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Robocop (robotic police officer film)

Started by St_Eddie, June 03, 2018, 03:29:52 AM

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sevendaughters

original rightly becoming acknowledged as the masterpiece it is. all else, except the game on the C64 where you had to shoot the perp past the woman like in the film AND THAT'S IT, is false metal. we're all techno cops now, Manish.

Operty1

I remember Peter Weller saying they filmed a lot of stuff that didn't end up in Robocop 2 that was supposed to show Murphy struggling with his robot/human side. These few deleted scenes show a little bit of that, especially his pervy looks at the woman in the shower.


https://youtu.be/8CU2zjgjVl0

This also gives an idea of some of the stuff removed

https://youtu.be/X6LERMBwHNE

St_Eddie

Quote from: Operty1 on June 04, 2018, 10:02:02 PM
I remember Peter Weller saying they filmed a lot of stuff that didn't end up in Robocop 2 that was supposed to show Murphy struggling with his robot/human side. These few deleted scenes show a little bit of that, especially his pervy looks at the woman in the shower.


https://youtu.be/8CU2zjgjVl0

This also gives an idea of some of the stuff removed

https://youtu.be/X6LERMBwHNE

Thank you for the links.  My three movie Blu-Ray set, rather criminally, has exactly zero bonus features.  They should have replaced the Robocop 3 disc tea coaster, with a bounty of extras.

Rolf Lundgren

Quote from: Operty1 on June 04, 2018, 10:02:02 PM
I remember Peter Weller saying they filmed a lot of stuff that didn't end up in Robocop 2 that was supposed to show Murphy struggling with his robot/human side.

Such a shame they didn't use it. If you don't have that struggle, then there's nothing special about him being a Robocop. He could be generic normal cop but the title isn't as snappy.

Operty1

Quote from: St_Eddie on June 04, 2018, 11:09:07 PM
Thank you for the links.  My three movie Blu-Ray set, rather criminally, has exactly zero bonus features.  They should have replaced the Robocop 3 disc tea coaster, with a bounty of extras.

There seems scant info on what was filmed and cut for Robocop 2, everybody involved seems to have shunned it and never wants to talk about it, from the director down. Odd, as lesser movies have more extras thrown at them for their home release. Every now and again little bits and pieces come through, like the fells who played Catzo, the Elvis fella who seemed to vanish at the start, was interviewed

http://www.manlymovie.net/2016/01/info-on-cut-robocop-2-fight-scene-unearthed.html

Would love a complete version, there must be loads of bits lying around.

Shit Good Nose

I'll just repeat what I said on a previous page about Shout Factory's recent blu ray release - it's chock full of extras:
Audio commentary with Author/CG Supervisor Paul M. Sammon
Audio commentary with "RoboDoc: The Creation of RoboCop" Team
"Corporate Wars: The Making of RoboCop 2" documentary (32:04)
"Machine Parts: The FX of RoboCop 2" documentary (31:36)
"Robo-Fabricator" Interview with RoboCop armor fabricator James Belohovek (8:47)
"OCP Declassified" archival clips (45:50)
"Adapting Frank Miller's RoboCop 2" Interview with comic book writer Steven Grant (5:55)
Deleted Scenes Gallery (2:34)
Behind-the-Scenes Gallery (0:46)
Still Gallery (9:07)
Theatrical Trailer (1:56)
Teaser Trailers (1:56)
TV Spots (1:04)

Operty1

Choc full of shit extras. Who wants to listen to commentaries by none of the main players?

This is more interesting:

https://robocop2directive5.blogspot.com

And it doesn't even feature the Robocop 2 music video of 'The kid goes wild' that's playing when Robo is busting up the arcade:

https://youtu.be/N6rE6YGBKzk




saltysnacks

Quote from: popcorn on June 04, 2018, 06:21:05 AM
I have long maintained that a major part of Robocop's brilliance is his plump, kissable lips.





Oh my!

St_Eddie

It's interesting to me that Robocop gets labeled as a science-fiction film.  It is, of course but arguably, more than that, it's a superhero film.  It never seems to get described as such though, which I find odd.

