Twin Peaks Season 3...

[mjwilson]

Didn't Lynch make a snarky comment about the books not being "his" idea of the history of Peaks? Seems a bit ungracious in print, but maybe he said it with a wink and a smile

I think he just literally means that Frost wrote it on his own and that they didn't collaborate at all. I doubt Lynch has even read them.

[Mister Six]

Yeah, according to Room to Dream (I highly recommend the audiobook, by the way), after Frost turned in the final draft of the scripts, he went off to write the two most recent Peaks books solo while Lynch went off to film. Lynch wasn't involved in the books, and while Frost gave the nod to Lynch's subsequent changes to the shooting script, he wasn't involved in the final version of The Return, either.

Room to Dream does say that Frost's role is to tie down David's images and visions to a mainstream-accessible narrative, but that doesn't mean Frost himself is some kind of unimaginative dullard, and he contributed plenty to the scripting process on The Return and the Frost/Lynch collabs on seasons one and two.

[Custard]

Coop enjoying TP Day
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CLsEZygjoo2/

[colacentral]

I haven't watched those videos but it's possible that Cooper just doesn't understand what the ring is for. Maybe he just thinks he's saving Laura's life and is oblivious to the other implications.

Happy Twin Peaks day everyone!

I agree that the answer is that Cooper in FWWM is simply ignorant: he only knows that a previous victim's strange disappearance had something to do with the ring. He associates the ring with the crime scene he investigated at the start of the film.

I've been thinking about this and one explanation I have is that the Cooper saying "don't wear the ring" is Cooper post-episode 18, once he's realised that trying to save her physical body alone wasn't enough*. Once Laura puts on the ring, she sells her soul to Judy / Mrs Tremond / Chalfont, trapping her in the Black Lodge.

Since the black lodge exists outside of linear time, and Cooper doesn't, he can't just travel back in time and undo it, since it's already "been done", which is why Laura is whisked away when he tries to lead her out of the woods. Maybe Judy is taking Laura's soul away from the woods while she still possesses it, before Cooper can undo the point in which Laura wore the ring, which is more significant than the murder of her physical body.

So when Carrie Page is talking wistfully about being "home" in their car journey, and Tremond / Chalfont has replaced the Palmers in their house - it's a metaphor for Laura's soul being forever trapped in the Black Lodge with Judy (and Cooper?), unable to return home to the Fireman.

* not necessarily post-18 I suppose, as it may just be the case that Cooper believes leading Laura out of the woods is enough to undo the wearing of the ring, under estimating the power of the black lodge existing outside of linear time.

[Retinend]

Speaking of FWWM, what is the meaning of Leyland saying (as he holds Laura's diary pages in front of her):

"I always thought you knew it was me"

followed by Bob saying:

"I never knew you knew it was me"    ?



...First there's the obvious interpretation:

Bob says "you knew it was me" - i.e. Laura already knew it was Bob's intention to drive her insane by choosing to possess specifically the body of her own father to abuse her, and Bob is disappointed that Laura was too smart to be fooled by him. He has learned of the failure of his disguise because Laura writes what she knows (that her abuser is not really her father, but an evil spirit possessing him) and Bob has stolen the diary pages.

But then there is the complicating factor:

Leyland says, with a sob "I always thought you knew it was me".
What the hell does this mean?
The delivery is almost as if he wants to say "your abuser isn't me: it's Bob - and I'm happy you know it was never me, your actual father"
But in that case he should say "I always thought you knew it was him" (i.e. "I had always suspected it, but now I know, thank God")
What he actually says is "I always thought you knew it was me" - on the face of it, this is to say "it was me, I am the guilty one, your true father".


I think it would have been better screenwriting for Leyland to say "I always thought you knew it was him" - since it would underscore the dichotomy present in the framing of the shot at that moment (Leyland appearing from the extreme-right edge of frame, Bob from the "sinister" leftmost edge)- but perhaps there's some deliberate ambiguity going on here?

