Topic: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

[Fishfinger]

So the FromSoftware game that was teased last December has been revealed at E3 to be entitled Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice.

Here's the current official trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGPknmiLxGo

It seems to be a dark action RPG set in fantasy Japan and is due "early" 2019 on Xbox, PS4 and Steam.

It's distributed by Activision, who've provided a press release with a little more info: https://investor.activision.com/news-releases/news-release-details/activision-and-fromsoftware-announce-sekiro-shadows-die-twice.

Any thoughts?

[Fishfinger]

Refraining from comment until there's more info available. I'm a relative newcomer, having played 100s of hours of DS3 and BB but little else, but I'm essentially glad it seems to be a new thing rather than a direct sequel.

[brat-sampson]

Miyazaki at the helm. People saying it looks 'too much' like Nioh or Ghost of Tsushima, but his involvement alone means it'll spank both of them combat-wise and basically every other which-way. Looks great, and yeah, I'm also happy they can make something in a different vein to their last *5* games.

[bgmnts]

Activision can fuck off and die.

[Obel]

For the briefest moment I was sad that it wasn't a sequel to Bloodborne, but then I remembered Bloodborne is a perfect game and doesn't need a sequel.

I'm delighted, hopefully I'll have a half decent game setup by time it's out.

[Fishfinger]

Review embargos (for the hotel demo I guess) have just ended apparently so there should be a slew of new articles appearing. This one, for example, which explicitly confirms that this'll be a single-player game only (picked for not having a shitty auto-loading video):

https://twinfinite.net/2018/06/sekiro-shadows-die-twice-dark-souls-japan-e3-preview/

One interesting thing not present, however, is multiplayer. For Sekiro, they’ve decided to go with a singular, defined character who comes with his own backstory and place in the world. At the moment the main character is only known as the “One-Armed Wolf,” and is a disgraced warrior that has to fight to defend his young master in Feudal Japan. Kitao explained more saying, “In this title, they made the decision to go with a single character, and in addition, they’ve decided to focus specifically on the single player experience of this game, so they’re not planning on multiplayer.”

[Swoz_MK]

I heard that multiplayer is in, just a little different to normal.
You invade as one of the story's NPCs, at random, ranging from boss to run of the mill disposable baddie but with an extended moveset.
This is what was originally planned for Bloodborne too.

[brat-sampson]

Easy Allies impressions and information.

Levels following similar design theory to DS1, interlocking etc. Parrying basically required. Other tools e.g. firecrackers, shurikens etc, all needed in different situations. Kicks to stagger. Estus is effectively in it. They weren't willing to discuss elements akin to souls being dropped or general punishment on death/costs of resurrection. Very focused on Japanese legend, old Japan, all that mythos. Story primarily about the characters.

[Fishfinger]

I heard that multiplayer is in, just a little different to normal.
You invade as one of the story's NPCs, at random, ranging from boss to run of the mill disposable baddie but with an extended moveset.
This is what was originally planned for Bloodborne too.

That was mooted in a supposed leak, but all the official sources so far seem to indicate that there is actually no multiplayer. E.g. from an interview with FromSoftware's Tasohiro Kitao:

Unlike Dark Souls and Bloodborne, director Hidetaka Miyazaki has opted to focus on a single-player experience in “Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice.” That means no character customization and, more importantly, no multiplayer. You’ll still be up against massive bosses, but you’ll have to suffer them on your own.

“When you design a single-player game and a multiplayer game, it’s very different,” Kitao explains. “The concept this time around, we wanted to focus on a single-player experience and not have any of those limitations when you’re designing a game that is meant as multiplayer. That was the focus and the decision.”

[Fishfinger]

Here's a nice translation of a new interview with Miyazaki, which provides some confirmation of things mentioned and is perhaps reassuring:

We don't often hear of From working with that level of collaboration [with Activision].

Miyazaki: That's right. But let me say this clearly: all decisions about game development are made by us. Activision respects the game that we are making, and that we desire to make, and offers play impressions as well as advice about what we could do to improve the game. As always, we ask that all decisions after the title screen be left to us, and we've been successful in collaborating under this framework.

Incidentally, I've heard there's no online play in this title...

