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Where do I start with King Crimson?

Started by Monsieur Verdoux, June 26, 2018, 03:21:49 PM

Previous topic - Next topic
I've heard nothing, everything I've read about them makes them sound really interesting, where do I begin?

Also feel free to use this opportunity to talk about the band/Fripp in general

famethrowa

Well listen to this first. Their first song from the first album, a crazy mix of heavy riffs, sax, jazz and sheer noise, it's fantastic

21st Century Schizoid Man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXZc0ptqFxw


For more analysis, I think there's 3 Crimsons.

The first version, late 60's, kind of like the Moody Blues gone mental. Lots of Mellotron strings, Greg Lake, and also jazzy riffery.

Court of the Crimson King: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvCmtHDDuu0


Second version, early mid 70's, proto metal & fusion 3 piece band

Red: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_pDwv3tpug


Third version, early 80's, kind of like Talking Heads gone mental, funky and spiky

Elephant Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKIoEr2ZXD8

Like The Fall, the line-up is in a constant state of flux. The musical styles change just as much and it may seem that the presence of Robert Fripp is the only thing that makes it "King Crimson". He refutes this though.

Lordofthefiles

Do you like Nirvana?
In Utero was designed to sound like King Crimson's album "Red".
Start there, you have an in.

Here's the title track:

https://youtu.be/X_pDwv3tpug



If you don't like Nirvana/In Utero, well...

Johnny Yesno

#4
The bin.

Seriously though, of all the KC stuff I've heard, only the songs 25th Century Schizoid Man and Larks' Tongues in Aspic part 1 have made any impression on me. The rest is gash.

Edit: Fucking hell. What was I doing with those apostrophes? Been reading too much councillor Philip Winter, it seems

Funcrusher

Quote from: Lordofthefiles on June 26, 2018, 10:14:57 PM
Do you like Nirvana?
In Utero was designed to sound like King Crimson's album "Red".
Start there, you have an in.

Here's the title track:

https://youtu.be/X_pDwv3tpug



If you don't like Nirvana/In Utero, well...

Owing more than a little to John McLaughlin and Lifetime in that clip.


thugler

Really like quite a bit of their music, but they mostly seem to have quite naff singers. The instrumental sections are utterly amazing though.

Absorb the anus burn

Start with Red... If you like it, move backwards to the 60s then forwards to the 80s.

Quote from: famethrowa on June 26, 2018, 03:46:28 PM
Well listen to this first. Their first song from the first album, a crazy mix of heavy riffs, sax, jazz and sheer noise, it's fantastic

21st Century Schizoid Man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXZc0ptqFxw

WHOA that's fucking awesome

Quote from: famethrowa on June 26, 2018, 03:46:28 PM
For more analysis, I think there's 3 Crimsons.

The first version, late 60's, kind of like the Moody Blues gone mental. Lots of Mellotron strings, Greg Lake, and also jazzy riffery.

Court of the Crimson King: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvCmtHDDuu0

This is really beautiful music!

Quote from: famethrowa on June 26, 2018, 03:46:28 PM
Second version, early mid 70's, proto metal & fusion 3 piece band

Red: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_pDwv3tpug

This one kind of goes on a bit

Quote from: famethrowa on June 26, 2018, 03:46:28 PM
Third version, early 80's, kind of like Talking Heads gone mental, funky and spiky

Elephant Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKIoEr2ZXD8

Wow! I like this. Obviously very Heads-derivative but with a bit more threat behind it


Funcrusher


shh


itsfredtitmus

get their mellower stuff on like i talk to the wind and epitaph

Pranet

Love this video of them doing Larks' Tongues in Aspic on German telly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhudDa3JAyc

dallasman

Quote from: itsfredtitmus on June 27, 2018, 06:40:10 PM
get their mellower stuff on like i talk to the wind and epitaph

Adrian Belew also wrote a mean ballad when he put his mind to it. To wit; "Matte Kudasai", live in Frejus 1982:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USXEi5dJPto

That whole gig is a great primer for the 80s era, and the "Waiting Man" intro is a badass way to open the show.
Anyone who enjoys both 70s and 80s Crimson should find much to enjoy on the later albums too. Here's another slowie, "One Time", live in Japan 2003:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj7yLcvFdBI

dallasman

Quote from: dallasman on June 27, 2018, 08:00:00 PM
Frejus 1982

The only act with a greater opening number that year were Roxy Music, whose "Main Thing" throbs like a giant velvety cock. Bryan Ferry of course auditioned for King Crimson before forming Roxy.

Brundle-Fly

Quote from: Monsieur Verdoux on June 27, 2018, 12:04:26 PM
Hearing these has made me very confused!

Ha ha! Come on, MV, embrace the cheerful insanity of Giles, Giles & Fripp!!

Cold Meat Platter

Quote from: famethrowa on June 26, 2018, 03:46:28 PM

Second version, early mid 70's, proto metal & fusion 3 piece band

Red: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_pDwv3tpug

Really seeing where Voivod got a lot of their late 80s/early 90s sound from in this.

Howj Begg

I always found Starless and Bible Black to be the best one tbh.

Red, while having some great guitar kraaang going on, is so damn po-faced in the vocals and lyrics that it makes me laugh.


dallasman

Quote from: Howj Begg on June 27, 2018, 09:41:39 PM
I always found Starless and Bible Black to be the best one tbh.

Red, while having some great guitar kraaang going on, is so damn po-faced in the vocals and lyrics that it makes me laugh.

