more curious why all his Israel jokes where mysteriously cut out but the 15 minutes rehashing the same hoary 2 year old fake anti-semitism crisis in labour was left intact then doesnt it?

I don't buy that. And it's clearly not a fake crisis.

George Galloway’s heartbroken over it. This was his response to the man he called “simply wonderful” a couple of years ago: https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/997817618261331968?s=21

If he's riled that awful cunt, then job done.

Dr Rock

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2018, 10:09:38 AM »
He had him and four guests all agreeing there was antisemitism on the left/in Labour and Corbyn hadn't done enough about it. For about 15 minutes. I don't care if he had some Israel jokes too, that's a different subject. If the guests all seemed to have the same opinion, as host he should've at least taken devil's advocate and suggested it could be a smear campaign built on a very few examples that were mostly about Israel and not proper 'Jews run the world and I hate them' shit, what more can Corbyn/Labour do, they've done loads, etc.

Jumblegraws

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2018, 10:18:22 AM »
He had him and four guests all agreeing there was antisemitism on the left/in Labour and Corbyn hadn't done enough about it. For about 15 minutes. I don't care if he had some Israel jokes too, that's a different subject. If the guests all seemed to have the same opinion, as host he should've at least taken devil's advocate and suggested it could be a smear campaign built on a very few examples that were mostly about Israel and not proper 'Jews run the world and I hate them' shit, what more can Corbyn/Labour do, they've done loads, etc.
I started watching the show but it was so fucking boring I gave up well before they got into the meat of the antisemitism material. How much of it was “antisemitism in Labour” as opposed to the left generally? I don’t really see a problem with shining a light on the latter, notwithstandig how tedious and uninspired the resulting discussion was.

biggytitbo

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2018, 10:27:35 AM »
I don't buy that. And it's clearly not a fake crisis.


Yes it is. He didn't mention any of the similar claims made against the Greens, who he supports, or the SNP did he?


There is no 'anti-semitism crisis' in the labour party, no more than there is in the country as a whole, its entirely contrived by people with a specific agenda to get rid of Corbyn.

Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2018, 10:37:28 AM »

Yes it is. He didn't mention any of the similar claims made against the Greens, who he supports, or the SNP did he?


There is no 'anti-semitism crisis' in the labour party, no more than there is in the country as a whole, its entirely contrived by people with a specific agenda to get rid of Corbyn.

Yes there is. It's not contrived. https://twitter.com/GnasherJew/status/989090805750083585

biggytitbo

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2018, 10:54:11 AM »
That's just the same framing 'error' (I say error, its deliberate), that this entire bogus scandal is based.

Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2018, 11:09:07 AM »
That's just the same framing 'error' (I say error, its deliberate), that this entire bogus scandal is based.

In other words, pipe down Jews!

biggytitbo

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2018, 11:44:58 AM »
Is there anti-semtiism on the left? Yes
Is there anti-semtiism in labour? Yes
Is there anti-semtiism in other political parties and general public? Yes

Is there some special 'crisis' in Corbyn's labour party regarding anti-semitism that it warrants it been constantly rehashed and used by his ideological opponents and the msm as a way to undermine him? No.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmhaff/136/136.pdf
Quote
Despite significant press and public attention on the Labour Party, and a number of
revelations regarding inappropriate social media content, there exists no reliable, empirical
evidence to support the notion that there is a higher prevalence of antisemitic attitudes
within the Labour Party than any other political party.

http://www.jpr.org.uk/publication?id=9993
Quote
On the political spectrum, levels of antisemitism are found to be highest among the far-right, and levels of anti-Israelism are heightened across all parts of the left-wing, but particularly on the far-left. In all cases, the higher the level of anti-Israelism, the more likely it is to be accompanied by antisemitism. Yet, importantly, most of the antisemitism found in British society exists outside of these three groups – the far-left, far-right and Muslims; even at its most heightened levels of intensity, only about 15% of it can be accounted for by them.

https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2018-04-26/labour-anti-semitism-mps-lynch-mob/
Quote
In fact, the Blairites now seem determined to terminally wound not just Corbyn but their own party, as they did at the instigation of the Conservative government last week in a debate on anti-semitism. The opportunistic pummelling of Corbyn, jointly conducted by Labour and Conservative MPs, comes just days before local authority elections that were supposed to be Labour’s chance to seize the initiative from the government.

