Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 12:02:17 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Anyone had any success of converting people out of horrid Youtubers?

Started by TrenterPercenter, June 17, 2018, 03:04:57 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

ASFTSN

Quote from: Z on June 18, 2018, 08:51:53 AM
I notice facebook ads going into overdrive trying to sell me on that lately, mustn't be doing too well?

Assuming it's taking place in one of the middling size venue spaces at the O2 I reckon it will probably sell out.

Z

Quote from: ASFTSN on June 18, 2018, 08:58:10 AM
Assuming it's taking place in one of the middling size venue spaces at the O2 I reckon it will probably sell out.
Facebook just thinks I'm mad into the old "free speech" then?

ieXush2i

Vic Berger's amazing Jordan Peterson vid:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6T47opnLyFw

Peterson is a messiah for men who feel belittled by the existence of women

ieXush2i

Quote from: Funcrusher on June 18, 2018, 08:13:33 AM
The fact that you would think this is the least shocking thing that has ever happened. It's difficult to be a disciple of someone you know almost nothing about.

But you're both so alike, I think that's why it's shocking. "What about Zoe Quinn?" is such a Petersonian response to the Whedon stuff it's uncanny.

madhair60

Quote from: (Ex poster) on June 18, 2018, 09:04:54 AM
Vic Berger's amazing Jordan Peterson vid:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6T47opnLyFw

Peterson is a messiah for men who feel belittled by the existence of women

Saw this yesterday, I wish someone like Shaun or HBomberguy would do a Peterson video I could get my teeth into.

ieXush2i


Funcrusher

Quote from: (Ex poster) on June 18, 2018, 09:08:11 AM
But you're both so alike, I think that's why it's shocking. "What about Zoe Quinn?" is such a Petersonian response to the Whedon stuff it's uncanny.

Is Peterson a Corbyn supporter? I know almost nothing about him.

Funcrusher

So are my choices to either be a disciple of (Ex poster) or Jordan Peterson? It doesn't seem like much of a choice.


Cloud

Quote from: ASFTSN on June 18, 2018, 08:44:18 AM
Stephen Fry is on one of his videos now.  Not that I've watched it.

Stephen Fry is a Peterson fan as well, he stood alongside him in a debate a few weeks ago

Obel

My advice for what it's worth is similar to a previous poster. I think you need to spend some time with your friend, just catch up here and there, as much as you're able to. He seems to be caught in these habits of watching a lot of these videos and it's not healthy. Not so much the content, but just being caught up in that world of watching people far away. I don't think you need to watch "alt-right" stuff to become detached, just staying in and watching anything will do that. He sounds lonely to me. If he starts off on the videos just respectfully say you're not interested in talking about those videos or politics, it's not that interesting to you. Or something.

How did a thread about somebody's friend become a thread about Jordan Peterson anyway?




Kelvin

Quote from: Obel on June 18, 2018, 10:05:02 AM
How did a thread about somebody's friend become a thread about Jordan Peterson anyway?

Every* thread on Cab becomes about Jordan Peterson, eventually. It's our own variation on Godwin's Law.


*one

Cloud

The OP was asking how to convert their friend back away from horrid Youtubers and giving Peterson as an example, so it kind of follows that he'd be part of the discussion...

Danger Man

Quote from: Funcrusher on June 18, 2018, 09:36:11 AM
So are my choices to either be a disciple of (Ex poster) or Jordan Peterson? It doesn't seem like much of a choice.

If those are the only options I'd advise you to clean your room and then kill yourself.

Obel

Quote from: Cloud on June 18, 2018, 10:35:59 AM
The OP was asking how to convert their friend back away from horrid Youtubers and giving Peterson as an example, so it kind of follows that he'd be part of the discussion...

Yeah I get that but if I started a thread saying I watch too many Marvel films and I wanted advice on different types of film to watch it would be disappointing to watch it degrade into a discussion about Marvel films simply because I mentioned it.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Cloud on June 18, 2018, 10:35:59 AM
The OP was asking how to convert their friend back away from horrid Youtubers and giving Peterson as an example, so it kind of follows that he'd be part of the discussion...

Yep he was very specifically regurgitating Peterson so it seems appropriate to discuss him although really any discussion about any youtuber and most importantly how they effect their viewers is important.

Peterson has successfully tapped into the angry male mind and regardless of how crap he is (He was on my radar straight away being a Clin Psych and having a voice in contemporary culture) he has now invaded my personal life by seemingly making a normal(ish) friend say things like "oppression doesn't exist anymore and when it did exist it doesn't matter because it is just nature".

Easy for me in my position to point out from a psychological sense why nearly all of what Peterson says is bullshit as I'm trained and worked in the area for 20 years, but I have to share a planet with people that aren't going to do that so I'm just wondering if there is any help for these people? and if not why not?  it is clear evangelism (only based around male status) as far as I can tell and whilst there are support groups for people getting out of other types of fanaticism

Icehaven

Does your friend know and spend time around many women that he (presumably) doesn't want to have sex with, like sisters or his Mother or colleagues he gets on OK with (or maybe even friends, although he doesn't sound like the kind of person who has female friends)? Maybe ask him what he'd think of them being subject to the kind of ideas and life the berks on these videos think they should have. It's a tactic I've tried (admittedly with limited success) when discussing racism and anti-immigration with people who genuinely seem to think the minorities or immigrants they personally know aren't the same as the ones they don't. Get them started on ethnic diversity or Eastern European immigration in general and they're just this faceless mass of interlopers that somehow doesn't include the Patels next door or Wojtek at work, because they're alright. Same goes for sexists, if women shouldn't be permitted to have the same rights as men and all that shit then ask them how they'd like their Mum or sisters or mates to be treated like that. If they shrug that off then they're probably sociopathic and best avoided.

pigamus

Quote from: (Ex poster) on June 18, 2018, 09:04:54 AM
Vic Berger's amazing Jordan Peterson vid:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6T47opnLyFw

Peterson is a messiah for men who feel belittled by the existence of women

Cannot stop laughing at this. The pointy finger! The snowballs!

greenman

Quote from: Large Noise on June 17, 2018, 07:57:33 PM
I can see why Peterson appeals to people. I'm too far gone on the old socialism, and too sympathetic to a lot of what he opposes, to take him seriously. But that brand of "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" social commentary he offers can definitely be cathartic. If you're someone who feels there's no such thing as society (and even if there is you're not part of it) the entertainment value of him putting the shitters up some liberal journalists outweighs any anxiety you might have as to the damage his message could cause.