Miyazaki: That's right. There are many reasons for the decision. We wanted to remove the restrictions surrounding multiplayer and focus entirely on the single-player experience in this work. Something like that. Then there's also the fixed main character, which is most appropriate to this work and gives it a unique play feel.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I never bothered with the online stuff on Bloodborne anyway. I'd summon NPCs to help out with some of the more pisstaking bosses, but otherwise it just seems like a pointless gimmick.

[Fishfinger]

I never bothered with the online stuff on Bloodborne anyway. I'd summon NPCs to help out with some of the more pisstaking bosses, but otherwise it just seems like a pointless gimmick.

Yeah, I generally used an NPC if I felt I had to, but it was also a hoot playing co-op with a friend, so I'll miss that experience. PC invasions could be a pain in the arse though, to have a chance of winning I found I had to burn consumables I could ill afford, so soon stopped bothering and let them kill me.

There was some fun and utility to be had with the messaging system, too.

[The Boston Crab]

I never bothered with the online stuff on Bloodborne anyway. I'd summon NPCs to help out with some of the more pisstaking bosses, but otherwise it just seems like a pointless gimmick.

Your entire existence up till now now has been a pointless gimmick.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

You say that like it's news.

[The Boston Crab]

Bravo. I laughed.

[Fishfinger]

Some new gameplay videos via Soulsborne lore spod Vaati, who seems to love it:

• 21 minutes of the early game - no commentary, just game sound and level music:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2tZyh4pwM0

• demo highlights, with commentary:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrd8R86CwPk

And gameplay from the same demo via Kotaku:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W30mQpEe07o

The above videos confirm that there are bonfire-like checkpoints - idols at which you pray. The resurrection mechanic seems to be: you can revive once, and damage you inflict on enemies after revival eventually replenishes the ability, rewarding aggression. This is perhaps similar to Bloodborne's rally mechanic. However, if you die again before you regain the ability, you have to start over from the last checkpoint.

The gameplay shown features prominent tooltips and explanations too, in the manner of a traditional tutorial.

All subject to change though, with 7 months to go before release in March 2019.

[Bhazor]

Its a shame From is becoming a Souls factory. I used to love From because of their variety going from Kings Field (RPG) to Otogi (action) to Armored Core (mech sim) to Enchanted Arms (JRPG) to Tenchu (stealth action). Otogi 2 was one of my favourite games on the original Xbox.

There is at least a hint of some stealth in the gameplay I've seen but its very obviously Souls Bourne with a twist. They're in danger of going the Platinum route and specializing themselves into stagnation.

[Fishfinger]

I think Miyazaki agrees. Their PSVR game about fairies, Déraciné, is coming out sometime this year, and he had this to say in a recent interview:

"I’ve observed some surprise in the reactions so far from people who were not aware that FromSoftware does other things besides Souls. This serves as a reminder to me that we have an established reputation – and that we should work on different games, so we can be more flexible and build a broader profile. That’s how I see our future.

"We’ll obviously continue to make the larger scale productions that we’ve become known for. That is our reputation. But at the same time we want to put out one-off, quirky, flavourful games. We are not always given the opportunity and the timing may not always be right, but I think that is who we would like to be."

IIRC they've also been working on a third unreleased title which is yet to be announced.

[Bhazor]

Yeah I thought From and Miyazaki would be getting a bit antsy with it. I do wonder how much is them being pushed into making Souls games by Namco-Bandai. I know Miyazaki has talked about wanting to take a break from the series previously.

[Moribunderast]

So this comes out in less than a week. Anyone else very excited? The gameplay footage I've seen looks wonderful and it sounds as if it plays more like Bloodborne, rewarding attack rather than defence and apparently relying quite heavily on parrying (that's me fucked, then).

No idea if it's going to play out in linear levels or have the more open, interweaving world of a Souls game. I'm hoping for the latter, just because this will be my first experience playing one of these games when they're brand new and I do want to get a sense of that feeling players of the Souls games must have had when there weren't big walkthroughs and wikis for everything if you were confused by how obtuse shit can be.

So this'll be a first-day buy for me and I've already fucked off any plans I may have had for next weekend. I am, dare I say, hyped. Anyone else?