It's certainly not clear whether on the one hand Bob is a manifestation of Leyland's own native evil, or, on the other hand, whether a totally foreign spirit has possessed a good man from the outside. I suppose that, here, such ambiguity would reflect the true nature of evil: few people who are abused by their fathers can stop thinking of their abusers as their, on other occasions, loving fathers, and trying to separate one from the other is, unfortunately, simply not possible.

[mjwilson]

Speaking of FWWM, what is the meaning of Leyland saying (as he holds Laura's diary pages in front of her):

"I always thought you knew it was me"

followed by Bob saying:

"I never knew you knew it was me"    ?

I always took Leland's line at face value to be honest. The Bob line stood out to me when I watched it on Wednesday, I'd never really noticed it before. That seems to be trying a bit hard to be an inversion of Leland's line.

[colacentral]

I never really thought about it before but I suppose it is odd when you explain it like that.

Sorry to keep banging this same drum, but I've been thinking more about the unified field and a few more things occurred to me.

First, I think that, tied in to the idea that our separation as beings is an illusion and we are all just one thing (what I'm thinking now is represented by the purple sea surrounding the fireman's house - the literal sea of pure consciousness that Lynch talks about), is I think a rejection of individualism, ie greed / selfishness.

I think this is partly represented in the form of physical ailments, particularly in the wearers of the green ring losing feeling in their arm, and obviously The Arm himself - it's a body part acting independently of the whole.

I think that's why The Experiment / Judy and Naido have no eyes, and the latter can't talk either - it's disconnection from other people. You also have the drunk guy who only repeats back what others say to him (which is both communication breakdown and a link to the other idea of us being "one", ie he's a mirror reflecting Chad's insults back to him, similar to Dougie, whose joy and innocence rubs off on other people).

These things, particularly the lack of eyes, tie in with the phone motif you have going on - the Log Lady's line when she says "it can't all be said over the phone", ie not face to face; the evil Cooper deriving a large part of his power from phones (there are lots more examples but I don't want to attempt to list them all). The phones are a constant presence because they represent human disconnection.

And large parts of the story takes place in New York and Las Vegas, obvious settings for an anti-individualism / anti-materialism narrative. The evil Cooper is implied to be the billionaire owner of the tower with the box that summons The Experiment, so his wealth is primarily the thing that brings it into the world.

There's alot more poverty shown in the third season, and alot more images of sick and injured people. I think that makes sense of why the people living in the trailer park in FWWM all have injuries, and why the trailer park becomes a part of Twin Peaks in season 3.

The other thing I noticed is the colour green, and how that seems to represent purity. Green is nature, obviously, the colour of the trees (pure air), and it's everywhere in FWWM particularly. Laura wears two different entirely green outfits in the first half of the film, before changing to black after she passes through the painting. And green is all over the Palmer house, another thing I somehow never thought about before - green shutters on the windows; green table mats; a green sofa; and they have an absurd amount of indoor plants, including a massive tree in their living room.

So I think it's that idea again of the bugs underneath the lawn in Blue Velvet, or the green formica table - Leland / Bob is the bug in the garden.

I think the green ring is this too - the green ring represents a false escape from a problem. Laura wears the ring out of desperation because she's looking for any method of escaping the immediate problem in front of her. She's been warned not to wear the ring, but in that moment she's willing to try anything. You could say then that it's like the act of doing drugs - she takes cocaine to escape her immediate problems, but it leads to worse ones.

I think the green ring is colour coded the same way as the cocaine - green in TP is coded as purity, much like white often is. The scene of Laura cutting up lines of coke in her bedroom cuts back and forth with the scene of Leland giving Sarah the drugged glass of milk, and the way that it's performed, it's obvious that Sarah knows what's going on. Both Sarah and Laura are taking drugs to blot out reality. So I think it's the same idea - the surface colour hiding reality ("the white of the eye and dark within"?).

