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I received a cheque in the post for £2,500 three weeks ago.

Started by Adrian Brezhnev, February 04, 2005, 05:01:16 PM

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Adrian Brezhnev

Good idea.... I am currently formultating a reply to the email he sent about his so called mistake. I'll use that as one suggestion!

Bernard

Quote from: "Adrian Brezhnev"
Does anyone recognise the signature on this?

The photo was taken this afternoon, minutes before I went in to Lloyds TSB to pay it in to my current account.

No but I recognise that thumb! You're dead!

Adrian Brezhnev


Make me smile

I'm a bit confused.

Is that the cheque you were sent?

That sort code, if my eyes aren't going funny, is 56-00-29

That's a Nat West sort code (50s/60s) wheras a Barclay's account should be in the 20s

did they accept it at the bank?

Mr Skinnylegs

Nat West, Piccadilly Circus Branch, to be precise. Matching the address at least.

Seems well dodgy to me.

MojoJojo

You could just tryasking at the bank. I'd imagine they must have some experience with cheque scams.

It sounds like they want you to cash the cheque, send them back the excess, then they'll cancel the cheque so you end up four grand out.

EDIT: Anyone else notice that I'm repeating stuff that has already been said? And I'm out by a good two grand? No? Carry on then.

Adrian Brezhnev

I spoke to Lloyds TSB on both Friday and Saturday saying that I had received a cheque from an unknown source and that I was concerened that it may be fraudulent.

I also said that I would very much appreciate an opportunity to discuss another matter with a personal advisor- my overdraft, and the fact that it is £3,000 over the allowed limit.

Each person I spoke to gave me different answers, but they all had one thing in common- they really seemed like they could not be arsed to talk to me. A number of them gave me an 0870 number to phone- and when I said that I HATE 0870 numbers, especially when they are for a call centre that will put you on hold and charge you for the priveledge, they just didn't know what to say.

I said I would be back on Monday, and they said that was a good idea, as more managers would be around.

That Natwest Picadilly sort code for a Barclays cheque is most intriguing. I think I'll visit Barclays on the way to Gnat West to hassle them too. By the way, I am making recordings of all these conversations for a radio comedy that I am working on.

mook

If it clears get a manicure, failing that a glove, you have one ghastly looking thumb please do not post anymore pictures of your retched digits. Thank you.

Make me smile

Quote from: "MojoJojo"You could just tryasking at the bank. I'd imagine they must have some experience with cheque scams.

It sounds like they want you to cash the cheque, send them back the excess, then they'll cancel the cheque so you end up four grand out.



As far as I can work out, you are right. But my goodness, they are evn sneakier than that!

*prepare for boring explanation about cheque banking*

I used to work as one of the monkeys out the back of Barclays branches that processes the cheques. I think the system has changed slightly now so that they have optical readers that scan the amount, but the process is basically the same.

So, you will take your cheque into the branch and pay it in over the till. The cheque and your paying in slip will then go out the back in a big pile.
I would then have a big pile of paying-in slips and a big pile of cheques, and my job was to run these through the machine and make them balance.

Unless your operator out the back was eagle-eyed, the chances are that they wouldnt spot that it was a nat west sort code on a barclay's cheque. So the cheque would go flying through and a note would be put on your account (electronically) that you had x amount waiting to clear into your account.

Actually, I have just realised you bank with Lloyds, so it's all done at the counter. Anyhoo, it's basically the same process

So, it would make it past the branch stage. If it failed at this stage then you wouldn't be sucked in to refunding them the money. But it has to fail at some stage, so when all the cheques get sent off to the clearing centre
it would be picked up as having the wrong sort code on it and bounce, not through lack of funds necessarily.

What I want to know is whether this is a real Nat West account of not, I'm guessing it can't be, as that would be incredibly stupid.

Well, i've bored myself to tears now, but hopefully your lives are now a little more enriched by this info.


edited for spazzy errors

Adrian Brezhnev

Quote from: "mook"If it clears get a manicure, failing that a glove, you have one ghastly looking thumb please do not post anymore pictures of your retched digits. Thank you.
That's the first time I have posted a photo of any of my digits here. The toes are worse- so don't worry... it is very unlikely that I will show you my thumb or any other of my extremities again.