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

So this comes out in less than a week. Anyone else very excited? The gameplay footage I've seen looks wonderful and it sounds as if it plays more like Bloodborne, rewarding attack rather than defence and apparently relying quite heavily on parrying (that's me fucked, then).

Cue the Dark Souls fans getting all self righteous about it being dumbed down. The wails of, "There's no builds" will echo through an uncaring void.

Makes no odds to me anyway. I shan't be getting it until it's reduced in price.

[The Boston Crab]

The lack of replayability is one reason I wasn't especially excited for this but the preview vids have opened my eyes and given how shit every other big single player game has been since Bloodborne, this can't come soon enough for me.

God of War
Horizon Zero Dawn
Spiderman
All the Tomb Raider games
Everything basically
ALL SHITE

[Thursday]

Obviously looking forward to this, but also just have this slight trepidation towards it, don't know why exactly. Maybe it was Dark Souls 3 DLC's annoying repetition of "Give every boss 3 phases and 10 billion hit points" that just got irritating to me. Obviously this is a different game, but it still seems like it'll have the same core gameplay loop, and I'm worried I'm a bit bored of it.

I've not watched the latest previews though as I thought I'd try to go in knowing as little as possible, and I've still got it pre-ordered so we shall see.

[brat-sampson]

Day 1 purchase unless reviews are shite, which I mean... I'd be very surprised. Recent previews have been glowing and the lack of build variety means levels and enemies can be designed around the player having a very specific set of skills skillset. Apparently that translates to it being fucking hard, as expected, but yes. I'll be smashing my face into it next weekend with wild abandon. Only question is PC vs PS4. Not got a Pro so PS4 will probably look better, but PC port could be dodgy.

[The Boston Crab]

It's not a PC port, though. It's from the ground up the best version. Depends how good your PC is, basically.

I'm with Thursday as finding DS3 pretty crap fan fiction with nothing new on the table and the DLC, while having some fantastic moments and set pieces, was the worst ever Souls content, probably. This looked pretty generic, too, the most obvious idea going besides sci-fi Souls, but recent previews brought a lot of confidence and goodwill back for me. The traversal and the arm attachments and some of the deeper mechanics sound very very exciting.

[Moribunderast]

I'm yet to play DS3. My first experience of the Soulsborne genre was Bloodborne last year, then the Dark Souls remaster. Played Dark Souls 2 for the first time last month to get in the headspace for Sekiro. Replayability isn't an issue for me as there's too much media around that I want to try for me to even so much as rewatch a film or TV show, let alone replay a 40-hour game. My main concern with Sekiro is that I can be shit at these games so the lack of multiplayer may see me hit a difficulty spike that renders the game unfinishable, which would be unfortunate. Definitely wouldn't have finished any of the Souls games or Bloodborne without the ability to summon. Very keen, though. I rarely buy games first-day but, as I say, I want the experience of playing a From game without the crutch of wikis and walkthroughs to lean on if shit gets confusing or hard.

Pleased to see in one of the previews I watched that they reckon the parrying system is way better than in Dark Souls. I always had a bitch of a time with that, to the point that I don't think I parried once in my playthrough of Dark Souls 2. Apparently it's quite important in Sekiro, though, so makes sense they'd make sure the mechanic plays tightly.

Gonna be weird as fuck playing a From soft game with verticality. That alone is going to offer up tons of new avenues to fun and frustration!

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Gonna be weird as fuck playing a From soft game with verticality.

Shirley it's no more weird than Mario and Zelda playing differently?

Speaking of which, here's a hot take: "Soulsborne" is not a proper genre. They're just grimdark Zelda clones.

[The Boston Crab]

It's not really a hot take, it's something Miyazaki has also said.

[Thursday]

*ignore

[Moribunderast]

Shirley it's no more weird than Mario and Zelda playing differently?

Here's the part where I offer myself up as a cretin who needs tomatoes thrown at him by the villagers: I've never played a Zelda game, nor a 3D Mario game aside from maybe a bit of Mario 64 back in the day. Love the 2D Mario games but find the newer ones look too stressful for me. Too big, too much exploration - not what I want from Mario.

2 MOAR SLEEPS FOR SEKIRO. Unless reviews all pile shit on it while I'm on my way to the store after work.