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Better Call Saul - Season 4

Started by lankyguy95, May 31, 2018, 11:32:44 PM

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NoSleep

Just realised that the other reason for Gale's appearance was to contrast his innocent triumph at the work with the grimness that preceded it (and, of course, echoing Gale's own ultimate demise; also connected with that site).

monolith

I felt like the writers lacked a bit of courage with regards to Werner's end. It was still awful but having him save his wife didn't make much sense to me, can't imagine Gus wouldn't have had questions as to why she suddenly turned around and went back to the airport and he would have found out that it was Mike. Seemed to be glossed over a little bit, think they should have just done away with her. It would have been horrible but it's not like we knew her.

NoSleep

I guess his wife knows Werner's business is criminal and knew that she always had to keep quiet. That still doesn't really explain why it's more important that he has to die rather than put back to work.

I'd be more worried that Lalo was on to her at this stage. And there's the matter of a (presumably) dead banking clerk (and phone calls made in the bank around the time of his death; I'd imagine the footage of Mike & Werner may have been destroyed as Lalo covers his own tracks through that way).

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: monolith on October 09, 2018, 07:03:39 PM
I felt like the writers lacked a bit of courage with regards to Werner's end. It was still awful but having him save his wife didn't make much sense to me, can't imagine Gus wouldn't have had questions as to why she suddenly turned around and went back to the airport and he would have found out that it was Mike. Seemed to be glossed over a little bit, think they should have just done away with her. It would have been horrible but it's not like we knew her.

I dunno. Gus is a ruthless murderer who doesn't think twice about killing people who get in his way, but was Werner's wife actually a threat to his operation at that stage?

He'd sent his goons to meet her at the airport, in the hope that they'd find her with Werner. When Mike informed Gus that he'd found Werner and was about to 'take care' of him, Mrs Werner became irrelevant as far as Gus was concerned.

Mike explained to Werner that Gus will scupper her inevitable investigation into his disappearance with crooked lawyers and paid-off cops, which, as far as Gus is concerned, is a much cleaner way of solving that problem. Killing her at that point would only lead to more headaches, as their friends and family would presumably be quite keen to solve the mystery of why a nice, middle-aged German couple were murdered on American soil.

Gus would end up having to kill everyone who poked their nose in, which is crazy and not his style at all. He's nothing if not logical.

Also, he trusts Mike. Or rather, he wanted to test Mike's loyalty by allowing him to kill Werner. That was the turning point in their professional relationship: Gus can now rely on Mike to commit dirty deeds when required.

In the next season, I expect we'll see Mike struggling with his guilty conscience while plunging ever deeper into an underworld of violence and murder: the birth of the Mike we initially met in Breaking Bad.

What a show this is, it's brilliantly written.   

BeardFaceMan

Quote from: NoSleep on October 09, 2018, 07:32:26 PM
I guess his wife knows Werner's business is criminal and knew that she always had to keep quiet. That still doesn't really explain why it's more important that he has to die rather than put back to work.


Because he was a liability. He's proven he can't be trusted, he was trusted to do the job so why would he now be trusted not to talk about it afterwards (not to mention he'd already slipped up once by talking about it in a bar). Even putting him back to work is a risk as now that he cant be trusted theres no way of knowing what he'll do down there or if he'll try and escape again. And they went to great lengths to hide their location from the Germans and now Werner knows exactly where the lab is. From Gus' point of view theres no other way it could have played out, as soon as Werner left that lab he signed his own death warrant and he should have known that too. Silly old sausage.

mjwilson

So is there another season then? That felt like a satisfactory end to the story.

NoSleep

Quote from: BeardFaceMan on October 09, 2018, 09:41:46 PM
And they went to great lengths to hide their location from the Germans and now Werner knows exactly where the lab is.

This. Of course. All the "boring stuff" people were complaining about when Mike & Gus were getting quotes from prospective crews. This season has been a magnificently slow pulling-back of the bow to deliver all the hits in the finale.

Gulftastic

The moment when Kim realised she'd been suckered in like the review panel. Fucking hell. You could see her heart breaking. I hope the actress is up for some awards.

buttgammon

That was absolutely brilliant, the best episode of the series. It was great to see Michael McKean again, and I loved the Jimmy and Chuck scenes at the start. The next series is set up very; what a shame we have a year (or more?) to wait for the next move.

As for Werner, his fate was sealed from the moment he was talking to those guys in the bar, they couldn't trust him after that. There was a grim inevitability from that point onwards, and I can't have been the only person who spent the whole episode anticipating his death. I guess it was fortunate for Gus et al that he'd already got so much of the work done before attempting to leg it, as they'd have been left with a very expensive, messy white elephant otherwise.

Ja'moke

I can't believe they spent so much of the finale (and season) on the lab/Germans plot. I mean, it was brilliantly acted and beautifully shot, particularly that scene in the desert, but I just couldn't get invested in the story or characters. If the point was to show Mike's turn to a more violent path, I believe there were other, more entertaining, ways to show that. And the lab still isn't finished.. so most of Season 5 will probably be spent on it too.

The Jimmy and Kim  stuff continues to be excellent though, especially that whole final scene.

Pseudopath

Quote from: mjwilson on October 09, 2018, 10:21:08 PM
So is there another season then? That felt like a satisfactory end to the story.

Season 5 has already been commissioned. I kind of get where you're coming from if the whole arc of the series is how Jimmy became Saul. However, there are still some interesting threads to be resolved, such as why Kim, Nacho and Lalo aren't in Breaking Bad (although the latter two are obviously referred to by name) or what happens to Gene/Saul/Jimmy in the flash-forward timeline.

