Hole are fucking brilliant

[Carpool Dragon]

I just started listening to Hole this week (specifically Live Through This and Celebrity Skin) and wow, this shit is terrific. Despite being a massive fan of grunge/90s alt-rock, I've avoided them in the past due to some residual adolescent hatred of Courtney, but man I was missing out. Celebrity Skin in particular might be one of my favourite albums ever, it's wall-to-wall choons, and heaven for someone who likes strange but catchy riffs (Northern fucking Star!). The Boys on the Radio is crap, but one dud is allowed on a great record.

Going to move onto the last album (and Courtney's solo record) but I'm not optimistic it'll match the magic of the other ones. Why did she have to be an actress? (And fall out with all the musically talented people in her life). Why is there not enough discussion of Hole being up there with the greats in terms of this era of rock? Kurt conspiracies? Misogyny? Eric Erlandssons weird head creeping people out? We may never know.

[sevendaughters]

in terms of the big and famous commercial guitar groups of this era I'd put Hole comfortably ahead of the big-hitting dross merchants like STP, Smashing Pumpkins, and Filter, better than L7 and Babes in Toyland, alongside pop rockers like Sloan and Everclear, alongside the tuneful girly contemporaries like Veruca Salt and Liz Phair, and behind Nirvana, the Lemonheads, early Weezer. when you start to include indie contemporaries that never hit as big - like Sleater-Kinney and the Breeders - then Hole start to fall right down the list for me.

[Carpool Dragon]

in terms of the big and famous commercial guitar groups of this era I'd put Hole comfortably ahead of the big-hitting dross merchants like STP, Smashing Pumpkins, and Filter, better than L7 and Babes in Toyland, alongside pop rockers like Sloan and Everclear, alongside the tuneful girly contemporaries like Veruca Salt and Liz Phair, and behind Nirvana, the Lemonheads, early Weezer. when you start to include indie contemporaries that never hit as big - like Sleater-Kinney and the Breeders - then Hole start to fall right down the list for me.

Never listened to either Sleater-Kinney (cos your one annoyed me in Portlandia) or the Breeders (cos I don't rate the Pixies) but I'll have to go back and give them a try, cheers.

[Dr Rock]

in terms of the big and famous commercial guitar groups of this era I'd put Hole comfortably ahead of the big-hitting dross merchants like STP, Smashing Pumpkins, and Filter, better than L7 and Babes in Toyland, alongside pop rockers like Sloan and Everclear, alongside the tuneful girly contemporaries like Veruca Salt and Liz Phair, and behind Nirvana, the Lemonheads, early Weezer. when you start to include indie contemporaries that never hit as big - like Sleater-Kinney and the Breeders - then Hole start to fall right down the list for me.

I agree with this post. Though of all the bands, Nirvana apart, none have an opening lyric to rival 'When I was a teenage whore...'

[Sebastian Cobb]

in terms of the big and famous commercial guitar groups of this era I'd put Hole comfortably ahead of the big-hitting dross merchants like STP, Smashing Pumpkins, and Filter, better than L7 and Babes in Toyland, alongside pop rockers like Sloan and Everclear, alongside the tuneful girly contemporaries like Veruca Salt and Liz Phair, and behind Nirvana, the Lemonheads, early Weezer. when you start to include indie contemporaries that never hit as big - like Sleater-Kinney and the Breeders - then Hole start to fall right down the list for me.

I'd put you in front of a bus for what you just said about SP.

[DukeDeMondo]

Pitchfork published a really good and fairly in-depth review of Live Through This a few weeks ago. I saw Nagsworth talking about it somewhere or other. It's well worth a read.

I only know the first three albums, really. I never got on particularly well with Pretty On The Inside, the aforementioned "Teenage Whore" aside (what a fucking statement of intent, like), but then I never tried very hard with very much of it either. I heard Live Through This first and I think I just wanted more of that, a bunch more "Violet" or whatever, but that's not really what POTI was interested in delivering. Least not as I remember it. Stuff like "Clouds" just bored me to tears. I'd probably get a lot more out of it now. Shoegazey shouty sort of narration I remember it kicking up. I think it'd appeal.

But, Live Through This I adored. Band I was in at school used to cover "Plump" pretty regularly. "Teenage Whore" maybe too, come to think. Fantastic craic for us. Not so much for anyone else.