I tend to agree, but for slightly different reasons. SABB being my first KC album is one; all the hype over Red another. The latter is leaner and more streamlined, but I never cared as much for the improvs on Red as the ones on SABB. "Providence" never did much for me, and I also think the extended instrumental on "Starless" would benefit from a little trimming. "Fallen Angel" is the one that comes to mind when you say "po-faced". On SABB, all the vocal tracks are striking and vivid, and the improvs go to interesting places, with the added benefit of The Other David Cross on fiddle. "Trio" is magical. And then there's "Fracture", which is just a total fucking monolith of progressive rock.

Shit Good Nose

#22
One of my favourite bands.  Seeing them in October.  Can't wait.


No one has mentioned the 90s double trio (Bill Bruford's last time with the band), and the more recent 7/8 man line-up (with three drummers).  Both worthy - here's Vroom live in 1994 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLHLQpJZsGo, and Vroom Vroom a year later https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEVqBKwOaRk

I think my absolute favourite version of the band, though, is the short-lived Larks line-up with Jamie Muir moving into the four-man group, which tends to be considered by most as the best version of the band.  If you can track it down, I heartily recommend the live recording of their Mainz show in 1974, an absolutely blinding performance - probably one of the best in the band's entire history - and Starless is jaw-droppingly good. 


Quote from: dallasman on June 27, 2018, 08:05:12 PM
The only act with a greater opening number that year were Roxy Music, whose "Main Thing" throbs like a giant velvety cock. Bryan Ferry of course auditioned for King Crimson before forming Roxy.

And that Frejus show KC were opening for Roxy (the Roxy show was also filmed).


And here's the 7 man line-up doing Schizoid man a few years ago - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3028oDEKZo4

dallasman

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on June 27, 2018, 10:41:58 PM
And that Frejus show KC were opening for Roxy (the Roxy show was also filmed).

It sure was. The swaying girls at the start are a big part of the "throb". There's Police and XTC footage from this festival too (found on "Police Around The World" and Urgh! A Music War" respectively, if memory serves).

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on June 27, 2018, 10:41:58 PM
And here's the 7 man line-up doing Schizoid man a few years ago - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3028oDEKZo4

I'm seeing them in two weeks (although there may be nine or ten of them by now).

BlodwynPig

Quote from: Absorb the anus burn on June 27, 2018, 12:21:21 AM
Start with Red... If you like it, move backwards to the 60s then forwards to the 80s.

Yes, Red and Larks' for me, although I arrived chronologically to these later on after starting with the first two.

a duncandisorderly

this is what crimson could've been if ferry had joined.
note that wetton & jobson later joined up with bill bruford (himself also high & dry after robert fripp called it quits on the mk3 crimson) to form UK (mk1)
but this rhythm section... bruford never had a rapport like this with any bass player, not even squire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld6eeT_WzQc

my favourite fripp material is on his 'exposure' album. wetton was supposed to be on it- I've heard demos, & tony levin channels him frequently. phil collins is excellent, as ever, behind the kit. the version of gabriel's 'flood', stripped of the ezrin syrup, is bleak & perfect. 31'15 or so, but listen to the whole album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZA3qLXj8bA&t=2081s

that's not to say I don't enjoy a bit of crimson, but there's no finished article, I find- the line-up kept changing before they ever had time to develop. wetton especially must've found this frustrating, as he was plainly going to be a front-man whether anyone wanted it or not. there's footage somewhere from his brief spell in roxy music where the tv director or sound-man has misread something & put him alongside ferry, at the front, as if they're both the singer. it's quite funny. much as I like 'thrak', it's not got the sheer "wtf?" of the first album, or the raw power of the muir quartet & the subsequent trio. (yeah, I know, five & four, but poor david cross was barely audible & quit rather than struggle with the mellotron)

oh, & there's this, with its bonkers keith tippett (get well soon, sir!) interlude. greg lake- what a voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmRbSFvh_90


BlodwynPig

Quote from: a duncandisorderly on June 28, 2018, 04:11:54 AM
this is what crimson could've been if ferry had joined.
note that wetton & jobson later joined up with bill bruford (himself also high & dry after robert fripp called it quits on the mk3 crimson) to form UK (mk1)
but this rhythm section... bruford never had a rapport like this with any bass player, not even squire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld6eeT_WzQc

my favourite fripp material is on his 'exposure' album. wetton was supposed to be on it- I've heard demos, & tony levin channels him frequently. phil collins is excellent, as ever, behind the kit. the version of gabriel's 'flood', stripped of the ezrin syrup, is bleak & perfect. 31'15 or so, but listen to the whole album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZA3qLXj8bA&t=2081s

that's not to say I don't enjoy a bit of crimson, but there's no finished article, I find- the line-up kept changing before they ever had time to develop. wetton especially must've found this frustrating, as he was plainly going to be a front-man whether anyone wanted it or not. there's footage somewhere from his brief spell in roxy music where the tv director or sound-man has misread something & put him alongside ferry, at the front, as if they're both the singer. it's quite funny. much as I like 'thrak', it's not got the sheer "wtf?" of the first album, or the raw power of the muir quartet & the subsequent trio. (yeah, I know, five & four, but poor david cross was barely audible & quit rather than struggle with the mellotron)

oh, & there's this, with its bonkers keith tippett (get well soon, sir!) interlude. greg lake- what a voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmRbSFvh_90

why have I not got the Exposure album. Blimey. I know Water Music of course from the Virgin Ambient Series but never paid much attention to solo/collab works apart from the phenomenal FSOL collaboration from early 90s.

a duncandisorderly


a duncandisorderly

Quote from: BlodwynPig on June 28, 2018, 04:30:52 AM
why have I not got the Exposure album. Blimey. I know Water Music of course from the Virgin Ambient Series but never paid much attention to solo/collab works apart from the phenomenal FSOL collaboration from early 90s.

get y'rself an original vinyl version. he tinkered with the mix &c for the CD.