Thinking about this, it occurred to me that there's a scene in FWWM that I think could be a self-deprecating inside joke about Lynch preaching this (ie taking drugs to alter the mind as opposed to the "pure" mind alteration of meditation), with Irene standing in for Lynch here, considering that Lynch is a coffee addict and chain smoker:

DESMOND
         Do you take cocaine, Irene?

               IRENE
         No, I do not.  I never took cocaine or any
         other drugs.  I don't take drugs.

              STANLEY
         Nicotine is a drug.  Caffeine is a drug.

               IRENE
         Who's Shorty?  Those drugs are legal.

And as I'm writing this post I just remembered a scene that illustrates all of the above, a scene that I previously never gave much thought to: at one point, Jerry Horne gets off his nut on hallucinogens; gets lost in the woods; loses phone signal trying to get help from Ben (who never leaves his office throughout season 3 and is constantly on his phone); and finally, Jerry's foot starts talking to him, to tell him that it's not his foot.

[Custard]

Was surprised at how slight The Final Dossier was when it arrived, but that allowed me to read the entire thing last night in one sitting, which I very much did!

Really enjoyed it. Nice reading about the life histories of the main characters, and what happened to them between S2 and The Return. What happened to Annie was depressing reading, mind. Also for some reason I'd completely forgotten that she was related to Norma

The entry for Jerry Horne made me laugh a lot. Experimenting with sound with Neil Young, etc

Frost also pretty much confirms a lot of theories in regards to The Return, which although he sticks a question mark on each entry I was still surprised that he was being so transparent/forthright about it

"It's very slippery in here..."

[Dirty Boy]

Any explanation as to why that no. 6 telegraph pole seems to move around between the Fat Trout Trailer Park, the crosswalk, outside Carrie's house in Odessa and... somehere else?

[Poison To The Mind]

at one point, Jerry Horne gets off his nut on hallucinogens

iirc it's just edibles? weed had been legal in Washington for years by the time The Return was shot btw

[colacentral]

iirc it's just edibles? weed had been legal in Washington for years by the time The Return was shot btw

The legality is beside the point, it's that Jerry Horne (and a load of other characters) are seeking "something else" through artificial means rather than through what Lynch perceives as pure means, ie meditation.

Think about Jacoby flogging painted gold shovels to desperate people (fake gold, not like the fireman's real gold).

Laura wears the green ring (artificial escape), and ends up wrapped in plastic, again like a commodity.

It's the vicious cycle of a hyper capitalist culture like the US creating conditions for extreme stress, which sell products that offer escape from that stress, but exacerbates the system that creates it in the first place. This culture (individualism) is seen by the show as being at odds with the philosophy of Lynch (and Frost's) spiritual beliefs (collectivism).

[Poison To The Mind]

I meant it's just weed that he's eaten, not "hallucinogens" - sorry if that wasn't clear.

(who among us has not had mildly pleasant confused perceptions on a gummy, or distressing dreams on dabs, etc, but ygwim)

vicious cycle of a hyper capitalist culture like the US creating conditions for extreme stress, which sell products that offer escape from that stress, but exacerbates the system that creates it in the first place. This culture (individualism) is seen by the show as being at odds with the philosophy of Lynch (and Frost's) spiritual beliefs (collectivism).

when viewing, I took Jerry's freakout in the woods to merely be an extension of his personally-focussed hedonism cum entrepreneurism in the original series. back then he liked the freedom of being in charge of things, without any actual responsibility. he would fly & drive two entire cheesesandwiches for several days from France, just to share their deliciousness with the brother to whose authority he would otherwise happily defer.

running a weed farm was a similarly apt combo of sensory pleasure and locally-concentrated business interest for the 2016 version of Jerry Horne. his getting so fucked up that he got lost in the woods for a few days I initially took as comic relief on a character level, though contributing to a sinister aura overall (as with much in classic Peaks). but I enjoyed this amplified take of yours!

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

I never knew this but the owl cave symbol is extremely similar to an inverted odal rune (well almost exactly), which has been in the news as a stage for the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) was shaped as such and is now facing heavy criticism.



