Better Call Saul - Season 4

[BeardFaceMan]

Any chance Kim read Chucks letter and gave Jimmy one that she wrote instead? That letter didnt sound like Chuck at all.

[monolith]

Any chance Kim read Chucks letter and gave Jimmy one that she wrote instead? That letter didnt sound like Chuck at all.

Ah fuck. Good shout.

[Artemis]

Yeah, great call. That didn't dawn on me at all, but they made a point of saying 'for his eyes only' and her reaction was visceral.

I'm going with your theory, even if not official.

[bgmnts]

I need more.

[selectivememory]

The odds must be good we'll get a reference to blue meth before the end of the season.

There would have to be a pretty big jump in time for that, as I think it's still about five years behind the events of Breaking Bad. Not that I'd be against it necessarily, because otherwise it won't be until about Season Eight or Nine that it finally catches up. And as much as I love the show, I think five or six seasons is probably going to be enough.

It is easy to forget how far back in time this is supposed to be because everyone looks so old compared to in BB!

[selectivememory]

Any chance Kim read Chucks letter and gave Jimmy one that she wrote instead? That letter didnt sound like Chuck at all.

I reckon that Chuck did write it, and that he even believed that he meant it, because he probably did support Jimmy when his ambitions appeared to be no greater than working in the mail room. I think he only really realised the depth of his loathing and jealousy of his brother when he found out Jimmy had qualified as a lawyer.

[BeardFaceMan]

I reckon that Chuck did write it, and that he even believed that he meant it, because he probably did support Jimmy when his ambitions appeared to be no greater than working in the mail room. I think he only really realised the depth of his loathing and jealousy of his brother when he found out Jimmy had qualified as a lawyer.

It was the letter being undated that made me pause too, for a lawyer as meticulous as Chuck, would he have done that? It looks like Kim read the letter, saw something awful, wrote a nice letter to try and help Jimmy instead and then got very emotional when Jimmy read the letter as she realised Jimmy doesnt give a fuck about Chuck at all.

[selectivememory]

Yeah, I guess that's equally plausible. Bit of a misjudgement from Kim though if that is the case, as it's not a very nice letter to receive given that what went down between them subsequently made a mockery of everything Chuck (or Kim) wrote. But maybe she had to give him something to replace the real letter and that was the best thing she could think of.

[NoSleep]

Wasn't there a clear point from which Jimmy didn't give a damn about Chuck in the last season? I'm sure Kim would have been aware of this, too (but maybe, somehow, not). And considering how scathing she was about the letter when speaking to Howard it would seem the last thing Kim would have wanted to do was change Jimmy's mind about Chuck.

[up_the_hampipe]

I reckon that Chuck did write it, and that he even believed that he meant it, because he probably did support Jimmy when his ambitions appeared to be no greater than working in the mail room. I think he only really realised the depth of his loathing and jealousy of his brother when he found out Jimmy had qualified as a lawyer.

I think that makes the most sense. Chuck was always happier when he felt far above Jimmy. He wanted to be patting him on the head.

If Kim were to write that letter in the hope of easing Jimmy's pain, she probably would have included references to recent events that might be looming over him. It makes little difference writing something from back when they were on good terms.

[mothman]

Just now remembered this article: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/aug/06/better-call-saul-breaking-bad-vince-gilligan

The third episode, titled Something Beautiful, offers the single most dangerous thing a show's writing staff can give its characters: closure. Chuck leaves a posthumous message for Jimmy that should unravel their decades of bickering and self-imposed inadequacy. Without getting into any specifics, Chuck takes responsibility for himself, gives Jimmy a frank appraisal as a brother and human being, and leaves him with a few pearls of substantive, lasting wisdom. He says things that have been percolating their whole lives, things that viewers have now spent four years waiting for one brother to admit to the other, things that could have ground the show to a screeching halt if uttered while both men were still alive. Jimmy's reaction suggests that he's only damming up an eventual deluge of feelings, which the episodes to come will undoubtedly bear out.

I'm not wholly convinced that is an accurate interpretation of what we see? I do like the idea Kim rewrote the letter but I'm not sure she'd write THAT. Better to just not mention any letter at all and hope Jimmy never socialises with Howard and gets asked about it.

