Resident Evil 2 Remake

[St_Eddie]

I do understand the fixed camera argument, but I also think that it has to be balanced against the sheer awkwardness of playing the game that way. If a game can't create atmosphere and tension without a fixed camera, that's a failing of the game, not the POV.

Hmm... I'm not sure if that's a fair comment to make.  The original Resident Evil games were built around the fixed camera angles.  You can't exactly say "well, it wouldn't have been as tense if it were viewed from behind the player or a 1st person perspective, so therefore the game is badly designed and relying on fixed camera angles in order to create tension'.  If it were played from a different perspective, then the developers would surely have altered the core gameplay to reflect that change.  However, it was designed for fixed camera angles and as such, the developers crafted the game around that.

The fact of the matter is that I and many other people enjoy playing horror games with fixed camera angles.  However, we're in the minority because most people prefer to play 'over the shoulder' in in 1st person and as such, I accept that developers are going to cater to the larger crowd.  That's still not going to change the minority group to which I belong's mind though and suddenly make us say "yeah, fixed camera angles are shite because the masses have spoken".  To each their own, I say.

[Bazooka]

Nothing like a fixed camera angle to give a horror boner, they work so well in survival horrors because you can enemies shuffling around but see them yet.

[Kelvin]

Hmm... I'm not sure if that's a fair comment to make.  The original Resident Evil games were built around the fixed camera angles.  You can't exactly say "well, it wouldn't have been as tense if it were viewed from behind the player or a 1st person perspective, so therefore the game is badly designed and relying on fixed camera angles to create tension'.  If it were played from a different perspective, then the developers would surely have altered the core gameplay to reflect that change.  However, it was designed for fixed camera angles and so the developers crafted the gameplay with that in mind.

I agree entirely. They were designing a game around their technical limitations, and came up with the best way to make that tense.

Now, though, those technical limitations have been removed, and there are other ways to generate atmosphere and tension without relying on camera angles and controls that frequently work against the experience as much as they contribute towards it.   

The fact of the matter is that I and many other people enjoy playing horror games with fixed camera angles.  However, we're in the minority because most people prefer to play 'over the shoulder' in in 1st person and as such, I accept that developers are going to cater to the larger crowd.  That's still not going to change the minority group to which I belong's mind though and suddenly make us say "yeah, fixed camera angles are shite because the masses have spoken".  To each their own, I say.

In fairness, I don't think anyone here was trying to strong arm you into changing your opinion. We're all just putting our cases across.

[brat-sampson]

Easy Allies impressions. Huber's a fucking hyperfan of the original, and has been stoked about this for years, but they both have basically nothing but positive things to say. Covers fixed cameras straight off, said after 5m he was in anyway. Superb atmosphere and surprisingly willing to be pitch black.

Can border up windows. One zombie can take you out. Knife has durability and can be used as a list-ditch escape a la REMake. Leon has weight, moves slowly, nothing like RE4.

[St_Eddie]

Now, though, those technical limitations have been removed, and there are other ways to generate atmosphere and tension without relying on camera angles and controls that frequently work against the experience as much as they contribute towards it.

For most people, that holds true.  The niche crowd who like the fixed camera angles, still see worth in them though.  If this were a entirely new game, then I wouldn't even bring up the issue of fixed camera angles.  I had zero issues with Resident Evil VII being in 1st person, for example.  I absolutely adore that game and rank it equally alongside the remake of the original Resident Evil, as my favourite survival horror game.  I think the issue, for some at least, is that this is a remake of a beloved classic which did originally feature fixed camera angles.

At what point does remaking a classic game become too far removed from its origin to be considered a remake, if you're changing the very essence of the gameplay itself?  It's a bit like with how the Final Fantasy VII remake is doing away with turn based battles; I and others aren't keen on that change either.

If a title's gameplay is considered so dated that it's no longer commercially viable, then perhaps it's best not to remake it in the first place, if all you're going to do is change it to the point where it's barely recognisable.  I understand that Capcom are hoping to appeal to a new generation of gamers with this remake (and I'm sure that they will)  but that's to do with profits and not necessarily what's best for the fans of the original.

In fairness, I don't think anyone here was trying to strong arm you into changing your opinion. We're all just putting our cases across.

Aye, fair enough.

[AsparagusTrevor]

I've even seen people long for prerendered backgrounds - "can you imagine how good prerendered backgrounds would look today?????" The answer is they wouldn't look significantly better from how realtime, static, inorganic environments currently look, because we're really good at doing those at this point - and in many ways they'd look much worse, because you wouldn't be able to update the lighting (so a shadowy corridor would always be shadowy even as you shone your torch into it), characters wouldn't be able to interact with it (in terms of animation, pressing against walls etc)... it would be ghastly.

Check out Nocturne (plus its Blair Witch spin-offs) Alone in The Dark: The New Nightmare, they both managed to have real-time lighting in pre-rendered backgrounds via clever masking.

