Dark Souls Remastered

[The Boston Crab]

The first time I played it, literally none of the stories or characters or themes did anything for me. The level design and atmosphere seemed really cool and I became properly immersed and felt that wonderful sense of home at Firelink but I didn't have any idea of environmental storytelling. Beyond that, the NPC quests are quite tricky to follow. You have to do various things in certain order to meet them around the world and it's easy to botch their quests - or rather, they will proceed regardless of your influence or interference because the game doesn't revolve around you.

I remember first playing Demon's Souls and coming across some bumbling NPC whom I accidentally killed, no, haphazardly killed because I thought 'ehh, computer games' and I just reloaded the area. Still dead. And that's some of his stuff on the floor. I looked at the wiki. Huh, there are like quests for every NPC. Cool. How do I bring him back so I can learn magic or whatever? Start a new game. Everything has consequences. And it was like a switch flicked.

Dark Souls built on that further.

[Moribunderast]

Well, I've finally ordered a copy of this game. Had never really played a Souls game before until two weeks ago when I picked up Bloodborne. I've spent the past two weeks literally thinking about that game 90% of the time, such was it's impact on me. Finished it now (well, my first playthrough - will return to it again no doubt) and I instantly needed another From game. Seems like jumping on this one while there's lots of online activity is a good idea. I'd always avoided these games because I get frustrated at overly-difficult games and thought I'd never progress but I completed Bloodborne easily enough so I think maybe the difficulty is a bit exaggerated? Just going off BB but it rarely felt unfair - it was just that you needed to beef up some stats and learn patterns/which weapons were best for a given scenario. I'm okay with that kind of difficulty.

Now to sit by the mailbox with a hangdog expression on my face until the man brings me my Souls.

[Mobius]

Is it possible to understand all the story and do all the NPC quests without google?

I love all these games but just found it impossible to do anything without looking it up. I don't know how you'd stumble across some of the stuff like 'go all the way back like 4 levels where you were hours ago and jump off a lift half way up' or 'use some random item on some tree from ages back'

I guess it must be able to be pieced together because somebody had to suss it all out and put it online!

I haven't bought the Dark Souls remaster yet because I am a bit worried the controls/gfx etc will be a struggle compared to the newer ones. But I probably should, think it's the only one I haven't played (honestly can't remember)

[The Boston Crab]

Most of the basic 'where to go' in Dark Souls is very straightforward. The Crestfallen Warrior NPC in Firelink Shrine tells you exactly what to do next, about ringing the bells, the first couple of bosses, he gives you a heads up on NPCs who have come to the area, he tells you about the crow, about the Firekeeper. The brief cut scenes generally show you where to go next, at least until Anor Londo. After that, another brief cut scene lets you know which paths are now open, bish bash bosh, fill the Lord Vessel and final boss. The DLC is extremely obtuse, though. I can imagine how exciting it must have been to find out how to access it by yourself but it's so unlikely.

Most of the story info comes from piecing together item descriptions and NPC dialogue, so it's all there, it's just like trying to put together a jigsaw by looking for jigsaw pieces on the floor of a jigsaw recycling centre. The more you play, though, the more you see things you learn reflected in the actual game world, and that's when all the care and attention and detail goes beyond anything else I've played.

[biggytitbo]

I killed all the NPCs so that might explain why I didn't know what to do most of the time.

[Kelvin]

Fine. I'm now seriously considering getting this for Switch. I hope you're happy.

[ziggy starbucks]

we'll have to set a date later in the year when a few of us can play dark souls 3 together

[falafel]

From scratch? I have it but only put an hour or so into it. Got to a blob on a rooftop. Would be interesting to play in parallel.

[biggytitbo]

Is it worth slipping Dark Souls 2 and going straight to 3. Sounds like most people are pretty negative about 2?

[The Boston Crab]

Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin is a wonderful game but it's different in tone. It's my favourite game ever some days but it was also my first proper Souls experience. It was the first one I completed and I absolutely rinsed it, multiple runs, loads of different builds and the DLC areas are as good as anything in the series. It's quite patchwork, though, and doesn't have the same intricate world design. Then again, neither does Dark Souls 3. I strongly suspect you'll prefer 3, though, and it has a lot more links to the first game. If you have a PS4, Bloodborne is absolutely the next best game by the same people. It's much more complete than Dark Souls though it's more gothic/cosmic horror than high fantasy.

[biggytitbo]

I'm playing something called the surge now and it's safe to say the makers were fans of dark souls, it's virtually a homage despite the sci-fi setting. It's quite fun, although is nowhere near as polished.

[brat-sampson]

I skipped 2, went straight to 3 and thought it was great. Not Bloodborne level, and not DS1 level, but better than basically anyone else's attempts at the genre.