I am a bit worried that they're just going to keep adding surprise BB characters to string it out (Hank would be an obvious contender), but the writers haven't let us down so far...well apart from the fact that Jimmy wasn't actually that bad a singer in Season 2 (when he sang Bali Ha'i to Kim's answering machine).

NoSleep

That was later than the karaoke clip, so he may have improved a little (or was slightly less drunk). Bob Odenkirk's singing voice has always been a little hit or miss (unlike Mike St. Hubbins McKean).

Rich Uncle Skeleton

Always happy to hear Michael McKean sing!

Dex Sawash

Can't wait for the prequel covering the backstory of Werner's Discreet  Basement Additions Company.
Wonder if there is a single word for Discreet  Basement Additions Company in german?

mjwilson

Quote from: Pseudopath on October 09, 2018, 10:53:03 PM
Season 5 has already been commissioned. I kind of get where you're coming from if the whole arc of the series is how Jimmy became Saul. However, there are still some interesting threads to be resolved, such as why Kim, Nacho and Lalo aren't in Breaking Bad (although the latter two are obviously referred to by name) or what happens to Gene/Saul/Jimmy in the flash-forward timeline.

None of that is of great interest to me, and certainly if the show had ended there we could extrapolate the reasons for Kim's absence from the look on her face in this episode. The other stuff is secondary at best, and probably isn't enough to bring me back for another season.

NoSleep

For one, I want to know what's in the shoebox Saul Goodman embeds in the wall of his new office.

DrGreggles

I thought the idea was that BCS covers before, during and after BB?
Plenty more life in this yet.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Ja'moke on October 09, 2018, 10:41:07 PM
And the lab still isn't finished.. so most of Season 5 will probably be spent on it too.

That seems unlikely, as the last two episodes of the most recent season skipped a year ahead. The lab is basically complete.

up_the_hampipe

I liked the finale, but it didn't feel like a finale. This season felt like it was treading water a bit. I was expecting it to really build to something huge and then it just ended with yet another tease of Jimmy "becoming" Saul. Very well shot and performed though.

Is this the first time Mike has killed someone since those cops that killed his son?

NoSleep

Remember the time when he was trying to avoid killing people and some innocent bystander got wasted in the process? I think those days are long gone if you're working for a guy who's building a crystal meth factory; part of Mike must already be dead inside.

jake thunder

It's Boardwalk Empire to Breaking Band's Sopranos. Same style, plotting etc.... But I just don't give a shit.

Fell asleep in the last ten minutes of the finale. I think my brain's trying to tell me something.

Really liked the finale myself, although I can see why some might find it underwhelming. I do love that it's resolutely remaining a slow-paced character study.

If Season 5 is the final season (doing more seasons than Breaking Bad does seem overkill) then that final scene is a great launchpad into it.

And regarding the timeline, I'd be very surprised if we didn't see a lot more of Cinnabon Jene. An episode focused on him to wrap up the whole series would be great.

NoSleep

And yet all the Gene sequences focus on his absolute paranoia, like the days of Jimmy and Saul (& BB) are truly out of the window.

EOLAN

Enjoyed that so I did. Kept thinking about Ted Danson in Curb Your Enthusiasm when they were going through the not so anonymous 'Anonymous Donor' routine, which took me out of it slightly.
Didn't totally but the Kim realisation at the end. Seemed to play it too much that she felt Jimmy had reconciled himself with Chuck's passing; whereas given how heavily she was involved in assisting with a lot of the insincere emotions about Chuck; I couldn't buy that she was surprised Jimmy still didn't care for her brother. If anything after the race and adrenaline was over and there was no more effectively pranks to carry out; she suddenly realised how far she had been removed from the professional lawyer SHE wants to be.


lankyguy95

Quote from: Old Gold Tooth on October 10, 2018, 12:02:49 PM
If Season 5 is the final season (doing more seasons than Breaking Bad does seem overkill) then that final scene is a great launchpad into it.
I'm pretty sure there's going to be at least a couple more seasons. They've got to answer the question as to why Kim isn't in BB. Lalo's presumably going to be a big feature and his mention in BB means that there's definitely going to be some sort of involvement with him and Jimmy/Saul. And there will of course be some new unforeseen strands that the writers come up with (like the Germans in this season), as well as whatever they decide to do with Gene. Given how slowly they've been taking things, they won't wrap that all up in one season.

Plus, I'm pretty sure we'll get some more major BB additions. Hank's one you can imagine featuring. I can see them getting Jesse in as well.

Puce Moment

I do think that this will run for 6 seasons, with next year covering Jimmy finally becoming Saul, and then a final season dealing with material leading up to or slightly overlapping with BB, and then focusing on his post-BB life.

olliebean

Quote from: Rich Uncle Skeleton on October 10, 2018, 12:17:49 AM
Always happy to hear Michael McKean sing!

Missed opportunity to have him sing Big Bottom, I reckon.

NoSleep

Quote from: lankyguy95 on October 10, 2018, 01:19:36 PM
Lalo's presumably going to be a big feature and his mention in BB means that there's definitely going to be some sort of involvement with him and Jimmy/Saul.

And the return of Tuco from prison to become the meth kingpin. I'm sure him and Lalo have recipes to exchange. And they both have reasons to be interested in Mike.

lankyguy95

^
Had completely forgotten about Tuco.

kngen

What was Lalo's mention in Breaking Bad, btw? I don't recall at all, thus his introduction on BCS was less of deal for me.