Topic: Hereditary

[Hecate]

I loved that bit where witchy spider mum silently swims through the air until she's out of frame.
More of this please, BBC!

[gout_pony]

There were definitely scare chords there. Not as many as any other modern horror film would have. But they were still there. The clicking just felt like such a crutch. It exists only to tell you that its the creepy dude ooh he's possessed oooooooh get fucked.

The clicking was a neat trick, I thought, b/c it was to cue members of the audience to make the same sound, thus confusing the sense of when the creepy character was about to appear...

(I reckon so, anyway)

[Hecate]

At the screening I went to, 4 Khoisan tribesmen walked out halfway through. I asked them in the foyer what was the matter and one of them told me that they only had a rudimentary understanding of English and couldn't really follow what was going on so had decided to cut their losses and go bowling instead.

[DukeDeMondo]

Here's a whole bunch of deleted scenes, if you're any way interested.

Nothing revelatory or owt, but if you enjoyed the film, well, there's 18 minutes more of it for you.

[Hecate]

Ooh, thank you, I can see why it was all cut, but it's always interesting to see things like this.

[Mister Six]

Just got round to seeing this. Went in with zero expectations and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Same. Might have helped that it was just me and the missus in our living room rather than in a cinema full of sniggering twats, but I thought it was about the most harrowing film I've seen in years. It only lost it for me right at the end when it got a bit daft and expository. All the underlined passages were enough - I don't know why we needed to have it all repeated out loud when the ritual would pretty much have been enough.

Not sure what the plot holes people were complaining about. I was a bit confused about why the mum was suddenly possessed, but other than that it all made sense. Grandma leaving her demonic plans in a box in the attic was silly though.

[Noodle Lizard]

Not sure what the plot holes people were complaining about. I was a bit confused about why the mum was suddenly possessed, but other than that it all made sense. Grandma leaving her demonic plans in a box in the attic was silly though.

The main one for me was that the orchestration of the cult's masterplan was implausibly convoluted.  We're to understand that the host's head must be removed in order for the demon to pass from body to body - fair enough, occult shite - but the way they managed to remove the daughter's head was a bit fucking convoluted. 

"Right, let's hope her mum uncharacteristically sends her to a house party she really shouldn't be at, hope she eats some of the nuts there what with the allergy and everything, and hope the son then drives recklessly while she sticks her head out the window trying to breathe.  We'll chuck a deer carcass in the road to ensure he swerves just at the right point so her head gets knocked off by this telephone pole we've put our sigil on".  Either that, or it was just happenstance, which is almost as stupid.  The demon itself seems fairly useless if it wasn't able to escape that girl for 13 years without help from a bunch of naked fat people, which makes you question its effectiveness as one of the Kings of Hell.

Also, when the girl's head got knocked off, it went into the book - right?  For some reason - okay, occult shite.  Then it gets into the mum when she throws the book into the fire (for some reason setting the father on fire in the process, even when that wasn't what was set up earlier when the mum tried to burn it).  Okay.  Then the mum has to cut her head off to let it out so it can transfer into Peter, who just so happened to have been so spooked that he jumped out a window to his death.  Again, maybe happenstance, but then the movie ends with a ceremony immediately after where they basically explain that this was all planned (thus fulfilling the labored dollhouse metaphor).  Just seems there would be a far easier way to get the demon into Peter than all that.  Also, why are they explaining to the demon that he is, in fact, a bloody powerful demon at the end?  Again, this demon seems pretty useless and not worth all the bother.

Fair enough, there's not always much logic to the supernatural, and it's definitely not a genre which benefits from overexplanation.  The problem with Hereditary, as opposed to a genuinely ambiguous supernatural film like The Shining or a supernatural film with a clear story and vision like The Exorcist, was that it tried to explain everything - complete with a purely expository monologue at the end - but the explanation made no sense.  It really feels like a first draft by a writer whose ideas changed several times throughout the process.

[Mister Six]

The main one for me was that the orchestration of the cult's masterplan was implausibly convoluted.  We're to understand that the host's head must be removed in order for the demon to pass from body to body - fair enough, occult shite - but the way they managed to remove the daughter's head was a bit fucking convoluted. 

