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Terminator (2019)

Started by St_Eddie, June 08, 2018, 02:30:19 AM

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colacentral

At this point if I lived in that universe I'd be more concerned about all the time travelling going on than the killer robots.

Have one where they enter the date wrong and go to the Renaissance or something.

biggytitbo

They already did one where the terminator was sent to Edwardian times http://www.funkytv.com/video/view/337

Avril Lavigne

Quote from: Replies From View on June 24, 2018, 10:04:41 AM
I assumed that's what he meant, but is it an established American Thing to say that or is he going senile?  I MUST KNOW.

Nah it sounds wrong to me too, maybe Cameron is just doing his own sequel to Ridley Scott's senility.

olliebean

Quote from: Replies From View on June 23, 2018, 09:10:35 PM
Is "18-something" an American thing or is Cameron going senile?

Probably means the character is 18 but they're going to do the usual thing of casting someone who's quite obviously in her mid-20s.

mothman

It probably means "any actress within the age range likely to be attractive to 18-year-old boys," the only demographic that Hollywood has any interest in targeting.

mothman

For some reason I've found myswelf recently thinking about Terminator timelines. I thought I'd set them out here as there are a couple of things I'm not sure about.

Timeline 1

- Basically, T1 and T2 together. According to the T2 novelisation, the T2 T-800 was sent back straight after Kyle Reese.
- But there are several sub-timelines...

Timeline 1A

- This is the happy-ever-after post-T2 timeline. Never actually depicted onscreen, though I think there was a T2 epilogue written (and maybe filmed) with an aging, reflective Sarah Connor looking back on things. JC is a Senator in the future, and JD never happened.

Timeline 1B

- The T3 timeline. Judgement Day still happens, just later than expected and via the magic of computer viruses and distributed computing.

Timeline 1C

- The TSCC timeline. Which itself has at least two branches, given the version of Derek Reese's future girlfriend comes back in time from an altered future he himself doesn't recall. The future that JC and the Shirley Manson T-1000 go forward to may also be yet another branch, we never got to find out.

Timeline 1D

- The new film's, T6's, timeline.
- The thing that always bugged me about T2 is, the T-1000 seems totally unconcerned about the attempts by JC & SC to stop JD happening. What does it know that we don't? Did it do something to ensure Skynet would still happen? It'd be nice if the new film addressed this, but I'm not holding my breath.

Initially I struggled to figure out where T4 and T5 fit in. But as far as I can recall neither references anything from T2, so...

Timeline 2

- The T4 aka Salvation timeline. This is essentially the future that would have unfolded had there never been any Terminator sequels! JC is born, goes into hiding, thetre is NO attempt by anyone to prevent JD, which happens, JC starts his rise towards being the eventual saviour of mankind. T4 is set in 2018, when his star is still on the ascendant, with the eventual victory still in the future (2029 wasn't it? I always get it mixed up with then Blade Runner is set, but thanks to that one's sequel I know it's 2019).

Timeline 3

- The T5 aka Genisys timeline. Which is such a mess I don't even know where to start! KR is sent back, but then things go wrong rapidly; so, the T2 T-800 is never sent back - or rather he is, but to save young SC instead, and by whom and what sort of future was never revealed, and never will be now the proposed sequels have been scrapped.

St_Eddie


Quote from: mothman on August 03, 2018, 05:22:42 PM
Timeline 1A

- This is the happy-ever-after post-T2 timeline. Never actually depicted onscreen, though I think there was a T2 epilogue written (and maybe filmed) with an aging, reflective Sarah Connor looking back on things. JC is a Senator in the future, and JD never happened.

The alternate ending in question.  Complete with dodgy old person makeup and bizarre Michael Jackson reference.

monolith

Quote from: mothman on August 03, 2018, 05:22:42 PM


The thing that always bugged me about T2 is, the T-1000 seems totally unconcerned about the attempts by JC & SC to stop JD happening. What does it know that we don't? Did it do something to ensure Skynet would still happen? It'd be nice if the new film addressed this, but I'm not holding my breath.
For me the antagonists in the first two films are so scary because of the absolute single mindedness of their mission: To kill Sarah Connor/John Connor. I think adding a concern about stopping Judgement Day would have taken something away from them.

biggytitbo

Quote from: St_Eddie on August 03, 2018, 05:51:26 PM

The alternate ending in question.  Complete with dodgy old person makeup and bizarre Michael Jackson reference.