Robocop has all of the hallmarks of a superhero story; the extraordinary origin of the character's super powers; the arch-nemesis and his cronies (that the hero has a personal vendetta against); a plucky sidekick; the duality of personality (the everyman and the heroic mask which he wears to fight crime) and a bunch of scenes of the protagonist fighting crime throughout the city.

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on June 04, 2018, 11:36:52 PM
I'll just repeat what I said on a previous page about Shout Factory's recent blu ray release - it's chock full of extras...

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Shout Factory in the business of releasing American region Blu-Rays?  If so, then they won't work on my PS3, as far as I'm aware.

Steven

Quote from: St_Eddie on June 05, 2018, 12:52:32 AM
Robocop has all of the hallmarks of a superhero story; the extraordinary origin of the character's super powers; the arch-nemesis and his cronies (that the hero has a personal vendetta against); a plucky sidekick; the duality of personality (the everyman and the heroic mask which he wears to fight crime) and a bunch of scenes of the protagonist fighting crime throughout the city.

It's a la mode to be all Robocop is a Christ allegory up in this motherfucker these days, like E.T. or Flubber.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Steven on June 05, 2018, 01:27:24 AM
It's a la mode to be all Robocop is a Christ allegory up in this motherfucker these days, like E.T. or Flubber.

Well, yes.  It's well known that Verhoeven was thematically making a Christ allegory with Robocop.  I'm not sure how that discredits my belief that the film follows the superhero formula and the relevant genre tropes though (or how it discredits Verhoeven's thematic intents, for that matter). 

Steven

Quote from: St_Eddie on June 05, 2018, 01:48:15 AM
I'm not sure how that discredits my belief that the film follows the superhero formula and the relevant genre tropes though (or how it discredits Verhoeven's thematic intents, for that matter).

And I'm not sure where I tried to discredit your belief that the film follows the superhero formula and the relevant genre tropes, I simply mentioned it was 'a la mode' to describe it as a Christ allegory, like many other films like E.T. or even Ripley in your Alien3s.


Shaky

Do we reckon the reconstituted Alex Murphy in the original film has a willy? Because the one in the remake definitely doesn't.

St_Eddie

#73
Quote from: Steven on June 05, 2018, 01:57:18 AM
And I'm not sure where I tried to discredit your belief that the film follows the superhero formula and the relevant genre tropes, I simply mentioned it was 'a la mode' to describe it as a Christ allegory, like many other films like E.T. or even Ripley in your Alien3s.

Your use of the phrase 'a la mode' and your mentioning of Flubber, of all things, made it seem as though you were being snarky towards Verhoeven's intent and by association, my superhero genre related post (seeming as you made that comment via quoting my otherwise seemingly unrelated post).  If I'm wrong, I apologise.

As to your point; I can't speak for Spielberg's E.T. but I'm unsure as to why you're saying that it's currently a la mode to describe Robocop or the ending of Alien 3 as being Christ allegories, when that's clearly the intent of the filmmakers themselves.  That's not a la mode, that's simply pointing out either obvious subtext or in the case of Robocop, the subtext which has been confirmed as being intentional by the filmmaker himself, many times over in interviews.  It's just a natural path that branches off from delving into film analysis.

Unless I missed a memo and it's in vogue to make valid observations and to cite facts.  If it is, then it would make a nice change from the usual shite that people waffle on about.

Quote from: Shaky on June 05, 2018, 02:05:24 AM
Do we reckon the reconstituted Alex Murphy in the original film has a willy? Because the one in the remake definitely doesn't.

Obvious joke in...

3...

2...

1...

Robocock.

Steven

Quote from: Shaky on June 05, 2018, 02:05:24 AM
Do we reckon the reconstituted Alex Murphy in the original film has a willy? Because the one in the remake definitely doesn't.

Certainly could retain some element of sexuality whether sans-penis or not, as with my preposed porn verion:

Quote from: Steven on September 13, 2013, 08:23:14 PM
Someone should do a porn version called Robocoprophile, where a policeman is shot to death while 'on the job' and is res-erected using mechanical 'parts' to form a futuristic sex-cyborg, who's prime-erectives are to lay under a glass table and say "Your move, creep!"

