Author Topic: Twin Peaks Season 3...  (Read 8868 times)

Mister Six

  • Half-masted, bass-boosted, sling-backed
Twin Peaks Season 3...
« on: June 06, 2018, 01:56:17 PM »
Good things come in threes, that's what they say, right? Erm.

Anyway, as the second thread has reached 100 pages, I thought it best to migrate the little nuggets of conversation that continue to emerge into a new thread. Also I wanted to continue the punctuation convention from the other two.

For posterity, here's the first thread and here's the second.

Can't believe it's been more than a year since The Return, er, returned. Showtime is now pushing for Emmys, in what will be, sadly, the last hurrah for the show (at least until season four - ha!).

Oddly enough they're trying to get Lynch an acting nomination, along with Michel Horse, Robert Forster, Miguel Ferrer, Naomi Watts, Kyle Maclachlan, Laura Dern and (of course) Kyle Maclachlan. You can see the For Your Consideration videos here. Lynch will be up for the directing Emmy too.

Shocked that they didn't push for Grace Zabriskie to get one though. Granted, she had less screen time than the others, but by God, what she had she really owned.

Mister Six

  • Half-masted, bass-boosted, sling-backed
Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2018, 02:35:28 PM »
Oh, and at risk of turning this into a general Lynch thread (but why not?), here's a Rolling Stone article about various takeaways from Lynch's Festival of Disruption, which was held in New York a few weeks ago.

Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2018, 09:46:44 PM »
Lynch shouldn't really be nominated for acting, he isn't a good actor at all. I'm happy that Kyle Mucklocklun is nominated twice though.

Shaky

  • I drink your thread
Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2018, 11:49:25 PM »
Lynch shouldn't really be nominated for acting, he isn't a good actor at all. I'm happy that Kyle Mucklocklun is nominated twice though.

I agree he shouldn't have been nominated for acting among the others there but it's good performance with some hidden depths. Cole was traditionally more of a comic relief part but he had some very solid, understated "serious" bits in the recent series.

Also: Lynch was great in Louie.

Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2018, 11:56:27 PM »
I agree he shouldn't have been nominated for acting among the others there but it's good performance with some hidden depths. Cole was traditionally more of a comic relief part but he had some very solid, understated "serious" bits in the recent series.

Also: Lynch was great in Louie.

I'll amend my comment a little, he has limited range.

Mark Steels Stockbroker

  • Lost in the former West
Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2018, 09:49:04 AM »
The Cooper who leaves the motel in ep18 is Bad Cooper trying to pass as Good Cooper. Look closely at his eyes.

That's why the car he leaves in is the one BC was driving when he fell sick.

Mark Steels Stockbroker

  • Lost in the former West
Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2018, 09:52:15 AM »
The crucial scene is when Good Cooper meets the eyeless woman before he leaves the Lodge to become Dougie. The phase is shifting because 2 timelines are overlapped. When she pulls the lever she resolves which one he is in. The eyeless woman is Laura between being saved by GC and leaving to become Carrie Page. The number on the exit door is significant.

Sin Agog

  • Dogs fucked the pope; no fault of mine
Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2018, 09:56:54 AM »
Lynch shouldn't really be nominated for acting, he isn't a good actor at all. I'm happy that Kyle Mucklocklun is nominated twice though.

Hmmph.  He had an occasional heartbreaking vulnerable twinkle in his eye in the last season.  You see it and you can't tell if it's the look of pre-emptive nostalgia from a chuckling puppeteer about to see his marionettes put to rest, or a fragile old man who's seen too much pain.  I'll take that performance over anything Meryl Streep's ever done.

Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2018, 10:10:05 PM »
Lynch interviewed on Deadline

Quote
Does he have any movie projects or more TV projects lined up?

“I don’t. I have a box of ideas, and I’m working with producer Sabrina Sutherland, kind of trying to go through and see if there’s any gold in those boxes.”

Has he finished forever with the world of Twin Peaks?

“Well, for right now, you could say I don’t want to talk about that,” he says flatly.

Could Agent Cooper return to solve another Blue Rose mystery?

“If I don’t want to talk about it, I can’t even answer that.”

Sounds like they're prepping something new in Lynch HQ!

Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2018, 10:29:38 PM »
Hmm, not wanting to talk about it is certainly suspicious. Cooper and Carrie being in another place gives Lynch an opportunity to explain away the absence of dead cast members and jettison any others deemed unnecessary to the story.

