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Ikaruga

Started by The Boston Crab, July 03, 2018, 08:03:04 AM

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Dai Ou Jou is probably still the best game I've played this year. It knocked me for six. I only really started getting into shmups about six months ago and that was like the first time I saw a nude lady. Terrifying but exhilarating and somehow plugged me into something beyond the world as I knew it. I'm going to have to pop down to Arcade Club to get a fix. Oh shit, they've got Ikaruga, too. I'm going to be an absolute fanny magnet!

Kelvin

Congrats, man. Just watched both your A++ and S performances. What was so interesting was the obvious jump in confidence and muscle memory, between your failed, but impressive attempt at level 2, and your A++ and then S performances of level 1. I luckily watched the A++ attempt first, and so had the pleasure of seeing you do a really good attempt that genuinely impressed me, followed by the S rank attempt, where you were simply always in the exact right place for everything, and just zipping from one placement to the next on instinct. Even though the first attempt was very impressive, the jump in performance was really noticeable.

The colour mechanic also definitely helps make it compelling to watch high score runs, because you're actively avoiding killing ships of one colour until it's the right time, meaning you see moments like the 'trains' in level 1, where you were weaving between the small enemies to hit the other colour, and then chipping off a few more as you moved between the bigger vehicles.

Even your attempt at level 2 impressed me, despite the very obvious fact that you didn't know the positioning or placements anywhere near as well. The bit with the fans of lasers, and you just sliding and flipping back and forth between them was doubly impressive to see, as someone whose tried and failed at that section many, many times now.

Really enjoyed it. Wish the other folks here could see it in action, too.

Thanks, mate. That's very kind. I just topped my high score, in fact, and although the chain is the same (95), it's a tighter, faster run. You'll also see that my conservatism at the very end with the bonus waves probably cost me another three chains, so still plenty of room for improvement.

It's a strange feeling because I've been playing it in my mind so much this past week, in particular, and almost every day I've woken up and improved my score either first or second go, like your brain needs a bit of time and rest to lock it in and tighten up.

I have to be honest, I've barely touched stage two at all, so any good bits there were largely flukey. I've tended to kill myself straight away and start again! My recent chapter one top score ended up being overall top score, too, as I did attempt to get some chains going, albeit quite unsuccessfully. I can sort of see the potential of the level, though. It's that first section which is the most impenetrable. Once you're past that, I think there's a massive chain to be had without excessive dexterity.

Kelvin

Out of interest  have you actually completed the game yet? Either by upping the lives and continues, or entering free play mode? It's interesting that you seem to have poured so much time and passion into that one, brilliantly crafted first stage. I can't get past stage four, even with max continues and lives. I just stick it on freeplay now, but I still enjoy the rhythm of it all.

I've not even got past the second level boss.

It is weird, I suppose. There was no grand plan to nail one level at a time but I suppose that is what I'll do, if I even stick with it. I guess I it's so impenetrable at first that I enjoyed the feeling of progress, whereas if I'd always played to complete it, I'd possibly not feel the same gains so in a roundabout way, it's probably more satisfying like this. For me, anyway. I've hit 3m half a dozen times now and once you've got it, it's just muscle memory, so I am ready to start working on chapter two now. I should probably attempt to see the later stages though. I heard chapter four is a massive spike so I'm interested to see where it goes!

Kelvin

Your 74th in the world now. Fair fucks to you.

Hecate

#36
There's a Japanese term in shmupworld "Ichimen Bancho", it refers to someone who is great at the easy first stages of games but crap at the rest.

You'd better get on with level 2.

Haha. I like that.

You'd better get on with level 1.

greenman

Must admit I never really got to focusing on scoring rather than surviving past level 3 and it was only level 1 I ever pulled off anything that slick.

Hecate

Quote from: The Boston Crab on July 15, 2018, 07:10:46 PMYou'd better get on with level 1.

Hehe. No chance, Bought it on the gamecube, hated it. Thought "everybody else can't be wrong, it must just be me", rebought it on xbox live, hated it.
Then because I loved exceed 3rd so much, some prick on reddit convinced me to try exceed 2nd "Oh, but it has that ikaruga colour switching mechanic, my brain can't cope, I won't like it"
"Give it a go, trust me"
Bought it, hated it.

I very, very nearly bought ikaruga on steam when they had the score competition last month but I stayed strong.

Kelvin

Quote from: greenman on July 15, 2018, 07:15:22 PM
Must admit I never really got to focusing on scoring rather than surviving past level 3 and it was only level 1 I ever pulled off anything that slick.

I played through the game again today in free play mode, inspired by The Boston Crab's performances. The difficulty spike at the boss of stage 3 is insane , although I did notice I actually lost significantly less lives and continues this time through.

The more you play, you really do start to realise it's less about dodging bullets, and more about moving within and around waves of bullets that just flow back and forth like a sprinkler system. Good luck with the main boss of stage 5, though. I literally lose about 10 continues (not lives) on her every time. You have to keep swapping between the colours ever 1-2 seconds, while absorbing lock on shots, and then firing them back, again every 1-2 seconds. Bosto's going to have an embolism.

Bhazor

One of the very best shmups I've ever played. Never made it through the third level.

Quote from: Hecate on July 15, 2018, 06:40:50 PM
There's a Japanese term in shmupworld "Ichimen Bancho", it refers to someone who is great at the easy first stages of games but crap at the rest.

You'd better get on with level 2.

