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Netflix's Hannah Gadsby's Nanette

Started by Theremin, June 23, 2018, 10:17:05 AM

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Theremin

This definitely deserves a thread of it's own.

What to say? It's genuinely brilliant and deserves all the acclaim.

The first 30 mins stand as an almost-perfect distillation of a modern 'Confessional'-style stand-up set, before moving on to deconstruct itself and the actual motivations behind that kind of show.

To me, it fits very well into the Deconstructionist tradition of stand-up that's developed over the last 20 years (one of the other key shows in this field would be SLee's 90's Comedian).

A lot has been written regarding what the show says about the 'Limits' of comedy, as described by the woman herself.

And it's a slightly difficult point to get to grips with, because we go:

"Right, comedy is essentially a truncated art form that relies on a limited field of expression to communicate - and for this reason cannot fundamentally communicate whole stories or speak a complete truth to power. Hang on, haven't we just watched a show that does exactly that?"

It's ironic that in a show attacking the structure of comedy, Gadsby has accidentally created quite a compelling argument for it.

Personally, what I take away from the show is a need for a further blurring of the boundaries between Stand-Up and Theatre.

This has been the hugely prevalent trend at the Edinburgh Festival over the past few years, with critically acclaimed shows fequently mixing Stand-Up, Theatre, and Clowning. Look at Zoe Coombs-Marr, Richard Gadd, John Kearns, Jordan Brookes, Natalie Palamides, Rob Kemp, Lucy Pearman, etc, etc, etc.

***

As an aside, I think it's a stupendously cruel and clever move by Gadsby to end up releasing this 1 month before the Edinburgh Fringe.

It almost guarentees that every comedian heading up there who's remotely interested in their craft will watch it, go "Shit, I need to up my game!", and then definitely not have the time to do that. But all the world's comics will be in once place and they will be chatting. About MeToo and the Limits of Comedy.

So hopefully everyone will stew in their own yearning for a year, then return with the fruits of those frustrations in 2019.

CaledonianGonzo

A good chunk of the comics in Edinburgh will have already seen it live, though. It's been playing festivals and touring for the last 18 months.  Gadd and Robin Ince were in watching it the night that we were there.

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on June 23, 2018, 11:40:56 AM
A good chunk of the comics in Edinburgh will have already seen it live, though. It's been playing festivals and touring for the last 18 months.  Gadd and Robin Ince were in watching it the night that we were there.

Mark Watson and Rhod Gilbert we're watching the night I was in

Theremin

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on June 23, 2018, 11:40:56 AM
A good chunk of the comics in Edinburgh will have already seen it live, though. It's been playing festivals and touring for the last 18 months.  Gadd and Robin Ince were in watching it the night that we were there.

Oh, for sure.

I think we're already seeing that in this year's crop of Edinburgh shows. You're seeing quite a few comedians doing shows based around masculinity and consent-focused sexual politics, which I think are the vanguard chasing the upcoming new zeitgeist.

For people seeing it this year, I mean that more in the sense that the Netflix edition will mop up 'the rest'. As in the folks who weren't able to see it during the limited previous runs.

CaledonianGonzo

Will definitely be interesting to see the impact (if any) it this year's Fringe.

If it makes any difference (which it might not), Nanette also won the Barry Award and this year they gave it to an absurdist show.

The repercussions might not be immediate though.  Dr Brown won 6 years ago now and even with Zoe Coombs-Marr thoroughly ripping the piss out of Gauliere style clowning there's still a lot of it about.

As an aside, I finally saw The Darkness of Robins a few months back and it's pretty good.......but by no means the equal of Nanette.

At any rate I'm looking forward to seeing it again. Last August when I saw it I'd been drinking since lunchtime and it absolutely floored me - and I wasn't alone.

Theremin

#5
Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on June 23, 2018, 01:17:45 PM
As an aside, I finally saw The Darkness of Robins a few months back and it's pretty good.......but by no means the equal of Nanette.

It's a ridiculous thing to be annoyed about, but having seen them both at the 2017 Fringe I'm still cheesed off that they split the prize.

I quite like Robins, but they're very different classes of show.

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on June 23, 2018, 01:17:45 PM
The repercussions might not be immediate though.  Dr Brown won 6 years ago now and even with Zoe Coombs-Marr thoroughly ripping the piss out of Gauliere style clowning there's still a lot of it about.

True. And my god there's a lot of clowning crossover acts this year.

I might disagree a bit though that Coombs-Marr really demolished Gauliere Clowning, though. I think she deconstructed it, and used it as a tool - but otherwise (judging by interviews) is still a big fan of the movement.

You're definitely right that the genre is ripe for a pisstake at the moment, though.

As a chip-on-the-shoulder council estate type who has accidentally got a career in the arts, I've spent the past few years despairingly furious at all the well-heeled performers I know dropping several grand (some in in the tens of thousands!) on clowning courses, and effectively buying themselves into the zeitgeist.

Especially infuriating, as the most interesting new clown performer (in my opnion) Jordan Brookes has no formal training at all.