[buttgammon]

I've thought about the letter and surely it was in Chuck's handwriting anyway?

[lankyguy95]

Could've been an old letter.

[Nowhere Man]

I'm in two minds about whether or not Kim wrote the letter. On the one hand it would probably be just as interesting to have Kim cover up the initial letter, but I could also see Chuck writing something like that easily when Jimmy still worked in the mail room, the resentment and anger only really came out after Jimmy became a lawyer/somewhat successful after all. The final scene I think was to show how just how detached Jimmy had become from his brother over the last few seasons, which is why he felt nothing when reading it. (The letter was still pretty condescending anyway)

My feeling is that Jimmy is in a severe state of denial, because deep down he knows that he drove his brother to suicide, which explains his cold hearted response to Howard, and why he is going back to his 'slippin Jimmy' habits in the last two episodes since.

[Desirable Industrial Unit]

I've thought about the letter and surely it was in Chuck's handwriting anyway?

Typewritten I'd guess - just having it signed 'Chuck' would make a forgery easier.  I don't really buy Kim writing it though, but it's possible that's not the letter she was given by Howard.  Is there a point in time that Chuck would have given it to her personally, to be delivered in the event of his death?

Really, though, we're probably overthinking this.  Jimmy reads out a letter that contains his final words to him from his brother, and it's clear that they're several years out of date.  Chuck decided to do this once, and never did it again.  Jimmy doesn't give a fuck what the letter says one way or another.  Kim gets upset because she can't really understand why he's so casual about what, along with the minor cheque, is such a blatant hand-wave by someone who became successful and a little too big for his boots.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

That last scene was incredibly sad. I actually find this programme more 'emotionally resonant' than Breaking Bad.

[Mobius]

Yeah I took Saul's nonchalance as genuine and Kim's tears sincere and also 'christ, my mate Jimmy's dead inside'

[NoSleep]

It was a pretty cold, perfunctory letter (even discounting Jimmy's reading of it).

[jobotic]

This thing of them looking older hasn't bothered me at all, but last night after watching this we watched the "Better Call Saul" episode of breaking Bad. Bob Odenkirk has shifted a few pounds since that was made but he does look a hell of a lot younger too. it was very hard to convince my brain that these events took place years after the ones I'd just watched in episode 3. Won't be doing that again.   

[NoSleep]

Maybe Kim was crying because Jimmy had always wanted to hear those words from Chuck (and he had always been a brother to Chuck) and, now that they arrived, Jimmy no longer had time for them.

[Spoon of Ploff]

Hello,

Really enjoying this series (season), and this thread.

For what its worth I think the letter is from Chuck, and I think Kim's response is due to Jimmy's nonchalance, but also to bland contents of the letter itself. She's witnessed a lot of intense emotion between the two brothers over the last few years, and she was hoping to see some of that displayed again. A genuine response from Jimmy in other words. Earlier in the episode we see her zoning out when her clients show her all the miniature buildings and explain their expansion plans. She zones out again in front of the large corporate logo. There's a definite shift in attitude there too - handing over tasks she would previously have done herself. I'm thinking she's realized what a great opportunity this is if it's done right, and she can't really do that with Jimmy around - handing him the letter was meant as a test to see if there was enough of the old Jimmy left to change her mind.

Don't know what her trip to the courthouse signified though.

[NoSleep]

I thought some of the zoning out at the client's display might have been because they had expanded their operation so quickly and "aggressively", as Kim put it. Maybe she thinks they have bitten off more than they can chew. Also, that's suddenly a whole lot more work for her to handle (maybe that's more to the point in the story).

[mothman]

With that kind of expansion they need a full time legal department. Maybe that opportunity (possibly with some sort of salaried partnership) will signal Kim's increasing respectability (in the field of law) which will distance her further from Jimmy - and his own antics will do the same.

[Petey Pate]

Just found out that a young Giancarlo Esposito (Gus Fring) appeared in Trading Places. He's stood next to Eddie Murphy in jail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WMErc1n6Ks

[Paaaaul]

Was there a Twin Peaks homage in this episode?
Kim looking up at the statue?

