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Resident Evil 2 Remake

Started by St_Eddie, June 12, 2018, 10:10:56 PM

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St_Eddie

Ever since the trailer from E3 dropped, there's been some discussion of this within the Resident Evil 7 thread but it deserves its own thread, surely?  I'll post the quotes from the other thread below...

Quote from: popcorn on June 12, 2018, 12:39:05 PM
RE2 Remake trailer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtxJtQa6VSw

Looks great. Spooky and camp in appropriate quantities. Lovely models.

Strange how seeing zombies in this context - stumbling around in shopping malls and police stations, Romero-style - suddenly feels fresh, compared to the way they've been used in the last decade (running through post-apocalyptic cities while sinister banjos play). The circle of life.

Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on June 12, 2018, 12:46:30 PM
Far too scary. Will avoid.

Quote from: bgmnts on June 12, 2018, 12:49:05 PM
This better not be Leon only. I only saw Claire for a millisecond in that trailer. I want two scenarios.

To be honest, they really should have just done REmake but for Resi 2. That would have been perfect. Imagine how insane pre rendered textures would look nowadays, with the fixed camera.

It looks okay though; I wonder how much it will deviate from the original. This game has been in the pipeline for a good long while now so hopefully it doesnt disappoint.

Quote from: magval on June 12, 2018, 08:23:35 PM
Looks reeeeal fuckin' good, that does.

Kelvin

Do we know if it has a static camera, like the original REmake, or is it a 3rd person remake in the style of the games post Resi 4, or even first person, like 7?

magval

Almost definitely RE4 style from some of the over-the-shoulder shots in the video, but I'd be happy with any of the three options.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Kelvin on June 12, 2018, 10:31:55 PM
Do we know if it has a static camera, like the original REmake, or is it a 3rd person remake in the style of the games post Resi 4, or even first person, like 7?

As magval mentions, there's a shot in the trailer of Leon approaching the police station and it looks as though it may be actual gameplay footage, if so then it's set to be 3rd person, in the style of Resident Evil 4.

I would have loved fixed camera angles but I gave up on that hope a while back.  An option to choose between 'over the shoulder' and fixed camera angles would be the best of both worlds but it's probably far too much effort on Capcom's part to make it worthwhile.

bgmnts

They did it in Lost in Nightmares DLC for Resi 5. They could make it an option.

St_Eddie

Quote from: bgmnts on June 13, 2018, 12:05:19 AM
They did it in Lost in Nightmares DLC for Resi 5. They could make it an option.

Yes, I did consider this.  I think it's best to expect the worst but hope for the best though, in order to avoid (probable) disappointment.

Desirable Industrial Unit

We've only seen a few minutes and it being Leon-heavy isn't that much of a concern, but as bgmnts says up there, we need to be able to play as both characters.  I can't see why we wouldn't, but I do think they might ditch the best idea in the game:  that you only really get to the end on your second go, as the other character.  That I can see being out the window, and for me it's the most important thing to carry over.  Such a great idea, and they never really arsed themselves with it again.

Whatever it is it's not a straight remake, which is good, but the videos don't really suggest the tone or feel of the original, which is a bit less good.  There was a bit of a panto edge to RE2, partly down to its completely ridiculous setting, and that seems to have been lost.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Desirable Industrial Unit on June 13, 2018, 01:33:56 AM
We've only seen a few minutes and it being Leon-heavy isn't that much of a concern, but as bgmnts says up there, we need to be able to play as both characters.  I can't see why we wouldn't, but I do think they might ditch the best idea in the game:  that you only really get to the end on your second go, as the other character.  That I can see being out the window, and for me it's the most important thing to carry over.  Such a great idea, and they never really arsed themselves with it again.

I suspect that the remake will have the player switching between control of Leon and Claire throughout a single playthrough (that switch occurring at pre-designated points of the story).  This will, of course, be pants in comparison to the original but still, I've just got a hunch that this is the path that Capcom will take. 

popcorn

I haven't played RE2 so maybe the dual-character thing is brilliant, but I don't like the sounds of it. It's a design approach I'm happy to leave in the 90s.

My understanding is that both characters have mostly the same experience but with a few changes. Which is sounds like a lot of redundancy to me - why invest development resources into implementing small changes to add replay value when you could be making the first experience better?

Mister Six

It does look like they might have dropped it for this - looks like Leon is reporting for duty and doesn't realise how bad things have gotten until he's actually in the station, suggesting the original game's intro - with the mad explosions and billions of zombs - won't be happening. Which in turn suggests he won't meet Claire until later in the story.