[Moribunderast]

This arrived in time for me to play some over the weekend. Enjoying it thus far, though having only played Bloodborne before (and very recently) it looks very dated and the playstyle is a bit different, which is adding extra challenge. I found the gun parrying in Bloodborne much more intuitive than the shield parrying in this. Just having a cunt of a time getting the timing right on a consistent basis so far.

Speaking of cunts of times, those Bell Gargoyles in Undead Parish are currently kicking my arse. First one's a piece of piss but once the second is around I can't find a lick of time to either heal up or avoid getting fire breathed all over me. Tried over and over to the point where the neighbours might have heard me swearing so I might have to put it down for a little while. Beat the Shadows Of Yharnam first go in Bloodborne so fighting several bosses at once doesn't particularly worry me but, as I say, I can't find a moment of time to get any respite or a second to attack these pricks once the ally arrives.

I will kill them, though. And then I'll move on to the next thing that will murder me endlessly.

[Moribunderast]

Those sniping knights in Anor Londo might be the least fun I've ever had playing a game. It's weird, aside from the two gargoyles in Undead Parish, I haven't had much difficulty with the bosses in this game, but segments like the aforementioned absolutely destroy me. Have enjoyed the game immensely for the most part and it has the same sense of exploration and danger as I got from Bloodborne. There are aspects I really dislike though. The really hard bits seem to be these artificially difficult situations where you're walking on a razor-thin pathway while enemies try to knock you off it. Those sections are just lame and seem vaguely unfair.

[The Boston Crab]

Where does that happen aside from Anor Londo ceiling rafters? It's a bit punishing of course and high stakes, but it makes it feel incredibly nerve wracking even on your tenth run.

I also think the archers are shit and have never figured out a better strat than poison arrows from distance.

[falafel]

Sen, if you're feeling uncharitable? Arguably that IS Sen.

[gmoney]

I also think the archers are shit and have never figured out a better strat than poison arrows from distance.

Try this, Martin Fry.

Bomb it along the platform, dodge the cunt on the right's arrow with a roll and then twat the shit out of him. This works about 2/5 times.

[The Boston Crab]

Cheers. As I say, the poison arrows are the only guaranteed way but it seems like cheating. Once I'm up on the ledge, it seems random whether I block the cunt and he bounces off to his doom or if I get staggered and then killed in two swipes.

[gmoney]

It's definitely a bit of a dice roll. I have to say though, it's not a part of the game I've been stuck on for that long to be honest, in 3 playthroughs. Doing anything in Blighttown fills me with far more dread and apathy.

[Kryton]

Is it worth slipping Dark Souls 2 and going straight to 3. Sounds like most people are pretty negative about 2?

The only thing wrong with dark souls II is the level design of some levels. Otherwise it's still a very good game. The combat is improved and so is the spell system.

Ignore the haters. Dark souls II is a great game. The DLC is especially good and turns a decent game into a very decent game.

[Kryton]

Where does that happen aside from Anor Londo ceiling rafters? It's a bit punishing of course and high stakes, but it makes it feel incredibly nerve wracking even on your tenth run.

I also think the archers are shit and have never figured out a better strat than poison arrows from distance.

Nah just roll past them, up the ramp, use your shield and block until you get close to the one on the right and boot him off. Easy.

[madhair60]

Dark Souls 2 is so fucking bad.

[Kryton]

Dark Souls 2 is so fucking bad.

DS2 or Scholar DS2?

The only thing bad about it is the level design and some forgettable bosses.

The level design is not so bad, just a step down from the first game and it feels more disconnected. Howecer he updated 'Scholar' version fixed many of the bad enemy locations and re-balanced it to a very playable game. There's nothing in DS2 that's inherently worse than DS1 (besides the visual location of the impossible floating lava level) - a lot of purist DS1 fans seem to conveniently forget that DS1 had some clunky level design, especially in the latter half of the game. Also bed of chaos was shit.

The combat is better in DS2 and I'd argue that Scholar DS2 has better summon and invasion mechanics. It also offers some amazing DLC.

Character builds can be more varied on DS2 too!

[The Boston Crab]

I'm not even allowing myself to get involved in the thread now because a lot of people will end up really upset. I mean really upset, it'll take months. Not the kind of stuff you can ever even really forget, no matter how much time passes or how much goodwill is in the bank. It'll always be there. Best walk away now. Shut down this subforum for a few years.

[madhair60]

There's nothing in DS2 that's inherently worse than DS1

Except everything

[Moribunderast]

Where does that happen aside from Anor Londo ceiling rafters? It's a bit punishing of course and high stakes, but it makes it feel incredibly nerve wracking even on your tenth run.

I also think the archers are shit and have never figured out a better strat than poison arrows from distance.