Urinal Cake

I caught this on Netflix and it lives up to the hype. I'm glad there's a comedian who publicly acknowledges that seperating the art from the artist is bullshit.

brat-sampson

Wow, thanks for the recommendation. I don't really keep on top of Standup, let alone what shows are on Netflix, but this tore chunks out of me yesterday afternoon. Smart, funny, and sadly necessary.

Mass_Panic

I'm surprised that Hannah Gadsby has a critically acclaimed show. I saw some of her early stuff years ago, and wrote her off as a comedian I wasn't remotely interested in. I've never really given her another chance, but the themes of this do sound genuinely interesting so I will give it a go.

Sin Agog

That was quite something.  I will say her view that comedy only comes from tension seems pretty dogmatic, but she's clearly done a ton of introspecting and evidently that's where her[/] comedy comes from- crystallizing a painful moment and living in that pain for as long as she keeps on doing comedy.  With other comedians, it's often therapy and catharsis.  Without comedy they'd be fucked.  Wonder if it gave her some form of therapy, too, and if she'll come back to it in a more conversational late-period Shandling way?  Audiences are more up for rawness and honesty than some people givem credit for. Anyway ta for the thread, as I'm not always as engaged as I used to be by stand-up specials unless I'm there in person, but this kept me riveted and wrenched throughout.

garbed_attic

Very clever and super engaging

It succeeded in making me feel really fucking awful... which I think was part of the intent... so it worked

Moribunderast

Quote from: Mass_Panic on June 25, 2018, 09:33:14 AM
I'm surprised that Hannah Gadsby has a critically acclaimed show. I saw some of her early stuff years ago, and wrote her off as a comedian I wasn't remotely interested in. I've never really given her another chance, but the themes of this do sound genuinely interesting so I will give it a go.

Likewise, I hadn't really been a fan of previous stuff I'd seen (admittedly, years ago) but this show is phenomenal. Brilliantly constructed and just searing and taking the medium to rare heights at the end. I don't really know what to say about it - probably need more time to process the thing and maybe even rewatch. It's quite an achievement though and I'm glad it's garnered acclaim.

CaledonianGonzo

This show is definitely a step up, but I've enjoyed what I've seen of her previous work, particularly the show about body image and her art shows.

I guess if her very early work was a bit unremarkable then Nanette gives that a bit of context....maybe even a pay off that's been years in the making.

Quisby

I recently watched her 2009 show Kiss Me Quick I'm Full Of Jubes and its interesting to watch in the light of Nanette - she tells some of the same stories she tells in Nanette but in a lighter, sanitized way that hides the anger and the sadness that she's dealing with.

Quisby

#14
Ignore - should have put in the Fringe thread.

mojo filters

Definitely the best sad tragicomedy stand up set I've seen, though I did like Mark Thomas show about his Dad from a few years ago.

Watched it solely based on recommendations here. I admit it took a few goes to get right through the generic first half, thinking I'd misread the posts.

Whilst I appreciate she needs to do some of that material for the payoffs, there was also some bland lesbian comedy that sounded familiar - unless I'm just missing the point here.

However the second half was riveting! She masterfully wove the various threads in and around each other, teasing about the greater substance to come.

The finale was slaying, really choked me up (and a straight white man at that). I completely agree this blurs the performance boundaries between standup and theatre, which in hindsight raises a slight question about the conclusion.

Looking back I can forgive the slow start. However I suspect others might watch 30 mins and just think "oh well, obviously not for me". Those folks are really missing out!

I can see other comics watching this and wanting to up their own game, but if they haven't watched Stewart Lee and already thought the same - I don't see how this deeply personal work is going to directly influence them?

We don't want any more of those Russell comics they have these days, doing a cry baby comedy show about sexuality or dead relatives.

I haven't looked at any of her previous work, but I'm assuming it's a far lighter touch on the same subjects, and probably not quite as special?

Sin Agog

I don't think the first half was bad at all; it only feels blander because you spend the whole of it waiting for something real to happen.  I'm not sure what would be the best way to introduce this to someone.  Maybe tell them it's a bit like Zelda: Link's Awakening, with the first half set in the cheery daytime world, and the second half inverting everything into shadows and darkness.

mojo filters

I guess it's not bad per se, it just is not the kind of comedy I'd normally bother with. If that was her regular act, I'd dismiss it as hack efforts at hackneyed subject material.

Absolutely right that I knew too much in advance, so my expectations were heightened. I can only imagine the effect she could have on a regular audience, with regular standup expectations - but I guess that's where the boundaries between comedy and theatre begin to blur?

I was going to recommend this to a friend, but paused because I wanted them to get the best experience. I'm amazed I've not read about this anywhere else, and it's just hidden away on the interwebs!

CaledonianGonzo

Finally watched this.  For folk who saw it live last year, my memory is it that it ended on a slightly different, maybe less upbeat moment.

I noticed other changes, which is to be expected as a show evolved, but this slighty tweaked the vibe the show finishes on.  False memory?

