Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

[Moribunderast]

Game's losing me at this last boss fight. It's good that it's hard but it's bloody long too - meaning the further I get, the more I feel my time's being wasted. It's 15 minutes per attempt just about and one or two tiny mistakes after all that time can see you fucked. Really want to finish this thing but I can easily see myself getting jack of it and giving up. Definitely needs lower difficulty setting - for my disability of being shit.

EDIT: Seriously, though (battle spoilers) - I can get through the first two phases without taking a hit but then I get annihilated immediately in the third phase before even having a chance to learn the attack patterns. Then it's spend another 5-10 minutes getting back to that stage for the same return. The hits are just so powerful that I'm getting nowhere in learning this phase's attacks and how to deflect or avoid them. It's fucking annoying and boring.

[Moribunderast]

Angry. Spoiler:

33 hits. In one phase. And his health bar (for that bar alone) was only 3qtrs down. After already doing two phases. Obviously this is designed towards learning the perfect parries (which I can do in phase 1) but that's fucking ludicrous. Get through two phases unscathed and hit the cunt successfully 33 TIMES and still not be into the next phase. Waste of time, mate.

[Timothy]

That boss was the worst. Still dont get how I beat it. Seemed he was a bit buggy at a later phase or so when I watch YT about that boss now. Thinm he was bugged out in my game because I didnt really have to parry in later phases. I could just run and hit and sprint again.

[The Boston Crab]

I'm not at the final boss but guessing I'm about two thirds to three quarters through now. I've hardly fought any terrifying enemies but the purple drank has helped when I have done, as did the purple brolly. Some tricky customers along the way, but nothing like the roadblocks I've had earlier in the game. Orin and CM went down pretty easy once I'd been patient enough to get past GA2-2 and the lad who replaced him in the burrow. Few more ninjas and that which would have wrecked me earlier but I'm either levelled the fuck up or just got OK skills now.

[The Boston Crab]

Aye, done a few more bits, just done GSO after I told him to suck a fatty and he kicked my arse for a good couple of hours. At this point, I'd say that the structural balance of the game is pretty off towards the end. It's basically a boss rush which is a shame because the exploration is normally the reward for taking down a boss in the FROM games. Consecutive bosses are a bit lame. My reward for GSO is CM2, from what I can tell. Another long-winded boss fight. Hmm. The first two thirds to three quarters have been tremendous but this last 20% seems a bit of a slog.

[Thursday]

I did things in a slightly different order to what most people will do I think, because I did O'ROTW and CM1 before GA.

There's a way to make much shorter work of CM2, which is arguably a bit of an exploit, but then it seems like it's very deliberate that you can do it, and considering it's already a bit of a repeat, I feel no guilt.

[Moribunderast]

Sigh. You've bested me, Sekiro. I just don't have the skill-level to parry the final boss successfully and the method that I can beat him with just takes too long. Got to the final phase and it was gonna be another 10-odd minutes of not being able to make a mistake while whittling away health in a piddling manner. Best I just quit now as opposed to continuing and resenting the game. It's stopped being fun or challenging in a rewarding way for me and is just an annoyance. Not necessarily the game's fault - I just reached my skill-level and the alternative technique requires about 20-30 minutes of baiting certain attacks, poking where possible and watching where 30 hits of mine don't take off a health bar while 2 hits of his kill me. Doesn't help that I keep getting caught on rocks or falling off a cliff at inopportune times, either.

Really wanted to finish this. Bugger.

Still, played 48 hours - 40 of which were very rewarding and fun so it's not been a waste of time or money. Just sadly don't get the satisfaction of beating the thing, as I feared may be the case when I purchased it.

Best of luck to those yet to come up against this fucker! I bet you'll have more skill and patience than I and get through it.

[The Boston Crab]

I can't say I'm looking forward to the final boss from all the descriptions I've read.