Quote from: St_Eddie on June 05, 2018, 02:09:45 AM
Your use of the phrase 'a la mode' and your mentioning of Flubber, of all things, made it seem as though you were being snarky towards Verhoeven's intent and by association, my superhero genre related post (seeming as you made that comment via quoting my seemingly unrelated post).

I was mentioning the Christ-allegory in case anybody wasn;t aware of the interpretation, and I've heard it touted generally not directly from Verhoeven, the Flubber reference was a quick attempt at a joke - E.T. is another film interpreted as a Christ allegory, what stupid film can I reference that is incongruous to that? Flubber.

QuoteAs to your point; I can't speak for Spielberg's E.T. but I'm unsure as to why you're saying that it's a la mode to describe Robocop or the ending of Alien 3 as being Christ allegories, when that's clearly the intent of the filmmakers themselves.  That's not a la mode, that's simply pointing out either obvious subtext or in the case of Robocop, the subtext which has been confirmed as being intentional by the filmmaker himself, many times over in interviews.

I defintely didn't get the Christ allegory being obvious on first watch, but I would have been a child at the time, the Ripley one gets a bit heavy-handed with the diving Cross-pose I suppose. 'a la mode' refers to a tendency to get a glut of articles listing a bunch of films being of a certain interpretation, in some ways it strikes me as a form of revisionism, like there was a wearying trend in the mid-90s for academics or journalists to start reevaluating everything as gay, I remember articles about the real Robin Hood being gay because it was blokes wearing tights hanging about in the woods together etc.....

Quote
Robocock.

Get out.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Steven on June 05, 2018, 02:37:44 AM
I was mentioning the Christ-allegory in case anybody wasn;t aware of the interpretation, and I've heard it touted generally not directly from Verhoeven...

I've heard it said by Verhoeven himself, across multiple on-camera interviews.  It is definitely a valid interpretation of the film because it was absolutely his intent when making the film.  It's not something that I would have picked up on myself but once it's pointed out to you; yeah, it's definitely there.

Quote from: Steven on June 05, 2018, 02:37:44 AM...'a la mode' refers to a tendency to get a glut of articles listing a bunch of films being of a certain interpretation, in some ways it strikes me as a form of revisionism...

I don't doubt this happens.  However, your choice of examples (specifically Robocop and the ending of Alien 3) were poor choices to use, in order to illustrate your point because in those cases, it's not revisionism for somebody to note those allegories.  Those allegories are the direct intent of the filmmakers themselves.

Glebe

It's a classic, though it has to said, it rather blatantly rips off Judge Dredd... if fact, they were possibly thinking of doing a direct adaptation, if this early concept maquette is anything to go by:


St_Eddie

Quote from: Glebe on June 05, 2018, 02:48:23 AM
It's a classic, though it has to said, it rather blatantly rips off Judge Dredd... if fact, they were possibly thinking of doing a direct adaptation, if this early concept maquette is anything to go by:



Is that genuinely an early maquette for Robocop?  If so, wow!  Either at some point it was a direct adaptation or one of the lawyers at Orion Pictures started sweating when they saw it and quickly told them to change the design.

Steven

Quote from: St_Eddie on June 05, 2018, 02:47:08 AM
I don't doubt this happens.  However, your choice of examples (specifically Robocop and the ending of Alien 3) were poor choices to use, in order to illustrate your point because in those cases, it's not revisionism for somebody to note those allegories.  Those allegories are the direct intent of the filmmakers themselves.

I don't agree, Alien 3 maybe is fairly overt but I've only heard the Christ metaphor referred to by writers or fans and not the filmmakers themselves until today. But Verhoeven is only saying about the Jesus interpretation lately, I don't necessarily believe he meant it to be while in the making. Is there anything in the original movie that overtly points to that beside from Robocop walking through some water supposedly being a Christ-symbolism "walking on the water" moment when there's loads of movies people do that which obviously aren't?

Glebe

Quote from: St_Eddie on June 05, 2018, 02:52:33 AMIs that genuinely an early maquette for Robocop?  If so, wow!  Either at some point it was a direct adaptation or one of the lawyers at Orion Pictures started sweating when they saw it and quickly told them to change the design.