Maybe a film or a mini series could be produced rather than a full 18 episode season? I'd love to get more. I loved how it ended but it's tempting to get more clues on what's going on with Cooper and Carrie. The theory above about it being bad Cooper pretending to be good Cooper is an interesting one that I think is hard to find flaws in (unless you take bad Cooper being burnt to fuck in that chair at the start of 18 to be his definitive death, and I don't know that there's any clue as to how he'd get out of that - though I do constantly wonder about that shot of the Jumping Man / Sarah running down the stairs as Cooper and Mike go up them).

TwinPeaks

  • didn't choose a very distinctive username did i
Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2018, 01:20:39 AM »
Quote
Why would he want to do that—to weed out the people he didn’t want to watch the show? Again, Lynch rebuts the question. “No, no,” he insists. “Again, it’s the ideas. The ideas present a kind of flow of how it’s going to unfold, and the ideas tell you each scene and each character. And you just follow the ideas.”
I'm glad he put that to rest. Always thought it was a bit cynical to assume David Lynch was putting things in just to upset these cherry pie-loving Audrey-fan philistines that apparently shouldn't be allowed to enjoy the aspects of Twin Peaks that spoke to them the most.

Mister Six

  • Half-masted, bass-boosted, sling-backed
Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2018, 01:31:05 AM »
Lynch has an impish sense of humour but I don't think he's ever been mean-spirited towards the fans, even if he didn't give them exactly what they want.

I loved how it ended but it's tempting to get more clues on what's going on with Cooper and Carrie.

I feel the same way - but of course, Lynch will only raise more questions and conundrums (conundra?).

Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2018, 01:52:27 AM »
The theory above about it being bad Cooper pretending to be good Cooper is an interesting one that I think is hard to find flaws in (unless you take bad Cooper being burnt to fuck in that chair at the start of 18 to be his definitive death, and I don't know that there's any clue as to how he'd get out of that - though I do constantly wonder about that shot of the Jumping Man / Sarah running down the stairs as Cooper and Mike go up them).

A recent interview with Kyle Maclachlan suggested it was a confused mixture of Coop, Dougie and Mr C.
I got a sense of this when I originally saw it, particularly the diner scene.

Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2018, 03:11:07 AM »
A recent interview with Kyle Maclachlan suggested it was a confused mixture of Coop, Dougie and Mr C.
I got a sense of this when I originally saw it, particularly the diner scene.

I know, but I think the question is why that is; another two popular theories to that end are: the two sides of Cooper are merged, or it's "real" Cooper as opposed to "TV" Cooper. Bad Coop pretending to be good Coop is a good alternative to both. I'm not entirely satisfied with any I've heard, but my memory of the series is dim now. I need to get to a rewatch soon.

Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2018, 10:34:36 AM »
We grew so familiar with these different versions of Cooper, in something like a dream, that it seems wrong when they're jumbled into one character, but I believe that Odessa Cooper is the closest thing to a true Cooper after spending 25 years in the lodge and being flung around in time and space a la Philip Jeffries.
Perhaps Cooper's true objective before Odessa was to send Bad Coop back so they could merge as one, sans BOB.

Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2018, 11:01:47 AM »
It's equally fascinating and frustrating to try and tease out these tiny clues
 There seems to be a definite coherent solution lurking somewhere in there. I definitely don't want it spelt out for me, though.  It was quite disappointing at the start of Part 17 when Lynch/Cole sat down and spelt out the meaning of 'Judy' a bit too literally.  On the other hand, I don't want a load of gibberish like INLAND EMPIRE.

Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2018, 11:18:41 AM »
It's weird that you guys started talking about the new Coop as I randomly decided to watch the last episode of Twin Peaks last night. The diner scene is when you really first realise that it's not the Cooper we know, the way he barely acknowledges the waitress when she pours him coffee is immediately troubling. It's a brilliant performance by Kyle really, he seems to flitter back and forth between the Cooper personas before settling on something altogether different at the Palmer/Tremond household. "What year is it?" is such a devastating moment, especially considering Phillip Jefferies exasperation at the date when he's in Gordon Cole's office. Whew, what a way to end Twin Peaks!

Wet Blanket

  • I am the Colour Blind Dog-Thief
Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2018, 11:28:10 AM »
I loved that final, melancholy episode. It reminded me of the end of Mullholland Drive, it's as if Coop the cartoony FBI agent from the series has found himself in the drab real world and doesn't quite understand how to fit in.