Cheers, Thurs. It seems I can cheese CM2 quite easily so I'll just do that. Either that or I'll just play some Muchi Muchi Pork for a few days until I'm ready to enjoy Sekiro again. I probably overdid it yesterday because my wife was away and I played about ten hours or something daft. I'm sure I'd find Dark Souls a bit of a slog after that much time. To my tastes, though, all the previous FROM games were better at rewarding your successes with a new area to explore or a change of pace in some way. This is stacked with bosses and minibosses and not an awful lot in-between.

I'm slightly frustrated to have missed various things on this run because I don't feel I'll be in a great hurry for NG+. I'll definitely be following a walkthrough next time to see everything it has to offer. I've done some NPC quests but I know I've missed a few different things along the way.

[Moribunderast]

I reckon you'll be fine with the last boss, Boston. You seem to be better at these games (or maybe more patient and less annoyed) than I. If you're very good at deflections I think you can get through it much quicker than my attempts. It's definitely the method I'm using that is lending itself to me getting jack of the fight, as it's a long, drawn-out affair the way I'm doing it and 3 attempts will take me about an hour. Have spent 9 hours trying to beat the guy and only got to the last phase twice and then got nowhere near delivering a final blow in that phase. I'd feel far more encouraged if each failed attempt wasn't 20 minutes wasted. You'll be fine, though.

Gav (Miracle Of Sound) said a lot I agreed with re: Sekiro on the latest Jim Sterling podcast. Basically saying he really liked the game but he found the difficulty more punishing than any previous Soulsborne game and that he was drained by the prevalence of hard-as-fuck bosses with very little exploration or content in-between to counteract the frustration caused by constantly hitting brick walls. Some of the boss fights require such prolonged concentration and while most eventually "clicked" for me and I came to really appreciate them (hated Grape at first but now think it's a brilliant fight, for the most part) it can just be a fucking exhausting game to play. That's how I feel with the final boss: exhausted. 9 hours of trying to beat something, knowing that each attempt is another 15-20 minutes, likely wasted time, just becomes a fucking downer. I may be blanking but I don't remember any other Soulsborne fights being so lengthy. An attempt of even the later bosses felt like it would be 3-5 minutes.

And again, I'm not talking about the last boss in disappointed tones to disparage the game. The boss feels fair, it's just much harder than I can manage re: parrying and the other method to victory is an overlong slog that is mentally draining and time-consuming to the point where I no longer enjoy it. I wish, wish, wish I was better at parrying so I could do it the way I reckon the devs intended. But, for me, it's definitely no longer fun at this point - it's just become a task to do out of stubbornly wanting to put the game in my "Finished" folder.

[The Boston Crab]

I'll have to check out the JS podcast, not least because those comments are exactly how I feel about it at this point. The stealthing around and grappling and BOOSH deathblows and stuff is amazing. Some of the bosses are amazing, probably all of them in fairness, it's just become a bit relentless.

It reminds me of the Defiled Amygdala fight from Bloodborne. A successful attempt was going to take me a good fifteen or twenty minutes with the only strategy I could manage, which was bait the big slam, run in for one sprinting hit and run out. The issue was that any error in timing or spacing and I was dead. Phase 2 was worse because of the RNG of the stamping legs and the need to be under the boss. That took me a good fifty or a hundred attempts. I've no idea. I almost felt like crying, not just with frustration but because I realised that may well just be the point that my coordination and reflexes and concentration were not enough to get me through this. It really got under my skin and became quite an obsession on an existential level which the themes of the game didn't especially help with. This is no exaggeration, by the way, it was disturbing. When I eventually did it, through pure perseverance and the RNG not killing me, I annihilated everything else after that, got the Platinum and I've barely picked up the game since. It still makes me feel queasy to think about it.

[Thursday]

I've basically ended up looking a lot of stuff up to make sure I don't miss anything because I figured I'm not going to want to play through this again anytime soon, since there's really not much point as it'll be the same build everytime. It's also because without intending it, I ended up doing a few steps towards a particular ending. I'd picked up some weird items and so I looked up what they actually do and realised it was towards what seems to be the most complicated ending. So I figured I'll go for that on this playthorugh.