See doco Future Shock! The Story of 2000AD for more info... also features some interesting stuff about how 1990 cult SF Hardware ripped off another 2000AD story.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Steven on June 05, 2018, 03:02:09 AM
I don't agree, Alien 3 maybe is fairly overt but I've only heard the Christ metaphor referred to by writers or fans and not the filmmakers themselves until today. But Verhoeven is only saying about the Jesus interpretation lately, I don't necessarily believe he meant it to be while in the making. Is there anything in the original movie that overtly points to that beside from Robocop walking through some water supposedly being a Christ-symbolism "walking on the water" moment when there's loads of movies people do that which obviously aren't?

I've never heard anyone from the production talk about the symbolism of Ripley's Christ pose in Alien 3 but like you say; it's overt and on the nose.  So much so, that's it's almost certainly the intent.  It's ridiculous to think that David Fincher and Sigourney Weaver did that purely through happenstance (especially when you consider the implications of her character's sacrifice).

As for Verhoeven and the Christ allegory of Robocop, I guess one would have to dig through archival footage which was filmed during the production, to see if he ever mentioned it at the time but you know what?  I'm willing to take him at his word.  Verhoeven is an incredibly talented filmmaker and someone who is all about making thematic statements, allegories and filming symbolic shots.  If he claims that it was his intent to make a Christ allegory whilst filming Robocop, then I'm inclined to believe him.  I see no reason not to.

Quote from: Glebe on June 05, 2018, 03:02:21 AM
See doco Future Shock! The Story of 2000AD for more info... also features some interesting stuff about how 1990 cult SF Hardware ripped off another 2000AD story.

I've actually already seen Future Shock! The Story of 2000AD.  It was a while ago though, so I must have forgotten about the relevant section.

Oh and I have a soft spot for Richard Stanley's unofficial 2000AD film, Hardware.  It's a very cheesy but effective B-movie (and horribly but appropriately claustrophobic and sweat inducing)  I've still got my boxed VHS tape of it, from back when I was a teenager.

phantom_power

Robocop is possible my favourite film of all time ever of all time. I am typing this while drinking coffee from my Robocop mug (robocup). I didn't see it for about ten years and when I watched it again I knew pretty much every word. The film, particularly the first half hour, is endlessly quotable. Practically every line is a killer. The extreme violence and silliness appealed to my younger self and the satire appeals to my older self so it is a rare film that I love just as much now as I did when I was 15, and not just due to nostalgia.

A lot of people don't believe me when I say it is my favourite film but then I think usually that is because they haven't seen it. The title does the film no favours in regard to being taken seriously

popcorn

One of the bits that really stays with me in Robocop is when one of the baddies gets toxic acid (that 80s staple) spilled on him and basically becomes a disabled person. He clutches his mate and gasps "help me!" and his mate goes "Don't touch me, man!!" I'm not sure what it means.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: Operty1 on June 05, 2018, 12:04:58 AM
Choc full of shit extras. Who wants to listen to commentaries by none of the main players?

The extras are excellent, including both commentaries.


Quote from: St_Eddie on June 05, 2018, 12:52:32 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Shout Factory in the business of releasing American region Blu-Rays?  If so, then they won't work on my PS3, as far as I'm aware.

You ARE correct, but just get a multi-region player - plenty of places over here sell them these days and you can get one for about £130.  And it opens you up to a whole new world of wonder.

I regularly hear on CaB "oh but it's an American blu ray only", like that's some massive blockage to enjoyment.  Don't understand it at all.


Quote from: Glebe on June 05, 2018, 02:48:23 AM
It's a classic, though it has to said, it rather blatantly rips off Judge Dredd... if fact, they were possibly thinking of doing a direct adaptation, if this early concept maquette is anything to go by:



Dredd was one of the main influences for the early look of Robocop (I think before Rob Bottin was brought on), but yeah - that's not even verging on plagiarism.  It's already right in the middle of it.