Really though I think looking at the way Liberial/Left are used totally interchangeable across much of the more alt right parts of the net I'd say tells you why the two have been so successfully mixed, its a message that both sides have been happy to push.

The strength of the appeal of someone like Peterson ends up being IMHO that people can look at much of the mainstream media pushing capitalist neoliberialsm with a fig leaf of social liberialism and make the conclusion yes he's correct.

Quote from: Funcrusher on June 18, 2018, 09:36:11 AM
So are my choices to either be a disciple of (Ex poster) or Jordan Peterson? It doesn't seem like much of a choice.

Unfortunately, yes. It's very important to get talked into getting mad online by a culture-war *****t of some description, in these trying times.

Funcrusher

Quote from: greenman on June 18, 2018, 11:54:46 AM
Really though I think looking at the way Liberial/Left are used totally interchangeable across much of the more alt right parts of the net I'd say tells you why the two have been so successfully mixed, its a message that both sides have been happy to push.

The strength of the appeal of someone like Peterson ends up being IMHO that people can look at much of the mainstream media pushing capitalist neoliberialsm with a fig leaf of social liberialism and make the conclusion yes he's correct.

And the solution is for the left to see identity politics merchants for the Alt-centre soft neolib/neocons they are and give them the push.

ieXush2i

Quote from: Danger Man on June 18, 2018, 11:26:26 AM
If those are the only options I'd advise you to clean your room and then kill yourself.

But he has to make a theoretical choice between me or Lobster Daddy, so your joke, it don't work do it.

ieXush2i


Danger Man

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on June 18, 2018, 11:37:39 AM
Yep he was very specifically regurgitating Peterson so it seems appropriate to discuss him although really any discussion about any youtuber and most importantly how they effect their viewers is important.

Tell him it isn't enough just to watch Peterson videos, you actually have to act on his advice.

Which, paradoxical as it may seem, involves stopping watching Peterson videos and getting on with your life.

ieXush2i

Heard 12 Rules For Life described as "The Secret for incels" which seems pretty accurate.

Either your friend falls out of it Of his own accord or he'll be a Peterson cultist forever, I don't think you'll be able to talk him round anymore than if he was telling you how amazing Dianetics is.

garbed_attic

Big Question:

Does Peterson make Jung and his ideas look poisonous in retrospect?

Danger Man

I'm not easily shocked but if anybody on here has actually read Peterson's fucking book then I'll fall off my chair.

Icehaven

Quote from: (Ex poster) on June 18, 2018, 12:39:07 PM
Heard 12 Rules For Life described as "The Secret for incels" which seems pretty accurate.

I know virtually nothing about this bloke (only really seen him mentioned here) but Googled the 12 Rules for Life, and I'd actually be interested to read how this banal shite;

1.Stand up straight with your shoulders back
2.Treat yourself like someone you are responsible for helping
3.Make friends with people who want the best for you
4.Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not to who someone else is today
5.Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them
6.Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world
7.Pursue what is meaningful (not what is expedient)
8.Tell the truth – or, at least, don't lie
9.Assume that the person you are listening to might know something you don't
10.Be precise in your speech
11.Do not bother children when they are skateboarding
12.Pet a cat when you encounter one on the street

can somehow be expanded into an apparent incel tract. Is it a case of wilful (mis)interpretation or does it say things like ''Do not bother children when they're skateboarding - unless they're girls in which case take their skateboard off them and send them home to their Fathers.''

Sony Walkman Prophecies

All relative isn't it? He might be asking some people right now whether you need an intervention for spending time on CAB. We don't have much evidence that you're going to convert him into anything more worthwhile.

As for YT commentators going after liberals. I think it's all fair game really. If someone's arguments are sound, or they're making poor assumptions, those things deserve to be called out. I think all we're seeing now is the initial shock where it slowly sinks in that the criticism isn't coming in from traditional conservatives, but people who are themselves liberal, work at universities, are well-read, or just as fed-up as anyone else. I think there will be a long period of readjustment for the left in the wake of the new normal. At the moment, its still relying on the old tactics of calling anyone who disagrees with it xenophobic, racist or sexist. But, obvious at least to those who've already made the transition to the new state of play, these tactics won't work anymore. Not least of all because they simply add further proof to what it is that's actually being argued - namely, that identify politics in liberalism has virtually supplanted everything else. To see just how much the left is struggling to take these things on board, take a look at Pankaj Mishra's latest piece in the London Review of Books: sneering at the white working class, accusing other writers of prejudice, throwing around buzzwords like populism. These tossposts who have never had a single thought in their lives are now openly decrying the death of the intelligentsia whilst contributing precisely fuck all to the evolution and betterment of mankind. This is why we're here. These are the people who who have created Jordon Peterson, Milo, and all the various other sub-brands. And if people end up getting into even sillier shit, they'll be no doubt in my mind what lead them onto that either.