[Ferris]

No tank controls, no fixed camera angles, new story, no beleaguered gun store owner who hasn't a breeze what's going on, remind me what game this is a remake of?

[St_Eddie]

No tank controls, no fixed camera angles, new story, no beleaguered gun store owner who hasn't a breeze what's going on, remind me what game this is a remake of?

Didn't you hear the developer, during the E3 demo, say "it's a new game, not a remake".  It's a new game which is called Resident Evil 2, for some reason.

It looks promising and a decent horror game in its own right but yeah, the more that I think about it, the more disappointed I am that they've seemingly changed everything which made Resident Evil 2, well... Resident Evil 2.

[popcorn]

Check out Nocturne (plus its Blair Witch spin-offs) Alone in The Dark: The New Nightmare, they both managed to have real-time lighting in pre-rendered backgrounds via clever masking.

There are ways to achieve it, but they're shitter than the real thing, and unnecessary with modern tech.

[bgmnts]

Aye, that cunt.

Speaking to Leon, he says something like "I have no idea" why the town is full of zombies.

Speaking to CLAIRE, he turns into a rootin tootin cowboy cunt, and says "I ain't got no clue darlin'".

Robert Kendo sacrificed his life for the people of Raccoon City show some fucking respect!

[biggytitbo]

The gameplay demo of this looks pretty good - RE7 graphics, RE4 viewpoint, RE2 atmosphere.

[Mister Six]

you wouldn't be able to update the lighting (so a shadowy corridor would always be shadowy even as you shone your torch into it), characters wouldn't be able to interact with it (in terms of animation, pressing against walls etc)... it would be ghastly.

You're wrong there. The new Torment game does exactly that by overlaying an "invisible" 3D version of the pre-rendered background over the 2D image, then using that to calculate shadows, highlights etc. It looks good, too.

Not that I think pre-rendered backdrops would necessarily have been a good idea.

[popcorn]

You're wrong there. The new Torment game does exactly that by overlaying an "invisible" 3D version of the pre-rendered background over the 2D image, then using that to calculate shadows, highlights etc. It looks good, too.

Not that I think pre-rendered backdrops would necessarily have been a good idea.

I'm hereby updating my official stance to YOU CAN FAKE LIGHTING AND STUFF WITH PRERENDERED BACKGROUNDS, BUT IT WON'T BE AS EFFICIENT AS DOING IT FOR REAL, AND IT'S FOR THICKOS. The technical reasons for doing it in a modern video game are dead.

[AsparagusTrevor]

So why did you say it couldn't be done, eh? Why?

[Z]

Always preferred the PAL box art for RE2 to the US.

[popcorn]

So why did you say it couldn't be done, eh? Why?

_{can't be done}

[St_Eddie]

Always preferred the PAL box art for RE2 to the US.

That's true for videogames in general.  The European art tends to be more sophisticated and classy, than the American counterpart.  The Final Fantasy games are a great example of this...

North American release

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

European release

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Ico is another classic example. I started a thread relating to this topic, with Resi 2 as the starting point. www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,55516.0.html

Back to REmake 2 and I too was (mildly) disappointed by the switch in camera angles. How will the interrogation room mirror bit work now? Then again, I still have the original on PS1 and this new version looks pretty damned swish on its own merits.

[St_Eddie]

Back to REmake 2 and I too was (mildly) disappointed by the switch in camera angles. How will the interrogation room mirror bit work now?

That's a great point.  Either Capcom leaves it as it was and risks the player not looking in the correct place (towards the one way mirror) or they have the game switch to a cutscene, which will completely take away from the surprise.  Alternatively, they may subvert player expectations and surprise us somehow ("oh, you think that this is going to happen because you've played the original?  Haha.  No but THIS is!").

[manuaarora]

Spam

[Famous Mortimer]

I hated the controls of the original RE games, and never bothered completing them as a result. RE 4 is my favourite, and the favourite of everyone I've ever had a conversation with about it (outside this forum, obviously). Small sample size, but the idea of having tank controls, for human characters, in 2018, would be a terrible idea (in my opinion, naturally).

If you really don't like the idea, then RE2 is still there for you to play, I guess?

[popcorn]

Some good dialogue to look forward to.

[Osmium]

The lack of music in the main hall of the police station is a glaring omission. In the original the music maintains a feeling of ominousness in what is a safe area. The remake seems to have you footering about in an almost dull silence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGQd4P6oTnE

[magval]

Always preferred the PAL box art for RE2 to the US.

The only time I ever had my own t-shirt printed was to get this on it.

[biggytitbo]

The lack of music in the main hall of the police station is a glaring omission. In the original the music maintains a feeling of ominousness in what is a safe area. The remake seems to have you footering about in an almost dull silence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGQd4P6oTnE

It's going to be a lot creepier without the music.