Somehow a proper remake of Resi 2 with new puzzles and changes to the plot and structure seems more redundant than just doing a high-res clone of the original. Is this really what anyone wants?

St_Eddie

Quote from: popcorn on June 13, 2018, 05:15:39 AM
I haven't played RE2 so maybe the dual-character thing is brilliant, but I don't like the sounds of it. It's a design approach I'm happy to leave in the 90s.

My understanding is that both characters have mostly the same experience but with a few changes. Which is sounds like a lot of redundancy to me - why invest development resources into implementing small changes to add replay value when you could be making the first experience better?

You're not wrong.  I loved the concept of the A/B scenarios in Resident Evil 2 and I enjoyed the execution, to a point but you're right; it would have worked so much better if you really were seeing a single story from two different perspectives.  In reality, like you say, it was mostly the same experience (with a lot of the same puzzles) but with minor changes here and there and a half-arsed attempt at making it seem like your B scenario character was running through locations which your A scenario character had already visited and altered the state of.

It was a weird half-way point between being the same story from two perspectives and the character select from the original Resident Evil.  The addition of Mr X in the B scenario was ace though (I guess that he'll just be there during the initial playthrough of the remake).

Quote from: Mister Six on June 13, 2018, 05:28:48 AM
Somehow a proper remake of Resi 2 with new puzzles and changes to the plot and structure seems more redundant than just doing a high-res clone of the original. Is this really what anyone wants?

I definitely do want this but I also agree that, so far, it doesn't seem like Capcom are making the remake in the way that I'd personally have liked them too.  I'm still excited to play it regardless and if it sucks, we'll always have the original version to fall back on.  I always knew that they weren't going to give this remake the same treatment that they did for the remake of the first game.  I've made my peace with that.

popcorn

Quote from: Mister Six on June 13, 2018, 05:28:48 AM
Somehow a proper remake of Resi 2 with new puzzles and changes to the plot and structure seems more redundant than just doing a high-res clone of the original. Is this really what anyone wants?

I do! I can't be fucked to play the original but love the police station premise.

popcorn

#12
Gameplay footage here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foExEoU29Zo

And yeh confirmed as RE4-style camera. (WHICH IS GOOD)

brat-sampson

Seems like a full-on reimagining. Different control style, added elements but keeping the setting, the vibes, the characters/plot etc. It also looks like even more of a return to Survival Horror than 7. This is dark. Enemies are strong. T-Virus zombies are confirmed to be no walk in the park and you won't be gunning down hordes of Las Plagas. 7 had a different vibe to it entirely, but this looks downright oppressive.

Kelvin

Quote from: popcorn on June 13, 2018, 05:49:04 AM
Gameplay footage here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foExEoU29Zo

And yeh confirmed as RE4-style camera. (WHICH IS GOOD)

That looks great!

St_Eddie

#15
Quote from: popcorn on June 13, 2018, 05:49:04 AM
Gameplay footage here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foExEoU29Zo

I don't know about this.  It looks great but it just doesn't feel like Resident Evil 2 to me.  It comes across more as a entirely different game, wearing the skin of Resident Evil 2.  I know that the developers themselves are going to great lengths to say that this is a "new game" but I kinda question what the point is, if they're calling it Resident Evil 2.

My biggest concern from the gameplay footage is that you'd damn well better be able to restore the lights in the police station at some point.  It's hard to explain but I liked the juxtaposition of bright environments and monsters in the original version.  I don't want to spend the entire game walking around dark, samey environments, holding a flashlight to see where I'm going.  That could get old, fast.

Still, like I say, it does look great in its own right.

Quote from: popcorn on June 13, 2018, 05:49:04 AMAnd yeh confirmed as RE4-style camera. (WHICH IS GOOD)

Well, it's good for people like you, who absolutely suck at tank controls.  For some of us old school Resi fans, it's perhaps not ideal.  Fixed camera angles in a Resident Evil game will always be where my heart truly lies.  Not so much for the controls but more because it allowed the developers to play the part of a film director and setup Romero, Raimi and Hitchcock style shots, making it feel as though you were playing an interactive film by one of the all-time greats of cinema (visually at least; I don't think that any of the mentioned directors would have signed off on the script to those early Resident Evil games).

magval

Quote from: St_Eddie on June 13, 2018, 09:40:00 AM
I don't think that any of the mentioned directors would have signed off on the script to those early Resident Evil games).

Romero actually wrote a script for an RE movie, you know.

bgmnts

Yeah tank controls are fucking ace. It would be hard to make a game that has over the shoulder camera AND fixed camera option though as you'd have to either have really good enemies or really shit enemies.