Nah, I think she just has to die. Grandma/the cult done a hex and it went all Final Destination.

You might be right about the book though. I can't quite remember.

Paimon (stupid name) is a bit confused because he's spent 11 years in a stupid child, a bit of time in a book and is now in a concussed teen. That seems reasonable, although I'm not sure why they expected him to immediately give them wisdom if they know he's also a bit confused about actually being a demon at that point.

[Gregory Torso]

I just saw this and really loved it. Creeped me the hell out, and I'll probably watch it again tomorrow to see what I missed the first time around.

Haven't been through this thread yet, so apologies if I'm rehashing what has already gone before, but there some beautiful shots in this, in particular the grandma sitting surrounded by flames in the woods and the flash of Peter sitting in his room to Peter sitting in class.

I'm fairly jaded and burnt out on horror these days but this film had me exclaiming THE FUCK on at least three occassions.

Amazing how much more effective jump scares are without musical stings.

[Gregory Torso]

Well, having skimmed the first four pages, I seem to be in the minority here... you miserable bastards... anyway, I liked it a lot, and I liked The Witch a lot, too. And I'm me, so I must be in the right.

[græskar]

I just watched it and I thought it was really good, was a bit surprised to read the rather negative responses here. But I don't watch too many films, certainly not horrors, so I'm probably unsophisticated and swallow any old crap.
I was/am properly spooked by it. Some very scary stuff. I liked some of the decisions they took: that there were no pentagrams/upturned crosses/cliche Satanist stuff; the twist that the film doesn't revolve around the little possessed girl; that the girl, as somebody mentioned earlier, seemed just genuinely sad and confused.
I liked the surreal ending in the cabin. Not least because it was a bit of over-the-top surrealism that was a welcome respite after the tense previous scenes.

Agree that the overly jovial Joan was a red flag the minute she appeared, too predictable.


But yeah, I'm really spooked.

[Pinckle Wicker]

Another fan here too.  I watched it last week and was instantly intrigued as to what was going to happen. I thought it was really well cast and loved Gabriel Byrne underplaying it all. 

[popcorn]

Definitely going to be one of my favourites of the year, I reckon. All the haters are nutters.

[lipsink]

There was a strange scene where Gabriel Byrne went into see the son (or mum was it?) after the funeral and he was just randomly holding an empty glass. Was the glass relevant?

Sorry, probably reading too much into it.

[Shameless Custard]

On second viewing I liked this a lot more. It's even going in my films of the year list. What an accolade. Huge congrats to all the cast and crew on this incredible achievement x

[popcorn]

Huge congrats to all the cast and crew on this incredible achievement x

Thanks it means a lot.

[grassbath]

Oi! Stop it! Films of the year lists? This film was shit I tell you! SHIT!

[Shameless Custard]

grassbath is going in my Scrooges Of The Year list, guys

Watch out for him!

[St_Eddie]

This film was so-so, I tell you!  SO-SO!

[Old Gold Tooth]

Each to their own but I too thought it was great! Were there plot-holes and logic issues? Yep. But it also had a feverish nightmarish quality that few horror films even try for these days, and the set-pieces and imagery are fantastic.

The son hearing that unidentifiable whipp-whippp noise and looking up to find his mum garroting her own head off in the attic was one of the few gibbering "fucking hell!!!" moments I can recall a film making me do in years.

[St_Eddie]

The son hearing that unidentifiable whipp-whippp noise and looking up to find his mum garroting her own head off...

"You're terrible, Muriel."

[TrenterPercenter]

Just about to sit down on my own in dark creepy house and watch this again.

Wonder if it will seem less silly than when I saw it at the cinema.

[Vitalstatistix]

I'm in the 'saw it late, with zero expectations or knowledge, with the missus in the living room, and it spooked me the fuck out' camp.

Quite a specific camp, there.

Beautiful to look at, constant uneasy dread, some horrific moments, great performances, great score. I liked both the kinda realism-based first half, and the bonkers, silly ending too. I liked that it wasn't afraid to be a bit silly actually. I was also really scared on a number of occasions, which genuinely hasn't happened in over a decade. I thought I was dead inside. Hooray, I can feel again!