Celebrity Skin I think I enjoyed but I don't remember a great deal about it beyond the singles. Their MTV Unplugged was decent an' all.

That is what I have to say about Hole are fucking brilliant.

[Gregory Torso]

Dickless > Calamity Jane > Babes In Toyland > Hole >>>>> L7

[Rainbow Moses]

I subconsciously avoided listening to them for years. Mostly a similar petty hangover from hating Courtney Love, but I did give them some time the other day on account of this thread and, boy, I didn't regret it. Lots of angry, fiery knockouts. The 'soft verse, bullish chorus' scheme they took from Cobain works brilliantly, particularly on Live Through This.

Favourites so far: "Plump", "Celebrity Skin", "Asking for It" and "Northern Star". I haven't got round to Pretty on the Inside and Nobody's Daughter yet, as I'm not feeling so optimistic about those and I'm always tentative about breaking whatever spell I'm cast under. I suppose I'll have to stop being such a wallflower eventually. Has anyone listened to American Sweetheart?

[Rainbow Moses]

Not quite sure how "Violet" passed me by. It's exactly the sort of thing I like. Wow!

[a duncandisorderly]

I can't make up my mind about courtney, but her band rocked, & she roared like she fucking meant it, & this is always a good thing.

[the ouch cube]

'Pretty On The Inside' sounds fucking savage even now.

[QDRPHNC]

in terms of the big and famous commercial guitar groups of this era I'd put Hole comfortably ahead of the big-hitting dross merchants like STP, Smashing Pumpkins, and Filter

Oh come off. You're really putting Smashing Pumpkins on the same level as Filter? STP I don't even like and I would consider even them a few notches ahead of Filter.

[DukeDeMondo]

STP I don't even like and I would consider even them a few notches ahead of Filter.

Tiny Music... by STP is better than any Smashing Pumpkins record, far as I'm concerned. Better than any Filter record too, like.

[Sebastian Cobb]

The only good thing filter did was take a picture. That's shit as well but Hybrid did a fantastic remix.

[Twed]

I don't know much about most of the bands mentioned here, but I do know that Babes In Toyland - Ripe is an absolute force.

Have to say that The Breeders are definitely more my thing, though. Last Splash is a top ten album, for me.

[a duncandisorderly]

I liked STP, & particularly weiland's voice. they came to Mtv in camden in 1993, & it was my job to do the sound that night.

I was the studio tech manager, & would replace whichever crew member had the day off, so... vision-mixing, sound, autocue (once, memorably for henry rollins).

the band hadn't been told that they'd need to do a sort of 'unplugged' performance, because the studio was tiny, so they were somewhat on the back foot & had to reprise their acoustic version first arranged for Mtv in the states. I did what I could with five mics.

later, we all went to the monarch to see 'salad', marijne van der vlugt's band, away from her day-job at Mtv, & we got absolutely trashed. so yeah, STP.

https://soundcloud.com/duncandisorderly-1/plush-most-wanted-april-1993

[Dr Rock]

Live Through This is like a bonus Nirvana album, cos the song structures are often so similar. Not that I'm suggesting that Kurt helped a *lot* because that would be sexist.

[QDRPHNC]

Tiny Music... by STP is better than any Smashing Pumpkins record, far as I'm concerned. Better than any Filter record too, like.

I'm sure there's a good debate around SP vs. STP.

Next to either of them, Filter seems like a nonentity, so I was more struck by the comparison.

[a duncandisorderly]

I'm sure there's a good debate around SP vs. STP.

the pumpkins came to Mtv in 1993 too, but after we'd moved into the old TVam building, so we had a bigger studio. in fact, theirs was one of the first performances done in the new bigger space.
I got talking to the crew, & they were fond of pranking "cheerful billy" because they hated him so much.

I dunno- they had some great songs, but I could never get past his voice. ideally, scott weiland would've hooked up with james, jimmy & d'arcy, & stolen them to be his band. too late now.

blimey, this takes me back...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rafSBupVdD8

[sevendaughters]

Oh come off. You're really putting Smashing Pumpkins on the same level as Filter? STP I don't even like and I would consider even them a few notches ahead of Filter.

in terms of quality and era, yes. if it helps then switch Filter out with Bush or Spacehog or something.