The zombies were shit in the original resi because of the shitty tank controls. Can you imagine playing a game with tank controls with modern, fast intelligent enemies? Every enemy would be like Nemesis.

AsparagusTrevor

Quote from: magval on June 13, 2018, 10:01:09 AM
Romero actually wrote a script for an RE movie, you know.
Plus he directed the Japanese commercials for RE2.

St_Eddie

Quote from: magval on June 13, 2018, 10:01:09 AM
Romero actually wrote a script for an RE movie, you know.

As a huge fan of Romero and Resident Evil; yeah, I know.  I've read his script and whilst it isn't perfect, I can certainly say that I would have infinitely preferred to see his movie get made, over Paul WS Anderson's cinematic turd.

I love the fact that Romero, as a non-gamer, sat down with a fella and had him play Resident Evil from beginning to end, whilst Romero took notes.  He really tried to be relatively faithful to the game.  Whereas, by all accounts, Paul WS Anderson is a gamer but you'd know it from his Resident Evil movie series.

Spoon of Ploff

Putting gameplay style aside for one  minute if they don't include Gun Shop Guy I will be absolutely livid.

madhair60


magval

Quote from: Spoon of Ploff on June 13, 2018, 10:35:50 AM
Putting gameplay style aside for one  minute if they don't include Gun Shop Guy I will be absolutely livid.

Aye, that cunt.

Speaking to Leon, he says something like "I have no idea" why the town is full of zombies.

Speaking to CLAIRE, he turns into a rootin tootin cowboy cunt, and says "I ain't got no clue darlin'".

St_Eddie

Quote from: Spoon of Ploff on June 13, 2018, 10:35:50 AM
Putting gameplay style aside for one  minute if they don't include Gun Shop Guy I will be absolutely livid.

Gun Shop Guy is one thing but if rumours are to be believed, there's no sewer 'gator either!

popcorn

Doing it with tank controls and fixed camera angles would be a thick decision, and not just for commercial reasons.

I've even seen people long for prerendered backgrounds - "can you imagine how good prerendered backgrounds would look today?????" The answer is they wouldn't look significantly better from how realtime, static, inorganic environments currently look, because we're really good at doing those at this point - and in many ways they'd look much worse, because you wouldn't be able to update the lighting (so a shadowy corridor would always be shadowy even as you shone your torch into it), characters wouldn't be able to interact with it (in terms of animation, pressing against walls etc)... it would be ghastly.

Quoteit allowed the developers to play the part of a film director and setup Romero, Raimi and Hitchcock style shots, making it feel as though you were playing an interactive film by one of the all-time greats of cinema

Mate, it's not fucken Director Simulator 2000. The camera angles are shit half the time - treated as a "film" comprised of camera angles and cuts, the game makes no fucking sense whatsoever.

popcorn

Quote from: St_Eddie on June 13, 2018, 10:28:20 AM
As a huge fan of Romero and Resident Evil;

Are you so twisted that you're even italicising director names now?

St_Eddie

Quote from: popcorn on June 13, 2018, 10:58:15 AM
Doing it with tank controls and fixed camera angles would be a thick decision, and not just for commercial reasons.

What are the reasons, aside from the commercial ones?

Quote from: popcorn on June 13, 2018, 10:58:15 AMMate, it's not fucken Director Simulator 2000. The camera angles are shit half the time - treated as a "film" comprised of camera angles and cuts, the game makes no fucking sense whatsoever.

What I mean, is that for me personally, the fixed camera angles add to the cinematic feel.  When I watch a film, I'm glad to have the filmmaker choose how I view each shot.  I don't want to watch a film where I have control of the camera.  Obviously, most of the time, it's a good thing that games allow the player to have control of the camera but for certain games, such as Resident Evil, I prefer to have the camera angles pre-selected for me.  It adds to the atmosphere and the horror, in my opinion.  Not being able to see a monster when you enter a room but to be able to hear it; that's a key part of survival horror for me and you tend to lose that when you have a clear view of everything in front of you.

Quote from: popcorn on June 13, 2018, 11:06:26 AM
Are you so twisted that you're even italicising director names now?

Oops.  That was just a mistake on my part.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Assuming it controls the same way as Resi 4, it still does use tank controls.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on June 13, 2018, 11:25:17 AM
Assuming it controls the same way as Resi 4, it still does use tank controls.

Good point.

Kelvin

I do understand the fixed camera argument, but I also think that it has to be balanced against the sheer awkwardness of playing the game that way. If a game can't create atmosphere and tension without a fixed camera, that's a failing of the game, not the POV.