Smeeth and other Labour MPs have relied on personal anecdotes to argue that anti-semitism is far worse in Labour than any other party, and worse than in British society generally. That is the only possible meaning of the term “crisis”. But the actual statistics give the absolute lie to their claims.

Anti-semitism in Labour is so dire, so endemic, according to Smeeth and her allies, that the party must be eviscerated in public day after day, its energies sapped in the hunt to root out any traces of Jew hatred, and its political programme (and the chances of beating the Tories) set aside until the purges are complete.

But the Wadsworth case illustrates quite how sham the “anti-semitism crisis” is.

His attack on Smeeth was political, not racist. If she took offence, it should have been because she regarded his comments as a political insult, and an untrue one, not a racist insult.

But Smeeth preferred to mischaracterise the attack, not least because she would have been hard pressed to offer a political defence. Instead she weaponised anti-semitism to divert our attention from the real issue at the heart of the spat between herself and Wadsworth. She accused him of promoting “vile conspiracy theories about Jewish people”. Wadsworth pointed out that he did not even know Smeeth was Jewish until she brought the issue into play.

It is hard to avoid the conclusion that Smeeth believes, because she is Jewish, that any criticism of her is anti-semitic by definition. And she now has 50 MPs on her side, trying to bully Wadsworth out of the party – and by implication, not only him but anyone else who might try to unmask their McCarthyite tactics.

Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2018, 11:58:03 AM »
Quote
To me he's still just a rape-joke rent-a-panellist

If you listen to his audiobook, it'll probably change your mind. It's free on his website.

I like some of his one-liners, I don't like any of his hour-long stand-up acts, but his writing is humourous, thoughtful and sometimes very good. I much prefer it to, say, Stewart Lee's painfully strung-out metaphor-articles.

Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2018, 12:11:40 PM »
Is there anti-semtiism on the left? Yes
Is there anti-semtiism in labour? Yes
Is there anti-semtiism in other political parties and general public? Yes

Is there some special 'crisis' in Corbyn's labour party regarding anti-semitism that it warrants it been constantly rehashed and used by his ideological opponents and the msm as a way to undermine him? No.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmhaff/136/136.pdf
http://www.jpr.org.uk/publication?id=9993
https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2018-04-26/labour-anti-semitism-mps-lynch-mob/

So maybe this is a semantics thing. If you don't like crisis, try situation, dilemma or hot potato.
Ideological opponents will use any weakness to undermine each other. That's just politics.
To try and play it down or shift the issues elsewhere makes you sound like an apologist.
JC incubates some wronguns.

Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2018, 12:53:56 PM »
Whether Frankie focused on the anti semetism stuff is a debate that doesn't interest me one way or other, the lack of focus on Windrush bar a few jabs here and there was bizarre. It was just as recent and a horrific moment for the government. FFS even Nigel Farage said it was wrong.  I dunno maybe he is keeping that for this Friday?

biggytitbo

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #50 on: May 21, 2018, 01:23:43 PM »
So maybe this is a semantics thing. If you don't like crisis, try situation, dilemma or hot potato.
Ideological opponents will use any weakness to undermine each other. That's just politics.
To try and play it down or shift the issues elsewhere makes you sound like an apologist.
JC incubates some wronguns.


There are more than half a million members of the labour party and a few dozen of them are been investigated, many of them jewish themselves and most still to be found guilty of anything. No crisis, or 'situation' or however you want to spin it, just an orchestrated campaign by the right wing and centre political establishment to destroy Corbyn and the chances of the genuinely left wing government.


And Boyle of all people is aiding and abetting.