Anyway, getting back to the point, I wrote to "mark david", for it is he- with the most Nigerian of names:
QuoteSorry to hear about the mix up.

Would it not be easier to get you to send a cheque for the correct amount? I could then tear up the original, incorrect cheque, and mail it back.
and he's come straight back with the not entirely unpredictable:
Quotehello,

    thanks for the message,dont worry about it, it would not be easy for me to issue out another cheque as it is now, mix up is not a problem here, how do i get the good as quick is the issue, you should  cash the cheque and let me know when you bank it and collect your payment and so you can ship it .......if there is any problem with you shipping let me know so i can arrange for another shipping option.
                                                             thanks.
These Nigerians are like little pets, and as long as I continue to feed them bullshit and keep them in the dark, while leaving my DVD recorders on the proverbial shelf, hopefully I won't lose anything apart from time.

Santa's Boyfriend

This is a really, really interesting thread.  I can't believe how devious these fuckers are, but I'm very curious to find out how all this turns out.

Adrian Brezhnev

Well, I paid in the cheque on Saturday- and should know by Thursday that it has bounced. Here's the dialogue I had with "mark" after visiting the bank...

QuoteTo: "mark david"
Subject: Re: urgent message / Philips DVD recorder
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:28:55 -0000

Sorry to hear about the mix up.

Would it not be easier to get you to send a cheque for the correct amount? I could then tear up the original, incorrect cheque, and mail it back.
QuoteFrom: mark david
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: urgent message / Philips DVD recorder

hello,

    thanks for the message,dont worry about it, it would not be easy for me to issue out another cheque as it is now, mix up is not a problem here, how do i get the good as quick is the issue, you should  cash the cheque and let me know when you bank it and collect your payment and so you can ship it .......if there is any problem with you shipping let me know so i can arrange for another shipping option.
                                                             thanks.
QuoteTo: "mark david"
Subject: Re: urgent message / Philips DVD recorder
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 19:53:41 -0000

Dear Mark,

Many thanks for writing straight back to me. So you're sure you'd like me to cash your cheque for £2,500 would you?

Could you remind me where you would like to have the goods sent, and by what method?

Oh, and who are Equivat by the way? Is that your company, or is it the company that your absent minded accountant works for?
QuoteFrom: mark david
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: urgent message / Philips DVD recorder

hello,

    thanks for he message,this is the shipping address ; 8 maid croft rd, crowley, oxford, ox4 3en please , ypu can use the standard parcel mail - delivery taking 2-4 days, go and cash the cheque and collect your payment.....as soon as that so you can help me send the goods. let me hear from you.

                                                thanks.
QuoteOkey dokey. I'll pay the cheque in.

Timmay

Heh, a UK address eh? It's not original, but could you get an old broken DVD player, rip out the insides, smash them up, throw them back in the case (make sure it clatters nicely), and then package that up and send it to him?

Then, if we have any whores around the Oxford area, they could do some surveillance on the day it's due to be delivered, and get some photos of him taking delivery, and then throwing the box out the house in rage.

Santa's Boyfriend

Or perhaps a note saying "you've been 412'd!" or whatever the number is.

bomb_dog

Quote from: "Timmay"Heh, a UK address eh? It's not original, but could you get an old broken DVD player, rip out the insides, smash them up, throw them back in the case (make sure it clatters nicely), and then package that up and send it to him?

Then, if we have any whores around the Oxford area, they could do some surveillance on the day it's due to be delivered, and get some photos of him taking delivery, and then throwing the box out the house in rage.

Make sure the packaging is immaculate, or he may try to claim off the post office. Its a shame you can't put bricks in it and post it with no return address = crazy no-stamped collection charge.

surreal

Reminds me of this guy who was being scammed by someone when he was selling an iBook - got his own back buy making a wonderful fake one out of a folder and some old keys, etc.  Even got the bloke to pay for delivery in the end... its a long read but worth it once you get to the pictures in the middle.  I think there's even some video footage of it being delivered:

http://www.mannequin3d.com/powerbook/

Timmay


Adrian Brezhnev

I am thinking of making a mini DVD (non)-player out of cardboard, and delivering it to him personally, while somone videos it all- Michael Moore style.

PyramidHead

Quote from: "Adrian Brezhnev"Well, I paid in the cheque on Saturday- and should know by Thursday that it has bounced.