From memory, Sen's Fortress and Blighttown felt like they were 80% narrow ledges with enemies trying to knock you off. I'm up to the Crystal Cave now and that's the same but with the added fun of the ledges being invisible. To me those sections just feel a little too random in terms of whether you fail or succeed. Maybe I'm just misreading cues in animation but I don't always feel like the character or enemies movements upon blocking, etc. are always the same so there's times I'll be knocked off a ledge when I feel like I haven't necessarily made a mistake. Those bits aren't fun to me because it's not "Oh, this enemy is hard but it's a puzzle I will eventually figure out", it's more "Well, I hope it works this time." Definitely the low points of the game for me. Again, I'm playing this right after playing Bloodborne so my criticism may be harsh, given this is the first Dark Souls game and Bloodborne feels like the perfect version of the genre, thus far.

I don't want it to sound like I don't adore the game. I do. I just occasionally need to vent when I'm stuck for a few hours at a bit I feel is cheap! I feel like I'm in the final stretch of the game (which probably means 20 more hours...) but I'm still loving the exploration and risk/reward thrill of it all. Reminds me a lot of the great survival horror games, which I think is a point Jim Sterling has made before. The way you're generally left to your own devices to figure out how to proceed is great and adds constant tension.

[The Boston Crab]

I see, yeah. I understand. I'd say pretty accurately that there's no randomness to it. It's timing and spacing. I can run through Blighttown and Sen's almost without taking any damage, and I'm actually pretty shit at the game, but yeah, there are definitely lots of annoying deaths because you don't have much space to manoeuvre.

I would say that Bloodborne is different. They perfected the genre with Dark Souls and then revisited it twice with little tweaks. DS2 more interestingly than DS3, which is basically fast rolling R1 spam and excessive boss HP. Bloodborne is totally different in terms of locking you into a certain play style. There's no builds as such, just different weapons. I know you can't necessarily get that from one playthrough of Dark Souls but it's got much more to offer on subsequent runs, and I probably put five hundred hours into Bloodborne, easily.

[Moribunderast]

Yeah, that's fair. I often find a playstyle I enjoy early and very rarely deviate from that, so there's likely a lot I'm missing on this initial playthrough. I've basically been using the same weapon since early on, as I don't like how slow the larger (and cooler-looking) weapons are so I stick to swordplay. I haven't used magic at all, so that's a major element that I've ignored, as well. Nor have I really bothered with the bow.

In the Catacombs now. After being killed a few times by some Golem in the Crystal Cave (due to a naughty note writer that sent me the wrong way with the invisible platforms) I got to the boss of that section and didn't get hit at all. More often than not it feels like the strategy of "hug the bosses arse and stab incessantly" does the trick. That icy dragon idiot barely even wagged it's tail at me.

[The Boston Crab]

I think that in Dark Souls, Miyazaki was still thinking about the overall experience of the boss encounter rather than the difficulty. It can mean there are some gimmicky or shit bosses but it's also why you have stuff like Sif limping or the Artorias duel or the puzzle elements where there's something else to consider, like Gaping Dragon and the magic sniper or Dragon Kalameet and Hawkeye Gough or the perfectly balanced two-fer of Ornstein and Smough, or the terror you feel when the second gargoyle lands, versus the cheaper gank squad bosses from later games and the excessive HP bars and 'hardcore' difficulty. The whole Prepare To Die thing was Bandai Namco marketing and nothing to do with FROM Software. That said, I do think they nailed the 'boss experience' thing best in Demon's Souls. Maiden Astraea is probably one of the best boss fights ever, along with Old Monk, Storm King, Tower Knight, Fool's Idol. Wow.

[Moribunderast]

I'd love to go back to Demon's Souls next but I remember reading that they finally closed down the online servers. I don't do much online interactivity in these games but it is nice to know it's there if you're completely stuck at a boss and just desperately want to move forward. I played through a bit of Demon's Souls ages ago (I own it on PS3) but I had no concept of how these games worked, the fact that you're supposed to redo sections a fair bit to level up before you keep going. I've been told the game is great, possibly even the best of the From games. Hopefully there's a remaster someday, although I think I read that it's very unlikely, due to contract or ownership reasons.

I think once I'm done with Dark Souls I should take a break from this genre. Bloodborne and Dark Souls back-to-back will be about 100 hours of Fromness. I have Nioh (not From, I know, but Soulslike anyway) waiting to be played and will likely buy DS2 and DS3 at some point but it's probably best to space out these experiences. There's just something so addictive about the gameplay though. Normally I hate repetition in games but in these you can get locked in and just spend hours running through the same spots leveling up. If someone had've told me that was a big element beforehand, I never would have picked up Bloodborne but, somehow, it works and rarely feels like a chore.