[Mister Six]

I'm in the same camp. Probably the most harrowing film I've seen in years, at least around that point. It did get daft towards the end, but I don't think it suffered for it.

What happened to the dog, by the way? It just seemed to disappear.

[TrenterPercenter]

Oh I never wrote a follow after my second viewing.

I would say much better than the first.  I had no idea, other than the general plot, what was going on really the first time but there is actually a lot more to it (you might need to read some spoilers at it is actually all there (almost) but it is way too subtle to get on a first play through.

I've got a feeling this film will age well, give it another go if you've already watched it and didn't think much of it.  When you know what is going on it is much creepier.

[chveik]

dunno if this deserves a new thread:

trailer for his next film:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0UWIya-O0s

looks promising

[St_Eddie]

dunno if this deserves a new thread...

Of course it does, which is why I've just created one.

[Glebe]

Just watched this again on Amazon Prime last night... yes, it wears it's influences on it's sleeve and maybe goes a bit too over the top, but I still really like it... atmospheric, creepy and disturbing.

dunno if this deserves a new thread:

trailer for his next film:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0UWIya-O0s

looks promising

Crikey, I saw this mentioned on some film site but I didn't know it was his next film... look's interesting.

[Jerzy Bondov]

I've only just caught up on this. It should have been right up my street but for some reason it didn't quite click with me. Sitting here wracking my brains trying to work out if I enjoyed it or not. What sort of behaviour is this? There are some really striking and upsetting images in this, especially in that amazing final 20 minutes. Beautifully shot, well timed, original and very scary. But... Is it a bit long? I seem to feel that way about anything that goes over 90 minutes these days, but it did lose me a bit in the middle. You need a good build up before you get into the Crazy Ghost House Experience but for me it came down on the wrong side of the deliberately paced/boring line a few times. Spoilers I suppose: The main character switches for the end bit. I feel a bit short changed to have spent so much time with the mum for her just to turn into a mad beast for the end bit. I think that's the point, but it didn't do it for me. Does she know the dad's going to go on fire when she burns the book? I guess that's her tipping over into darkness and allowing the demon to get her. I dunno. It's definitely really good, but I didn't like it that much.

Also looking in the mirror and your reflection is doing an evil smile?? Come off it.

And I've read way too many people saying it 'transcends genre' now. No it doesn't. It's a horror film. Having nice cinematography doesn't somehow turn your horror film about a bad demon into something other than horror. Just because there's a sad mum in it doesn't mean it's not horror. A film doesn't have to be exactly the same as Insidious or The Conjuring to be horror. I love horror and I just don't like the idea that a well made film isn't horror. Horror horror horror.

[St_Eddie]

...I've read way too many people saying it 'transcends genre' now. No it doesn't. It's a horror film. Having nice cinematography doesn't somehow turn your horror film about a bad demon into something other than horror. Just because there's a sad mum in it doesn't mean it's not horror. A film doesn't have to be exactly the same as Insidious or The Conjuring to be horror. I love horror and I just don't like the idea that a well made film isn't horror. Horror horror horror.

Aye, it just goes to show how far the standards of mainstream horror have fallen in recent times, that this is now considered to be a masterpiece, that transcends the genre.  "The scariest horror film since The Exorcist", as the quoted hyperbolic review on the poster claimed.  Unfortunately, modern audiences have become far too accustomed to thinking that all horror is just scary masks and jump scares.

I don't even think that it's just a problem with horror, quite frankly.  I think that broadly speaking, the same could be said about mainstream cinema in general.  Every time that a film comes out which isn't aggressively stupid, it gets hailed as a masterpiece and a modern classic.  It's just that the standards have fallen so low these days.  I hasten to emphasise that I'm strictly talking about mainstream cinema here, not independent films.  There's still plenty of genuinely fantastic works coming out from that sector.

I also hasten to add that whilst I personally thought Hereditary was alright (not great, not bad.  A strong couple of opening acts, followed by a terrible final act), lots of people really enjoyed it and that's great.  I would never argue against that and I hope that people don't think that's what I'm doing here.  I'm simply saying that I've noticed films which aren't poorly written, as the vast majority seem to be these days, tend to get overpraised, as though they're the second coming.  Again, it speaks volumes about the state of modern mainstream cinema, in my opinion.