Wasn't this scam only possible because it's technically possible to cancel a cheque even after it's been cashed?

I'll have to hunt for the links, but I think that what happens is:

* You cash the cheque
* It does't bounce
* You send him (£2500-£300?) by non-cancellable money transfer, plus the goods
* He cancels the cheque, and £2500 disappears from your bank.

Sorry if that's already covered somewhere above, I might have not clicked a relevant link.

Timmay

I don't think so. The point of a cheque clearing is that by that point, the money is yours. Still, I could be wrong...

Pinball

As I understand it, it is possible for a cheque to clear - i.e. you get the funds - then the originator cancels the cheque and you lose the money/have to pay it back. I doubt this Nigerian crime gang will have a UK bank account (for this purpose at least), as you could then easily get them via the Fraud Office, so I assume they've made fake cheques. Was the cheque paper watermarked etc. or a clear fake?

I very much doubt the funds will clear, but just a warning that even if they do you won't necessarily get to keep the money. It would be interesting to see what Barclay's and/or NatWest's fraud departments have to say!

With the gang having an Oxford address, how about setting up a sting op with the rozzers??? Now that would ensure you have a great show on your hands!

PyramidHead

Quote from: "Timmay"I don't think so. The point of a cheque clearing is that by that point, the money is yours. Still, I could be wrong...
How about if the Nigerian "buyer" reports their own cheque as fraudulent, as soon as the money transfer takes place?

Presumably they'd claim to know nothing about the cheque until the money disappeared from their account.

Pinball

It's very disturbing that criminals are employing this kind of scam. The next level of "sophistication" (probably already happening) is that they pay via credit card and then cancel the card payment, which you can do up to 28 days after the purchase I believe. If this scam takes off on a largescale it could pose a real threat to e-commerce. I guess the ultimate solution would be irreversible e-transactions, but those aren't widespread yet (unlike wire transfers that are). Any experts who can answer these questions??? PayPal eBay transactions may be more secure (are they irreversible?), but I'm not sure.

swinny

Mapquest of Postcode: OX4 3EN

...so it would appear to be a real address, although he says "Crowley" rather than "Cowley" which is a little odd...

I would offer to go an knock on his door...but I'd want paying precisely £2500 in danger money.

Adrian Brezhnev


Pinball

And here's an aerial photo of that address (look dead centre in the photo), though it's not terribly helpful! ho hum Looks strategically located on a corner and near phone box and bus stop though.

2003 electoral roll data (not for the adjacent bus stop!):
QuoteNon-existent accountant:
COLLINS THOMAS
5 MAIDCROFT ROAD OXFORD OX4 3EN  
ANGELA T THOMAS
5 MAIDCROFT ROAD OXFORD OX4 3EN  
QuoteDodgy delivery address:
ALISON MOYRA
8 MAIDCROFT ROAD OXFORD OX4 3EN
LYNN JONES
8 MAIDCROFT ROAD OXFORD OX4 3EN  
Is Moyra a Nigerian surname? Could Alison be the heart of a web of intrigue, deceit and corruption?

Or have I just drunk too much coffee?

TraceyQ

This thread is meat and drink to Pinball ;)

It's not just the nigerians that are at it, you know. My mum received a letter at her workplace this morning giving 7 days for her to pay a registration fee for the Data Protection act of £135 or she will be hit with a £5000 fine. My Mum being my Mum panicked a little at the thought of owing people money and called me.  The letter did look very official, but gave no telephone number and just a PO box number in Blackpool. I avised her to call Trading Standards and bin the bastard after I checked out this.

There are some proper twisted bastards out there and may they rot in hell.

Adrian Brezhnev

Alison Moyra? I went skiing with her dad once, and have tapes of some of her albums in the atic, no, hang on, that must be someone else I'm thinking of.

swinny

How about a reply to your little scamming friend saying "Small-world...I have a mate who lives just around the corner from you - he says he'd be happy to pop round and exchange the cheques etc - when is good for you? Vinnie can pop round anytime"

...surely any overly negative reply on his part would prove he's a no-good weasel.

Adrian Brezhnev

Great idea- I'll keep that one up my sleeve in the highly unlikely event that there is some problem with the cheque.