I was so entertained by the idea of ichimen bancho that I looked up the etymology and cultural context. Absolutely fantastic.

For anyone who's interested, 'bancho' is literally the leader of a group of delinquents. This meaning became somewhat subverted to mean someone with strong character and leadership qualities, resistant to authority and convention. This then became subverted to refer ironically to a fuckin big head, basically.

Ichimen literally means 'one face' or 'one aspect', but can also refer to say the front page of a newspaper, and by extension, the superficial aspect of a thing.

The equivalent cricketing term would probably be 'flat track bully', but that doesn't have near the same ironic weight. What a superb expression.


Kelvin

Plus, you have a great username, for next time you come back from a flounce :)


Sheffield Wednesday

Eighteen months on, I had an urge to go back to Ikaruga after subsequently falling down the shmup rabbit hole and I wondered whether my newfound understanding of the genre would help me improve my score and rank. I decided after my obsessive pursuit of S Rank on chapter one back in the day, I would aim for S++ Rank which is the maximum. First time round it nearly killed me and it certainly killed my enthusiasm for the game. This time, it was much much worse.

Playing Cave bullet hell doesn't help in any way with this game, so it was effectively back to square one. It's one of the hardest things I've ever done from a psychological perspective, I gave up so many times and uninstalled it only to wake up at 6 and reinstall for a few more runs before work, I almost grew to hate it, but now I've done it, I absolutely adore the game and I regularly dip back in without any pressure and I'm really enjoying trying to optimise it further. One day, I'll go for 4 million points but for now, I'm just delighted to hit S++ Rank.

That section near the end of the stage where I shoot between the ships to keep the chain going is the biggest hurdle I've ever got over in any game. After knowing about the strategy for almost two years, it was only in the couple of days before I did it that I even understood what was actually happening. It's the most intimidating section of any game I've played and I absolutely bloody love it.

https://youtu.be/nOVyDvM4ip4

Bazooka

S++?  Nah I'm alright mate, I'll stick with the others.

When I first played this I was unaware of the Ying and yang system, I saw everything split into black and white, but thought nothing of it, and just kept blasting.  I'd love to play a version without it, because it's a cracking game, but no Raiden.

Have you played Caladrius Blaze?  Its really fun especially when their clothes fall off. I've been playing quite a few Neo Geo shmups on PS recently, In The Hunt is refreshing as it's a submarine, so you can fire torpedoes above you.


Sheffield Wednesday

Quote from: Bazooka on March 12, 2020, 01:15:30 AM
S++?  Nah I'm alright mate, I'll stick with the others.

When I first played this I was unaware of the Ying and yang system, I saw everything split into black and white, but thought nothing of it, and just kept blasting.  I'd love to play a version without it, because it's a cracking game, but no Raiden.

Have you played Caladrius Blaze?  Its really fun especially when their clothes fall off. I've been playing quite a few Neo Geo shmups on PS recently, In The Hunt is refreshing as it's a submarine, so you can fire torpedoes above you.

This is interesting because - dare I say - you basically haven't played Ikaruga as intended if you've not engaged with not only the polarity switching, but also the chaining. Once you start playing for chains/score, that's when the genius of the stage design and wave design come into play. That's where it becomes this mechanical marvel that is as much a rhythm game as it is a shooting game. I like Raiden Fighters Jet a lot on the 360 but they're very straightforward compared to Ikaruga, but then that's true of the vast majority of STGs. I have Caladrius Blaze on a few different formats and I do like the gameplay, it's by the Raiden folk, isn't it? I was a bit more prudish about the shame breaks way back when I first played it but if you play enough Japanese games, you become desensitised, I've found.

The stage one video above, I could have cleared most sections much more quickly by just sweeping left and right at the bottom of the screen but my score would have been about a quarter as much. It's all about managing those chains and by clearing waves as quickly as possible with chain intact, you spawn extra waves for extra chain and so on. I chained the entire stage there, 110 sets of threes, but that's not the maximum stage combo because at the last section with the big ships I could have been even more aggressive if I used missiles and I could have spawned more bonus rows at the very end. I think the max combo is nearer 130 at the absolute top level. I'm top 70 or so on PS4, probably top 60 had I not died right at the end, but still some distance off the top 20 who are on another level entirely. At least I now understand what the best players are doing, even if my ceiling is considerably lower.

I'd recommend giving it another go with chains in mind and you'll see how much deeper and more satisfying it is.

Dewt

What's the definitive version Shef? Switch?

Sheffield Wednesday

Any of the modern ports are equal, Switch, PS4, XB, Steam. I find the PS4 D-pad most responsive and comfortable so that's what I played on to get the above but I got S Rank first time round on Switch using the analogue stick so anything is legit if you get used to it. I'd say D-pad is much better and tighter and faster whatever you play on.

Bazooka

Quote from: Sheffield Wednesday on March 13, 2020, 01:56:03 AM
This is interesting because - dare I say - you basically haven't played Ikaruga as intended if you've not engaged with not only the polarity switching, but also the chaining. Once you start playing for chains/score, that's when the genius of the stage design and wave design come into play. That's where it becomes this mechanical marvel that is as much a rhythm game as it is a shooting game.

I wasn't clear, I meant to say I didn't play at first with the full mechanics as I was wasn't paying attention and just blasting, I have since then completed bit the right way. It's due another play through for sure.

greenman

I wonder how far you can actually get without changing polarity? the end of stage 2 would be very difficult but perhaps not impossible, those beams at the start of stage 3 would I'd guess be the barrier?