Watched this yesterday without knowing anything about it at all and was massively blown away. Definitely blurs the lines between stand-up and theatre, as someone upthread said. Impeccably crafted, it shouldn't really work but it does

Mass_Panic

Finally got round to watching it. I didn't laugh once, but it was absolutely worth my time. Amazing set, very powerful. Felt more like a TED talk than a comedy but that's not really a criticism - all the threads came together really well and just worked. Glad I gave her a second chance.

Hank Venture

#21
Ten minutes in, haven't laughed yet. I'm mostly afraid of the mechanism that runs her facial mimicry to fail, it's very robotic and uncanny valley.

It's very https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zkV5l3yBA3U to me. I don't get it.

Edit: I'm not even trying to be contrarian for the sake of it. She just says completely normal sentences and the crowd goes completely insane. I feel bad saying it, but this is awful. It's very brave and all that, but I prefer to laugh, or atleast go «ah, that's a good joke.»

I guess my main issue is being left without a clear understanding of what her sexual preference is.

Edit 2: First decent joke at 24 mins in.

Hank Venture

Done now. Would be very good as a Ted Talk or motivational speech, not so much stand up. Stand up is primarily about getting laughs as I see it, rather than making Important Points or being A Brave Voice. Not for me.

Crabwalk

It is an unusual sensation, to be welling up watching a stand-up special. But I laughed plenty throughout too - there are lots of good gags in there.

But having the artifice and functionality of the jokes peeled away to reveal the raw experiences and emotions behind them was sensational, uncomfortable and pretty devastating. It's a scintillating show and I'm sorry I missed it live.

up_the_hampipe

With all the acclaim, I feel I should watch this but a lot of what's being written about it is making me recoil https://www.salon.com/2018/07/02/hannah-gadsbys-nanette-the-stand-up-special-that-made-louis-c-k-s-comedy-irrelevant/

Blumf

What, exactly, is new here? It's not really funny enough to claim to be stand-up, and thus it just filters into the wider cultural scope of people talking about their experience being gay/female.

I'm not saying it's bad, but it's getting far more praise than I think is worthy.

hummingofevil

If I may be so bold I would recommend people watch this twice if you looking for laughs.

On second watch I found myself giggling a lot more at the first half. There are plenty of jokes in there that I think I missed the first time round as was focusing too much on where the twist comes in. Moreover, she's not the funniest stand up comedian ever but if you roll with her flow there is so much to laugh at. I love her intonation and for me there is something there in how she has quite a folksy (any Australians on here who know better wanna comment?) accent and delivery that contrasts nicely with the content of her material. "My peeohple" in particular tickled me. Its equivalent to someone with a West Country accent playing with the misconceptions of a liberal London audience (something Bridget Christie has done well in the past).

I was lucky enough to see Richard Gadd's Monkey Do show twice and had exactly the same response. Second time round I appreciated way more how funny it was.

Hank Venture

Quote from: up_the_hampipe on July 03, 2018, 09:11:04 PM
With all the acclaim, I feel I should watch this but a lot of what's being written about it is making me recoil https://www.salon.com/2018/07/02/hannah-gadsbys-nanette-the-stand-up-special-that-made-louis-c-k-s-comedy-irrelevant/
«("Nanette" just ended a run in New York City, and is part of this month's Montreal Just for Laughs Festival.)»

«Honey, want to go to see a show this weekend? We'll take little Billy to the Just for Laughs festival, what could go wrong, eh? It's called Just For Laughs, for Pete's sake!»

CaledonianGonzo

Quote from: Blumf on July 03, 2018, 09:28:09 PM
What, exactly, is new here?

I dunno about 'new', bit I think the way it uses tension is formally pretty bold and I admire the way it uses the techniques of comedy to discuss the limits of comedy.

Not your point, but I also think the view is that stand up is solely about getting laughs is fairly reductive.  That's what it's mostly about, which what makes a show that abandons all pretense of it but is still using comedic techniques pretty unusual.

As I alluded to above, I think the version that played the Fringe last year went a bit further in its use of unresolved tension and played a smaller room, so was more impactful in the flesh when you could see the whites of her eyes.  The director of the Netflix special tries to get around that by tightening the focus, but there are still points where the crowd in the room dissipate the atmosphere that's building on stage.

bobloblaw

Quote from: hummingofevil on July 04, 2018, 12:21:20 AM
If I may be so bold I would recommend people watch this twice if you looking for laughs.

On second watch I found myself giggling a lot more at the first half. There are plenty of jokes in there that I think I missed the first time round as was focusing too much on where the twist comes in. Moreover, she's not the funniest stand up comedian ever but if you roll with her flow there is so much to laugh at. I love her intonation and for me there is something there in how she has quite a folksy (any Australians on here who know better wanna comment?) accent and delivery that contrasts nicely with the content of her material. "My peeohple" in particular tickled me. Its equivalent to someone with a West Country accent playing with the misconceptions of a liberal London audience (something Bridget Christie has done well in the past).

I was lucky enough to see Richard Gadd's Monkey Do show twice and had exactly the same response. Second time round I appreciated way more how funny it was.

Without knowing all that much about them, I did a double-bill of Nanette/Monkey Do at Edinburgh last year. Intense but amazing evening