Is the one in the middle a morphing Terminator that has gone wrong?

mothman

Quote from: St_Eddie on August 03, 2018, 05:51:26 PM
The alternate ending in question.  Complete with dodgy old person makeup and bizarre Michael Jackson reference.

So they did film it! I wasn't sure. Laughable future fashions there; in fact somebody in the background had MC Hammer trousers on...

Quote from: monolith on August 03, 2018, 05:54:32 PM
For me the antagonists in the first two films are so scary because of the absolute single mindedness of their mission: To kill Sarah Connor/John Connor. I think adding a concern about stopping Judgement Day would have taken something away from them.

Oh, definitely. I just wonder if he (it?) did something, like for instance when checking the Dysons' house and it was obvious they'd been there, but had all left, and destroyed all the records there before they did. That seemed an odd scene to include, sure it shows how he's still doggedly on their tail, but then he also somehow catches up really quickly later on.

Replies From View

Quote from: St_Eddie on August 03, 2018, 05:51:26 PM

Very poor photoshop effort.  The two on the left look like they're walking into shot; Sarah Connor is just standing.


Quote from: St_Eddie on August 03, 2018, 05:51:26 PM
Complete with dodgy old person makeup

Ha, yes!  Smacks somewhat of the Back to the Future Part 2 "HELLO WE ARE OLD PEOPLE 'eeeeeeeeuuuurgh' this is how old people sound and they are hunched over".

St_Eddie

Quote from: Replies From View on August 03, 2018, 07:12:23 PM
Ha, yes!  Smacks somewhat of the Back to the Future Part 2 "HELLO WE ARE OLD PEOPLE 'eeeeeeeeuuuurgh' this is how old people sound and they are hunched over".

See also; Guy Pearce in Prometheus.  Possibly the worst old person makeup that I've ever seen in a big budget film and he also does the whole "eeeeeeeeuuuurgh" thing, to an eye-rollingly ludicrous degree.  Why is it that filmmakers and actors have seemingly learnt absolutely nothing from the subtle makeup and performance of Max von Sydow in The Exorcist?

Johnny Textface

There is simply not enough depth in these characters or world to create more films. The Terminator was a tight genre flick. Ok T2 just about got away with it, but there's just not enough there for more. So stop it.  Fuck Hollywood.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Johnny Textface on August 03, 2018, 08:07:44 PM
There is simply not enough depth in these characters or world to create more films. The Terminator was a tight genre flick. Ok T2 just about got away with it, but there's just not enough there for more. So stop it.  Fuck Hollywood.

Verily this person knows what's up.

a duncandisorderly

Quote from: Johnny Textface on August 03, 2018, 08:07:44 PM
There is simply not enough depth in these characters or world to create more films. The Terminator was a tight genre flick. Ok T2 just about got away with it, but there's just not enough there for more. So stop it.  Fuck Hollywood.

+1

Avril Lavigne

Quote from: mothman on August 03, 2018, 06:36:30 PM
So they did film it! I wasn't sure. Laughable future fashions there; in fact somebody in the background had MC Hammer trousers on...

Fascinating clip but the visual take on a pleasant future North America made me want to watch Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey and imagine it's Terminator 3, with De Nomolos' Evil Bill & Ted robots being the next in line to the T-1000 for reasons I haven't yet thought through.

Replies From View

The various deleted scenes for Terminator 2 almost make its tightness and success feel like a fluke.  Even the generally lauded mirror scene has incredibly clunky, on-the-nose dialogue when John and Sarah are discussing whether to destroy the chip.  It could very easily have ended up a much stupider film.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Replies From View on August 03, 2018, 10:23:35 PM
The various deleted scenes for Terminator 2 almost make its tightness and success feel like a fluke.  Even the generally lauded mirror scene has incredibly clunky, on-the-nose dialogue when John and Sarah are discussing whether to destroy the chip.  It could very easily have ended up a much stupider film.