Quote from: Steven on June 05, 2018, 03:02:09 AM
I don't agree, Alien 3 maybe is fairly overt but I've only heard the Christ metaphor referred to by writers or fans and not the filmmakers themselves until today. But Verhoeven is only saying about the Jesus interpretation lately, I don't necessarily believe he meant it to be while in the making. Is there anything in the original movie that overtly points to that beside from Robocop walking through some water supposedly being a Christ-symbolism "walking on the water" moment when there's loads of movies people do that which obviously aren't?

As St_Eddie mentioned in a previous post, Verhoeven has mentioned it several times over the years (not just recently), and it was already a recurring theme in his work - particularly cf. Turkish Delight, The Fourth Man and Flesh + Blood - so it's definitely there by design.  It's been a long time since I've listened to it, but I think it's in the commentary for Robocop that he also acknowledges that his use of christian symbolism is intentionally NOT subtle - he has quite strong religious beliefs (although many of them are out of step with traditional christianity - he's quite high up in the Jesus Seminar group), so it's not really surprising that a lot of his films have that influence, whether it's overt to the viewer or not.


Quote from: popcorn on June 05, 2018, 08:37:12 AM
One of the bits that really stays with me in Robocop is when one of the baddies gets toxic acid (that 80s staple) spilled on him and basically becomes a disabled person. He clutches his mate and gasps "help me!" and his mate goes "Don't touch me, man!!" I'm not sure what it means.

Well, he doesn't get it spilled on him - he drives right into an enormous vat of it and takes a toxic waste bath.  Leon doesn't want Emil to touch him because Emil is melting and, understandably, Leon doesn't want to melt as well.  Whilst the christ allegory stuff is definitely there, I don't think there's much more to that scene than that.

St_Eddie

#84
Quote from: phantom_power on June 05, 2018, 08:30:36 AM
A lot of people don't believe me when I say it is my favourite film but then I think usually that is because they haven't seen it. The title does the film no favours in regard to being taken seriously

Indeed.  Anyone who's seen Robocop shouldn't have a hard time believing that it could be someone's favourite film.  It's a masterpiece of cinema, one which is as engaging within its subtext, as it is at a surface level.  They really don't make 'em like this anymore (because Hollywood no longer has the balls to produce this caliber of mainstream, big-budgeted, R-rated entertainment, with a significant bite, directed by an auteur who's left to his own devices; you need look no further than the remake for proof of this).

However, as you say, the title does the film no favours in convincing those who haven't watched it before, of just how great of a film it is.  Once you've seen the film, the title is perfect and it's next to impossible to think of a more suitable (not to mention, straight to the point) moniker for the film but it's a shame that it gives off the impression of being a daft slice of hokum and schlock to the uninitiated.

Quote from: popcorn on June 05, 2018, 08:37:12 AM
One of the bits that really stays with me in Robocop is when one of the baddies gets toxic acid (that 80s staple) spilled on him and basically becomes a disabled person. He clutches his mate and gasps "help me!" and his mate goes "Don't touch me, man!!" I'm not sure what it means.

That's my favourite scene in the entire film.  Even though Emil is a callous and irredeemably vile bastard, I can't help but feel sympathy for him during his death scene.  It's such a relentlessly cruel fate to befall anyone, no matter how egregious they were in life.  I can almost feel his pain; the chemical taste, akin to bleach, hitting the back of his throat; the acidic burning sensation, covering every inch of his skin; his insides corroding with every passing second.

When Emil lifts himself up, from off of the floor and sees the bones of his fingers, with the skin and flesh of his hands, hanging from him like melted gloves, it's just horrendous.  When he grabs his mate, pleading for help and the guy looks at him in absolute horror and pushes him away, one can only imagine the ghastly realisation of what his face now looks like, to warrant such a reaction, feels like.  Agony, fear, panic, desperation.  His liquefied body being eviscerated by Clarence's car, like a gloopy sack of putrefied and tenderised meats, is the perfect punchline to one of the greatest and most grizzly gags ever committed to film.

I. Fucking. Love. It.

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on June 05, 2018, 08:46:09 AM
You ARE correct, but just get a multi-region player - plenty of places over here sell them these days and you can get one for about £130.  And it opens you up to a whole new world of wonder.