It's also worth nothing that there is an item you can get that essentially allows you to level up your attack power with skill points. (Although 5 skill points at a time. so a big grind)

[Thursday]

Oh got to the final boss, tried it once and yeah I don't know if I can be bothered. Got through the first phase easily but it can fuck off if it expects me to do that again each time. I  can't fathom why they've done it like this. It crept into Dark Souls 3 more and more this kind of multi phase stuff and I don't get it. Each phase is an interesting unique enough encounter on it's own. They could just make the fights longer but allow you to keep progress between them.

Oh well I've seen everything in the game now I think, just bosses left, so that's fine.

Just a shame. I was going to say that this game exists in a tier below demon's/dark/bloodborne but above DS2 and 3, but too many things have knocked it back down to DS2 and 3 level.

[Timothy]

That final boss sucks. The first phase should have been a separate fight imo. It goes from amazing to I dont wanna do this again. Tedious.

I loved loved loved Sekiro until GO. Everything after that felt like a slog. Boss rush indeed. One half great game other half dull.

[Moribunderast]

Oh got to the final boss, tried it once and yeah I don't know if I can be bothered. Got through the first phase easily but it can fuck off if it expects me to do that again each time. I  can't fathom why they've done it like this. It crept into Dark Souls 3 more and more this kind of multi phase stuff and I don't get it. Each phase is an interesting unique enough encounter on it's own. They could just make the fights longer but allow you to keep progress between them.

Oh well I've seen everything in the game now I think, just bosses left, so that's fine.

Just a shame. I was going to say that this game exists in a tier below demon's/dark/bloodborne but above DS2 and 3, but too many things have knocked it back down to DS2 and 3 level.

I've kept trying - now attempting to just man up and learn the parrying but it's just such a slog. Doing multiple phases that you've successfully completed about 50 times just to get to the bit you're stuck at is incredibly frustrating and dispiriting. My last attempt I literally got to the tricky phase without having taken a hit - was immediately hit with an unblockable attack and then, while staggered and unable to move, hit again and killed. Resurrected, got some parries in, some hits in, mistimed a Mikri counter and dead again. Go back and do those first phases mate. The amount of times I've died in that first phase, despite the fact I can get through it without taking damage in about 30 seconds generally, just because I'm frustrated and rushing to get back to the actual bit that will test my mettle. No fun, mate. No fun. I'm just fucking compelled because it's gonna drive me insane having this game sitting in my "uncompleted" folder just because I couldn't beat the last boss. It's God Hand all over again. I hope Miyazaki gets his dick caught in his zipper while simultaneously stubbing his toe, the sadist.

[Thursday]

Did you discover the secet boss DOH by the way?

[Moribunderast]

Did you discover the secet boss DOH by the way?

I did not and just taking a quick look at a video of it, it seems FUCKED, haha.

[Timothy]

I also skipped DOH. Doesn't look fun.

[Moribunderast]

I own a physical copy of this game. Legit just considered snapping the disc in half so I stop putting myself through this.

EDIT: I'm sorry for filling the last page or so with miserable whining while fighting this boss. I've basically fallen into an OCD spiral of trying it again and again all day and it's made me fucken miserable, haha. I've actually gotten far better at it but even being able to counter his attacks in phase 3 regularly doesn't help because if you fuck up once, you're toast. It's satisfying, at least, to see sooo many other people have found this guy near-impenetrable. Having the final phases connected to the earlier phases without any kind of checkpoint, meanwhile your resources drop each time you fail AND everyone gets dragon rot just to make sure you're properly dispirited is just fucking cruel. The frustrating thing is I do feel like I'm getting better, closer, but it's just so OP - even deflecting and countering you still have to hit the fucker so many times, barely making a dint in his health while he can basically insta-kill you if you make the slightest timing error after 10 minutes hardcore concentration. It's literally not healthy that I continue trying to do this.