I of course learning it after having the owl cave symbol on my fucking LEG

[Retinend]

I of course learning it after having the owl cave symbol on my fucking LEG

I'm not superstitious but... don't get a nightwatch job, whatever you do.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

I'm not superstitious but... don't get a nightwatch job, whatever you do.

neht dekcuf m'i llew

[Mister Six]

I never knew this but the owl cave symbol is extremely similar to an inverted odal rune (well almost exactly), which has been in the news as a stage for the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) was shaped as such and is now facing heavy criticism.

Fuck!

I of course learning it after having the owl cave symbol on my fucking LEG

FUCK!

Get around it by blacking up your whole body in the style of the Woodsmen. Can't foresee any problems there.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

Get around it by blacking up your whole body in the style of the Woodsmen. Can't foresee any problems there.

edit: photo of a pal basically blacked up for a peaks party i went to. don't want to share an irl friend photo in retrospect but you can imagine what it looked like

[Mister Six]

I spent ages that Halloween trying to think of a way to play a Woodsman without getting decked, and gave up on the idea.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

I spent ages that Halloween trying to think of a way to play a Woodsman without getting decked, and gave up on the idea.

i actually did go as a woodsperson (lol)

my interpretation was a bit of soot and an attempt at some german expressionist caligari makeup, less actual blacking up

[PlanktonSideburns]

i actually did go as a woodsperson (lol)

my interpretation was a bit of soot and an attempt at some german expressionist caligari makeup, less actual blacking up

no its a twin peaks thing,, not a racist thing, - look i can prove it

[rolls up trouser leg to reveal tattoo]

[H-O-W-L]

Go as a FWWM Woodsman. Ploblem solve.

[Mr Trumpet]

Speaking of FWWM, what is the meaning of Leyland saying (as he holds Laura's diary pages in front of her):

"I always thought you knew it was me"

followed by Bob saying:

"I never knew you knew it was me"    ?

I think one aim of the film was to reverse what the show had done in terms of letting Leland off the hook for his crimes. The show strongly suggests Leland was possessed and didn't know what was happening. That was a pretty bad writing decision as Lynch seems to realise. Now it seems that Leland isn't fully cognisant of Bob's presence, and neither of them are aware that Laura can perceive the latter. Leland sounds so pained in this scene because, well, he feels guilty about the horrible shit he's doing, but he does it anyway.

[Retinend]

Yeah, I think the film shows a more ambiguous side to Leyland's "possession" than the TV show did - that he allowed Bob in, rather than being merely overtaken by Bob.

Still, in that case, Leyland's line would make more sense but it's Bob's line that would become the more puzzling.

[Mr Trumpet]

Well Bob is also culpable, but imagines he's hidden from mortal perceptions. Laura's a special case though, a fact they lay on a bit more thickly in S3.

[Retinend]

I suppose the lines make the most sense if Laura had named both in her diary: "my abusers were Bob and my father, both"

Has anyone read "The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" to be able to confirm that she is conscious of an evil duality there?

[Mr Trumpet]

Don't know how much stock to put in that - I think I saw that Lynch Sr hadn't read the book. He doesn't strike me as much of a reader tbh. It's one of those mad things like how he hates windows because he gets bored looking at nature.

[NoSleep]

I seem to recall that the diary isn't canon because it contradicts FWWM and the further unfolding of the story. Who'd have thought?

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

I seem to recall that the diary isn't canon because it contradicts FWWM and the further unfolding of the story. Who'd have thought?

Is twin peaks even a series concerned with what is or isn't canon? FWWM could be practically set in another universe for how tonally different it is to the show.

[NoSleep]

Who'd have thought?

[mjwilson]

I seem to recall that the diary isn't canon because it contradicts FWWM and the further unfolding of the story. Who'd have thought?

The diary is generally considered OK, if there are some contradictions they're minor (from what I remember anyway). It's the Cooper book which goes wildly off-piste because it has Cooper setting off to investigate the Theresa Banks murder, before Chris Isaak/Kiefer Sutherland took that job.