I regularly hear on CaB "oh but it's an American blu ray only", like that's some massive blockage to enjoyment.  Don't understand it at all.

I think that you're overestimating my available funds for luxury items.  I can scarcely afford to keep up to date with my bills and I have to budget for food and other essentials (what with being unemployed and on disabilities).  I'll buy a multi-region Blu-Ray player at some point but realistically, it will be quite some time before I find myself in a position to do so, particularly as I have a ridiculously long list of luxury items that I'd love to buy, all ready (but can't afford to).

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: St_Eddie on June 05, 2018, 09:16:46 AM
I think that you're overestimating my available funds for luxury items.  I can scarcely afford to keep up to date with my bills and I have to budget for food and other essentials (what with being unemployed and on disabilities).  I'll buy a multi-region Blu-Ray player at some point but realistically, it will be quite some time before I find myself in a position to do so, particularly as I have a ridiculously long list of luxury items I'd love to buy all ready (but can't afford to).

Fair doos - I didn't mean to cause offence, and hope I didn't.

Don't get me wrong - it's not as if I've got loads of money to splash around.  I saved up for a player for a few months, and 90% of my luxury item purchases are film related (plus most of the DVDs and blu rays I "buy" I get with Amazon points from my credit card, which I use as a debit card, so I effectively get them for free).  But when I read "but it's an American only blu ray", and then those same CaBbers then go on to say how much they spend on booze, fags and/or weed...  I guess it helps that I don't have any vices like that.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on June 05, 2018, 09:23:17 AM
Fair doos - I didn't mean to cause offence, and hope I didn't.

Don't get me wrong - it's not as if I've got loads of money to splash around.  I saved up for a player for a few months, and 90% of my luxury item purchases are film related (plus most of the DVDs and blu rays I "buy" I get with Amazon points from my credit card, which I use as a debit card, so I effectively get them for free).  But when I read "but it's an American only blu ray", and then those same CaBbers then go on to say how much they spend on booze, fags and/or weed...  I guess it helps that I don't have any vices like that.

No worries.  No offense taken.  To be fair, I do spend a fair bit on booze (I only drink twice a week but when I do, I do).  However, getting pissed a couple of times a week is one of the only means I have of escaping from my miserable existence for a brief amount of time, so I am loathe to give that up.  That's my choice and I stick by it, despite the protests of my liver.

New Jack

Quote from: Steven on June 05, 2018, 03:02:09 AM
Is there anything in the original movie that overtly points to that beside from Robocop walking through some water supposedly being a Christ-symbolism "walking on the water" moment when there's loads of movies people do that which obviously aren't?

Was mooching through TV Tropes and it flings this Christness at ya:

QuoteMurphy is the 33rd cop to die at Clarence Boddicker's hands. Jesus was supposedly crucified in 33 AD. (Meaning he was 33 when he died)

The murder of Murphy plays out like the Crucifixion, complete Shotgun to the hand = being nailed to a cross, ending with a Coup De Grace (Headshot versus a spear in the side), has a lamenting woman in the immediate aftermath (Lewis versus Mary) and leads to a resurrection.

RoboCop is later seen walking in a shallow lake, giving him the appearance of walking on water.

Again referencing the Crucifixion, Boddicker rams a spear into Murphy's torso through a pre-existing hole just like the Roman Centurion in the above-mentioned Coup De Grace

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: St_Eddie on June 05, 2018, 09:39:24 AM
That's my choice and I stick by it, despite the protests of my liver.

Well, this thread is about the scientific documentary about making parts of a man into a robot.  So drink away and then get a robot liver when yours gives up the ghost. 

Part man.

Part machine.

All alcoholic.

ROBOCOHOLIC

Josef K

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but did anyone see Our RoboCop Remake?

It's a fan funded retelling of the original, with each scene made by a different team, encompassing live action, stop motion, animation etc.
The whole thing is worth a watch but even if you don't, I implore you to watch this one scene. It starts out more or less shot for shot the same as the original but then it...escalates
https://vimeo.com/86014703 (very NSFW)

It's one of the few things on my list of 'videos that make me cry with laughter every time'