[Timothy]

Sell it to CEX and uninstall. Thats what I did.

[The Boston Crab]

Don't give up, skeleton...

But do have a break.

[Thursday]

Yeah I think it's that the sheer number of bosses or Boss to exploration ratio, just create fatigue with this game. If you explored all other avenues and you're struggling with a boss, then the thought of spending your day hitting your head against a wall isn't appealing. You know you can do it, but it's a real emotional investment to do it and I don't really want to feel the way Sekiro will make me feel today. I'll rest and be back in the mood another time.

[The Boston Crab]

I've just been doing a bit of farming in the FP. Wow. What a stunning area that is. Also completed a fishy kind of quest but not overly thrilled with the reward. Was cool from a visual POV, though. I do think it's a very beautiful game in the end, even if it's definitely in the vein of a Nightmare Frontier/Hemwick kind of aesthetic at times. The foliage can be quite busy. I was also surprised to find the Sakura B! Probably going to knock that off and crack onto O:F.

[Timothy]

Tried Bloodborne today because I enjoyed Sekiro. But can't seem to get into that game. It's too vague and can't get into the combat after Sekiro.

Are the Dark Souls games more similar to BB or Sekiro?

[The Boston Crab]

What do you mean by vague?

BB is much closer to Sekiro than the Souls games. Very accessible and straightforward.

If you found Sekiro obtuse and unforgiving and lacking in QoL or tutorials or whatever, the Souls games will seem almost deliberately obscure, which they are.

[Timothy]

No Sekiro was pretty straight forward. It all made sense. Didn't get hard until I was halfway Hirata.

But the whole beginning of Bloodborne is so vague. You fight the first fight but you can't win, you appear somewhere and get a weapon, go to the new area and there are lots of enemies you can't defeat, no idea where to go etc. Didn't feel straightforward and accessible to me.

[The Boston Crab]

It's very relative.

Which enemies can't you defeat?

Also, you can beat that first beast, by the way. You don't have to die, believe it or not.

Looking forward to getting wound up by your early impressions! :D

[Timothy]

At the start of the game there are some stairs that lead to people around a bonfire. There are too many to defeat. The other way around is a boss that doesn't seem like a good option right now.

I have to say I really enjoy this forum when it comes to games (and wrestling). We might disagree with each other on occasion (or sometimes more often then not) but we all love videogames and defend our passion with solid arguments. This thread has been great. Looking forward to the Bloodborne discussion.

In your opinion: Is Bloodborne or Sekiro the better game?

[The Boston Crab]

Me too, mate. Absolutely love it and you're a damn good sport when I occasionally lose my damn mind.

You can totally take those bastards round the bonfire by the way. Throw a few rocks and lead them away one at a time. It's such a great opening area, in my opinion.

I'd say at this point Bloodborne is considerably better than Sekiro. Once you get into the lore and stuff (probably after you finish it) you'll see quite how much depth there is to it and how holistic the entire game is in concept and execution. It's one of the few genuine masterpieces this gen for me.

[brat-sampson]

Can't beat GrO. I know how, and I'm not even that bad at it, but he punishes mistakes so fucking harshly and rips through posture too.

Oh well, more attempts tomorrow.

[Fishfinger]

In your opinion: Is Bloodborne or Sekiro the better game?

BB, no question.

You can totally take those bastards round the bonfire by the way. Throw a few rocks and lead them away one at a time. It's such a great opening area, in my opinion.

^ This. You're probably way past this now, but peeling off enemies from groups using pebbles is a sound early strategy. Once you've cleared an area but die and have to repeat it, just run through it. It took me a long time to get on board with that, but it's not cheesy, it's good sense.

If you'd like to start a new Bloodborne thread for your play-through, I for one would love to read it.