I hope he isn't convinced to make a fourth series. It's such a great enigma to leave it on. For me, a fourth series would be like repeating the same magic trick; adding any sort of elaboration on those final episodes, even a similarly bizarre one, would spoil it. Plus, in practical terms, even more cast members are now dead.

From that Deadline interview it sounds like if he could get away with it he'd make another feature film, and this is also what I want from him. 

Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2018, 12:48:10 PM »
I still have a feeling that Lynch films, and Twin Peaks: The Return in particular, are like moving Rorschach tests that say as much about the viewer as the creator. I think Lynch is a lover of abstract, dreamlike imagery without necessarily any solid reasoning behind it and people like to fill in the gaps that aren't really there, or rather they are there but are shaped to fit whatever theory you think to have.

I know that doesn't do much for discussion though, and I do enjoy hearing all the theories

Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2018, 01:01:46 PM »
I still have a feeling that Lynch films, and Twin Peaks: The Return in particular, are like moving Rorschach tests that say as much about the viewer as the creator. I think Lynch is a lover of abstract, dreamlike imagery without necessarily any solid reasoning behind it and people like to fill in the gaps that aren't really there, or rather they are there but are shaped to fit whatever theory you think to have.

I know that doesn't do much for discussion though, and I do enjoy hearing all the theories

This is a valid point, particularly if you look at his short films, but he is also clearly very fond of clues and mystery stories. Most of his feature-length films are quite carefully plotted (again, INLAND EMPIRE is the exception for me but that looks exactly like what it was: made up as he went along).

Shaky

  • I drink your thread
Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2018, 01:14:11 PM »
I feel like Cooper's story-line is done. The audience is free to imagine him trying again and again to put things right like the decent soul he is/was or, if they prefer, he can remain trapped in some alternate bizarro land for eternity, not entirely certain of who or where he is. Or maybe Carrie's scream really did annihilate everything. It's the perfect open ending, and while Lynch undoubtedly has his own thoughts about what happened he has no interest in sharing those with others and the show's all the better for it.

Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2018, 03:13:38 PM »
This is a valid point, particularly if you look at his short films, but he is also clearly very fond of clues and mystery stories. Most of his feature-length films are quite carefully plotted (again, INLAND EMPIRE is the exception for me but that looks exactly like what it was: made up as he went along).

This is true but it almost seems that he is more interested in the feeling of mystery rather than the actual resolution. In life you can often never be sure that a mystery has been solved and I think his films are the same, even to the extent that they are actually unsolvable. He puts things that seem like clues into the stories to ensure they can never truly be solved. I am not sure how much of this is conscious effort and how much it is just how his brain works

Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2018, 04:39:38 PM »
This is true but it almost seems that he is more interested in the feeling of mystery rather than the actual resolution. In life you can often never be sure that a mystery has been solved and I think his films are the same, even to the extent that they are actually unsolvable. He puts things that seem like clues into the stories to ensure they can never truly be solved. I am not sure how much of this is conscious effort and how much it is just how his brain works

That does seem to fit with Lynch's methodology. In fact wasn't the plan for Twin Peaks originally going to be that they would never solve Laura's murder and the mystery would just go on forever?

Mark Steels Stockbroker

  • Lost in the former West
Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2018, 10:52:38 PM »
I still have a feeling that Lynch films, and Twin Peaks: The Return in particular, are like moving Rorschach tests that say as much about the viewer as the creator. I think Lynch is a lover of abstract, dreamlike imagery without necessarily any solid reasoning behind it and people like to fill in the gaps that aren't really there, or rather they are there but are shaped to fit whatever theory you think to have.

I agree - I wrote this about an hour ago:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/jonathan-norton/golden-ball/10156198575286013/

It's interesting to look at some of the fan forums and you see people who pretty much ignore entire details like the 2nd Diane at the motel, or skirt over with a glib explanation ("it's a projection"). I think once you've committed to a particular mythos as the key to the explanation that you only see what fits that, and you read it entirely literally in terms of the chosen theory.

Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2018, 11:19:44 PM »
That does seem to fit with Lynch's methodology. In fact wasn't the plan for Twin Peaks originally going to be that they would never solve Laura's murder and the mystery would just go on forever?

"It was the goose that lays the golden eggs"

What's extraordinary about The Return is that they somehow managed to reconstruct an even more compelling mystery from the shattered fragments of this, er, golden goose thing.
According to Lynch, although they never wanted to reveal the killer they both knew from the beginning that it was Leland what done it.
I suspect they went about about The Return in a similar fashion, with a full picture in mind, abstracting it so to be objectively indecipherable and communicating the ideas in essence.