Famous Mortimer

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2018, 01:51:08 PM »
So maybe this is a semantics thing. If you don't like crisis, try situation, dilemma or hot potato.
Ideological opponents will use any weakness to undermine each other. That's just politics.
To try and play it down or shift the issues elsewhere makes you sound like an apologist.
JC incubates some wronguns.

Obviously, you're still banging this drum because of your own ideological leanings, but were you not interested in why, of all the things that could have been talked about, he chose to give such a large amount of time on his show to doing something designed to make it more difficult for Britain to elect the first genuinely progressive government in...decades? Do you think this is different to the completely baseless accusations that Corbyn is a terrorist, in the pay of Russia, or whatever the rather desperate-sounding criticism du jour is? Do you think there might, just might, be a reason other than anti-semitism that "nice" "moderates" are lining up to stick the boot into Corbyn?

Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2018, 02:20:27 PM »
Obviously, you're still banging this drum because of your own ideological leanings, but were you not interested in why, of all the things that could have been talked about, he chose to give such a large amount of time on his show to doing something designed to make it more difficult for Britain to elect the first genuinely progressive government in...decades? Do you think this is different to the completely baseless accusations that Corbyn is a terrorist, in the pay of Russia, or whatever the rather desperate-sounding criticism du jour is? Do you think there might, just might, be a reason other than anti-semitism that "nice" "moderates" are lining up to stick the boot into Corbyn?

I don't even know my ideological leanings, so fuck knows how you do. I was glad Boyle gave some time on his show to it. Why not? The whole situation hasn't really been discussed in mainstream comedy too much. I always knew Boyle as anti-Israel so was good to see him taking shots at AS.

Do you think this is different to the completely baseless accusations that Corbyn is a terrorist, in the pay of Russia, or whatever the rather desperate-sounding criticism du jour is? Do you think there might, just might, be a reason other than anti-semitism that "nice" "moderates" are lining up to stick the boot into Corbyn?

I don't care. He wants to be PM, so he is subject to public scrutiny. The fact that so many people want to deflect the issue just to get him in power is grim.
I just don't to see things like this on a near daily basis:
https://twitter.com/GnasherJew/status/998491501297618950

BlodwynPig

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2018, 07:52:39 PM »
The current PM is not subject to much or any scrutiny, so your language is rather sneering

biggytitbo

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2018, 07:54:45 PM »
How many jokes did he make about the gross institutional racism of the Windrush scandal? Which goes right to the top of the current UK prime minister?

Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2018, 10:27:18 PM »
Why can’t he make jokes about whatever he wants?

BlodwynPig

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #56 on: May 22, 2018, 06:53:12 AM »
Why can’t he make jokes about whatever he wants?

fair point, well made.

Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #57 on: May 22, 2018, 09:10:40 AM »
Nice sneering bra

Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #58 on: May 22, 2018, 10:08:01 AM »
Everything just feels like content, doesn't it? That's what you get when impetus behind things isn't because something needed to be said or somebody had something to say, but because statistics reported that a demographic wanted to consume something vaguely satirical, I guess. And then of course the distribution channel is going to edit it to their own requirements. I'm glad people are complaining about it. Frankie Boyle just wants everybody to shut up consume the content.

Yeah, this is my main issue with the entire show. It isn't particularly comedic or informative or satirical, it only has vague elements of these things without being that great at any of them. I watched most of the first series but when I heard a new one was coming I wasn't interested in watching it, but the criticism he received about it made me have a watch of this new one and the clips they play (like the Harry and Meghan TV movie, if anybody got that far...) are actually funnier than the guests. I'm not sure what purpose Mona Chalabi serves on the show, she only says a couple of lines in conversation throughout the entire thing and they aren't insightful or funny.

I don't think Frankie quite appreciates the fact he's been given a prominent platform on the BBC as a lefty media figure and therefore people are going to hold him to account for what content he produces and the messages it sends.

Dr Rock

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Re: Frankie Boyle's New World Order
« Reply #59 on: May 22, 2018, 10:27:49 AM »
I can't remember, did he do any jokes about the Tories - you know, the ones who are actually in power?

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