[Petey Pate]

Wasn't there a clear point from which Jimmy didn't give a damn about Chuck in the last season? I'm sure Kim would have been aware of this, too (but maybe, somehow, not).

Jimmy probably never relayed to her what Chuck said to him when they last met ('the truth is you've never mattered that much to me'). If there was a clear point where Jimmy stopped caring about Chuck, it was then.

[NoSleep]

The turning point must have been before their last meeting as it was Jimmy's change of attitude that led to him acting against Chuck (for instance, the court). I need to remind myself of the last season (maybe I should have rewatched it, being so long ago now). And Kim was assisting Jimmy while he was in his "fuck Chuck" mode.

[New Jack]

Yay, the fish!

Maybe Kim was crying because Jimmy had always wanted to hear those words from Chuck (and he had always been a brother to Chuck) and, now that they arrived, Jimmy no longer had time for them.

That was a rubbish letter, and very in-keeping with Chuck's attitude. He wouldn't have written a sympathetic letter after Jimmy tried to be a lawyer.

I believe it was Chuck's, nobody else faking it would have dated it to Jimmy working in the mail room. Kim would have put in more closure; indeed, isn't that the only reason she'd do it?

The letter is a classic Chuck move. The fact it's from the mail room era implicitly serves as a Fuck You to everything that came after, for both the content and the mere fact he never bothered to rewrite it; he could never validate Jimmy after he tried to become a lawyer.

But it's not a bad letter. It just suffers from being old, and not addressing the context now. As Jimmy says, it's a nice letter. That line, and Kim's reaction to me, showed me it was not a reaction to the letter alone.

I think this was a Kim episode in places. She's shouted at Howard, defended Jimmy the whole way, gotten emotionally invested, just to see the guy she's sided with reject - and for me this is the key thing - her effort, her caring, her involvement.

Not seeing things the same as your partner can be a hell of a wake up call, but over his brother's grisly death, who has been entangled in his, and your, life for years? Wow. I totally understood how alienated Kim must feel - like with the Mesa Verde work looming, knowing she's already risked death just to survive for more work, absolutely none of her efforts with Jimmy have paid off.

I think Kim is absolutely crying for herself. I think her closing the door behind her is proof it's not for Jimmy, or his business. She must feel such a fool.

[mothman]

Was there a Twin Peaks homage in this episode?
Kim looking up at the statue?

Seems unlikely, but I wondered too. Perhaps it represents the small, adventurous business Kim wanted to represent, that Mesa Verde was, while the future plans with all the models to her represents a nascent corporate behemoth of the kind she left HHM to escape.

[SpiderChrist]

Yay, the fish!

That was a rubbish letter, and very in-keeping with Chuck's attitude. He wouldn't have written a sympathetic letter after Jimmy tried to be a lawyer.

I believe it was Chuck's, nobody else faking it would have dated it to Jimmy working in the mail room. Kim would have put in more closure; indeed, isn't that the only reason she'd do it?

The letter is a classic Chuck move. The fact it's from the mail room era implicitly serves as a Fuck You to everything that came after, for both the content and the mere fact he never bothered to rewrite it; he could never validate Jimmy after he tried to become a lawyer.

But it's not a bad letter. It just suffers from being old, and not addressing the context now. As Jimmy says, it's a nice letter. That line, and Kim's reaction to me, showed me it was not a reaction to the letter alone.

I think this was a Kim episode in places. She's shouted at Howard, defended Jimmy the whole way, gotten emotionally invested, just to see the guy she's sided with reject - and for me this is the key thing - her effort, her caring, her involvement.

Not seeing things the same as your partner can be a hell of a wake up call, but over his brother's grisly death, who has been entangled in his, and your, life for years? Wow. I totally understood how alienated Kim must feel - like with the Mesa Verde work looming, knowing she's already risked death just to survive for more work, absolutely none of her efforts with Jimmy have paid off.

I think Kim is absolutely crying for herself. I think her closing the door behind her is proof it's not for Jimmy, or his business. She must feel such a fool.

Yarp - this is what me and Mrs SpiderChrist said last night, more or less.