I've finally gotten round to reading The Final Dossier and The Secret History Of Twin Peaks (in that order, oddly).
If you haven't read them yet and you plan to, ignore the following chunk.

While I didn't much care for the minutiae of Douglas Milford's extensive investigation into UFO phenomena, TSHOTP and its follow-up did add some concrete to the foundations of TP that I appreciated, almost as though to counterpoint Lynch's disruptive strangeness.
Certain details were very compelling, particularly the history of the area before it became known as Twin Peaks (Welsh/Native-American giants!!) and backstories into their inhabitants, like that Catherine, Carl were literally (or not so literally) abducted by aliens, as was Briggs later on.
Considering that Cooper, Annie and Andy (and almost Cole) have made similar brief departures which bear no resemblance to the aforementioned instances, it left me satisfyingly mystified as to how this fit together.
I'm not sure what to think of Douglas' final encounter (of a shit kind) though... If you're not familiar or you've somehow forgotten, Douglas soberly recounts his meeting with an alien, the large eyes, tiny mouth and nose sort, accompanied by Richard Nixon and Jackie Gleason (because obviously).

Even though it ventured pretty far from my idea of the show, overall I enjoyed it.
In the end, I interpreted Frost's version of Twin Peaks as the same universe, but with a shifted hue. As though all the elements of the picture interacted in the same way, but the colours were different.
I think the UFO stuff could be a projection/different visualization of the Lodge activity we know and love, but if you consider that, you might as well consider the opposite is true and then everything becomes meaningless.

In conclusion, Twin Peaks - where weird shit happens.


I'm fascinated though by the apparent rift between the way Frost presents the world in writing and the way Lynch presents the world visually.
After reading the books, although I wasn't in any doubt prior, I became doubly sure what elements of Twin Peaks were Lynch's and what were Frost's.
That said, I think they're on the same page regarding the history and rules that have been defined.
As for the all the ufology stuff, I reckon Lynch acknowledges it but he's chosen not to show it... or maybe to show it in a very different way (shifted hues, yeah?)

Anyone else read TSHOTP recently?
My first thought as I started reading it was that it must have been quite alarming to most fans anticipating the Return. I also thought it benefited significantly to read it after rather than before The Return.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 11:37:03 PM by hedgehog90 »

Small Man Big Horse

  • Member
  • **
  • Writers wanted for comedy website, pls click below
Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2018, 11:25:32 PM »
I've yet to read TSHOTP in detail though I've skimmed through the beginning and struggled with it to be honest as I found it a bit dull. I did finish The Final Dossier this week and quite enjoyed it, though it repeats a lot of what we already knew about various characters. And Annie's final fate is bleak, I wish Frost had done something different there.

Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2018, 11:41:11 PM »
I've yet to read TSHOTP in detail though I've skimmed through the beginning and struggled with it to be honest as I found it a bit dull. I did finish The Final Dossier this week and quite enjoyed it, though it repeats a lot of what we already knew about various characters. And Annie's final fate is bleak, I wish Frost had done something different there.

"I'm fine."

I delight in its creepiness/bleakness.

Small Man Big Horse

  • Member
  • **
  • Writers wanted for comedy website, pls click below
Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2018, 11:47:21 PM »
"I'm fine."

I delight in its creepiness/bleakness.

I normally do when it comes to Twin Peaks but I love Annie so much and after everything she's been through I wanted her to find some kind of happiness.

Mark Steels Stockbroker

  • Lost in the former West
Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2018, 11:52:29 PM »
So they're like Clarke and Kubrick - the book version explicitly ties it to a fairly comprehensible alien civilization and its history. The film just goes for a weird atmosphere and is open to endless interpretation.

Mark Steels Stockbroker

  • Lost in the former West
Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2018, 05:53:15 AM »
The Cooper who leaves the motel in ep18 is Bad Cooper trying to pass as Good Cooper. Look closely at his eyes.

That's why the car he leaves in is the one BC was driving when he fell sick.

Also why Diane has to cover his face during sex. And why he seems bemused by the "Richard" and "Linda" references in the note she leaves.

Maybe Good Cooper is in the car tailing them during the drive back to TP and gets there ahead of them? Or he got to Laura/Carrie ahead of Bad Cooper and had something to do with shooting the guy in her living room.