Ehh.  Count me in as one of those whom likes the mirror scene (though admittedly, some of that is down to technical appreciation).  Yes, the dialogue is somewhat clunky and on-the-nose but, hey, it's James Cameron dialogue, so it's par for the course.

monolith

Quote from: Replies From View on August 03, 2018, 10:23:35 PM
The various deleted scenes for Terminator 2 almost make its tightness and success feel like a fluke.  Even the generally lauded mirror scene has incredibly clunky, on-the-nose dialogue when John and Sarah are discussing whether to destroy the chip.  It could very easily have ended up a much stupider film.
For years the only copy you could get on DVD was the one where they have all the extra scenes in and they are impossible to remove from a normal play through of the film. Put me right off the film for years as they add nothing and completely disrupt the flow of the film.

Saw the proper version recently without all the added shit and had forgotten how much I like it as I'd had the extended abomination in my head for years as it was the only version I had. It's amazing how just ten to fifteen minutes of extra footage can totally fuck up the feel and pacing of a film and make it so much less.

Replies From View

In fact the DVD of Terminator 2 I have is the Special Edition with all the added shit; I was unaware they'd released a DVD with both versions presented as options, but I did check every now and then.  Has this happened, or is it exclusively on BluRay or region 1 DVD?

monolith

Quote from: Replies From View on August 04, 2018, 09:30:44 AM
In fact the DVD of Terminator 2 I have is the Special Edition with all the added shit; I was unaware they'd released a DVD with both versions presented as options, but I did check every now and then.  Has this happened, or is it exclusively on BluRay or region 1 DVD?
The version I watched was an HD rented Amazon Prime version. I was completely expecting the shitty extended version and it was a lovely surprise to remember how perfect it is without all the other shit.

BJBMK2

The Region 2 Blu Ray has the option to toggle between the orginal theratrical version, and the crappy longer version.

Replies From View

They should give me a free Blu-Ray drive if they're going to insist on not putting out such things on DVD.

Mister Six

Quote from: Replies From View on August 03, 2018, 10:23:35 PM
The various deleted scenes for Terminator 2 almost make its tightness and success feel like a fluke. 

Er, not really - that's how editing works. You film a lot of extraneous stuff just in case the film would (somehow) work better with a spot of exposition or a comedy bit or whatever else, then you see what works in the editing room. When you know what your final film is going to look like, you do reshoots to cover the gaps and push it out the door.

It's no more a fluke than any good painting in the Tate is a fluke - things are adjusted and "painted over" all along the creative process. It's just a sign that Cameron is (or was) such a brilliant director that it seems so natural.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Mister Six on August 04, 2018, 11:22:34 PM
Er, not really - that's how editing works. You film a lot of extraneous stuff just in case the film would (somehow) work better with a spot of exposition or a comedy bit or whatever else, then you see what works in the editing room. When you know what your final film is going to look like, you do reshoots to cover the gaps and push it out the door.

It's no more a fluke than any good painting in the Tate is a fluke - things are adjusted and "painted over" all along the creative process. It's just a sign that Cameron is (or was) such a brilliant director that it seems so natural.

Correct.

Artemis

Quote from: Johnny Textface on August 03, 2018, 08:07:44 PM
There is simply not enough depth in these characters or world to create more films.

The Terminator franchise has never existed because of the characters, though. It's the premise that keeps it afloat; the basic 'machine vs human'and dystopian 'machines take over' scenario. The characters are almost superfluous. Their only job is not to get in the way, and ideally add to the storyline.

Johnny Textface

Well the premise has been done no?  Are you really saying the character of The Terminator is superfluous?

a duncandisorderly

Quote from: Johnny Textface on August 05, 2018, 02:43:03 AM
Well the premise has been done no?

that's the thing about time-travel movies, though. you can just keep making them over & over again & either incorporate or erase the events & characters of the previous flicks. if you dwell on it for too long, skynet comes out of it looking pretty stupid.

Alberon

So is this the first of a trilogy then?

Replies From View

Quote from: a duncandisorderly on August 05, 2018, 03:06:27 AM
that's the thing about time-travel movies, though. you can just keep making them over & over again

Phew!!