Bond villain strikes again, again?

[biggytitbo]

Yeah coincidences happen.

I'm not suggesting it's anything other than a coincidence, what else would it be? If it was broadcast in April then presumably filmed and written before the Skripal incident, so not inspired by it. Ditto if it was broadcast in April that's after the Skripal incident so the culprits werent inspired by the show. The only other conspiratial explanation would be that the UK security services inserted the plotline into the BBC show - predictive programming style, but I can't think of any reason why they would do this.

[The Culture Bunker]

Guess it all depends if the same plot device was used* in the original novel. If so, then ANOTHER LAYER TO THE ONION!

*though it probably wasn't.

[biggytitbo]

Bellingcat - the Atlantic Councils online Scooby Doo gang, say they have found one of the suspects passportz from 2003 and he was, at least then, a GRU officer, with a different name. Interesting if true, although does little to prove it was Putin who ordered it. Christopher steele was/is a an MI6 operative, but that doesn't mean Theresa May ordered the Trump dossier.


What confuses me is how this man went on national TV, indeed his face was on every news bulletin in the whole world for days on end, and nobody who knows the real him noticed.

[Alberon]

Probably didn't want to get caught up in the shitstorm. I'd keep my trap shut if I knew this guy and lived in Russia.

IF the story is true it just goes to show the Russian intelligence agency is as inept as ours. I suppose the Russians agency it isn't anywhere near as well funded as it was back in Soviet days.

[biggytitbo]

I can believe former GRU officers still bearing a grudge against Skripal might have done it - I still can't believe the current GRU, on the orders of Putin, put together this clown show, at the time they did and in the manner they did it. It makes no more sense now then it did then.


And of course a positive ID does nothing to clear up what actually happened, whether it was a poisoning or something else that went wrong. Or the whole door knob theory, were Skripal and his daughter are contaminated with the world's deadliest nerve agent, then go for a drive around Salisbury, feed the ducks, have a pint, go for a meal and then collapse simultaneously 3 hours later so neither can call for help. Or why both their phones were switched off. Or how they managed to not contaminate all the other people they came into contact with or came into contact with things they touched. Or Nick Bailey.


We might also ask why the massive resources of the Metropolitian police, who after 6 months of one of the biggest investigations in recent history, were unable to find out who this man was, but some bloke googled it on his laptop and found out in a few days.

[biggytitbo]

Apparently the inept Gavin Williamson tweeted about bellingcat's claims, then deleted the tweet. Make of that what you will.

[biggytitbo]

Bellingcats evidence appears to be nothing more than a photo he found of some GRU officer from 20 years ago who looks somewhat like one of the men, albeit in no way definitive (people have been running the photos through facial recognition software and not getting matches). The entire western media now springs on this assertion as if it was fact and trumpets it from the rooftops. Oddly, the chief Goonie himself, Elliot Higgins said this a while back -

[Alberon]

The media run with anything that sells papers or clicks. Doesn't matter if there is any truth in it.

[wosl]

I think he looks more than 'somewhat like' one of the men:

[Pdine]

Bellingcats evidence appears to be nothing more than a photo he found of some GRU officer from 20 years ago who looks somewhat like one of the men

That's not the only evidence Bellingcat claim to have. Here's the article if you haven't read it:

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/09/26/skripal-suspect-boshirov-identified-gru-colonel-anatoliy-chepiga/

(people have been running the photos through facial recognition software and not getting matches).

If those people expect to use facial recognition software that way ("does this one photo represent the same person as this one other photo?") then they are morons.

[biggytitbo]

I tend to agree the man on the left (who Higgins says is a GRU colonel), is the same as the man in the middle, (a photo from Boshirov's passport application apparently), at least they look very similar. But where's the raw data to back it up, it's all on trust. When did Bellingcat go from 'open source intelligence' which 'anyone can check' to being very secretive and guarded of his sources? How come this stuff is coming through him and not the vast resources of the Met police or the mainstream media?


All sorts of questions crop up if this is true - how did they get into the country, what was on their visa application? Why did a supposed senior GRU colonel go on worldwide tv under a false name? How come nobody in the media found anyone who knows him? Why was a colonel sent to salisbury to smear novichok on a door handle?

[Pdine]

I tend to agree the man on the left (who Higgins says is a GRU colonel), is the same as the man in the middle, (a photo from Boshirov's passport application apparently), at least they look very similar. But where's the raw data to back it up, it's all on trust. When did Bellingcat go from 'open source intelligence' which 'anyone can check' to being very secretive and guarded of his sources? How come this stuff is coming through him and not the vast resources of the Met police or the mainstream media?

So if a journalist makes a tentative identification from open sources and then seeks to confirm that conclusion with specialists who don't wish to be named, what should they do? Not ask? Ask but don't mention that their answer? There are long-standing journalistic practices set up to deal with these questions, and you seem to understand them when they lead to information you like, and feign ignorance when they don't.

[biggytitbo]

In what way is that 'open source'? That's just back to the old days of the Washington Post et al acting as a conduit for intelligence services and political propaganda under the guise of 'sources say'.


Still doesn't answer why this 'online sleuth', who just happens to be funded by a NATO think tank keen on ramping up a war with Russia, is the repository for this information, seemingly so simply the massive met police investigation and entire western media missed it.

[Pdine]

In what way is that 'open source'? That's just back to the old days of the Washington Post et al acting as a conduit for intelligence services and political propaganda under the guise of 'sources say'.

Read what I wrote. The photos were obtained from published sources, and the standard journalistic practice then - to avoid accusing an innocent person - is to seek confirmation from knowledgeable sources on or off the record. This is journalism 101.

Still doesn't answer why this 'online sleuth', who just happens to be funded by a NATO think tank keen on ramping up a war with Russia

Bellingcat is funded from multiple sources. Why lie?

is the repository for this information, seemingly so simply the massive met police investigation and entire western media missed it.

It's not that mysterious; the UK police don't have much reason to go beyond the current bounds of their investigation at the moment, and most other investigative journalism teams have been pared down to nothing over the long years of newspaper decline.

[biggytitbo]

So the whole western mainstream media has less resources than the couple of guys on the internet? This is your argument, really?

And the massive met police investigation weren't interested in finding out who the men where, even though that was the actual point of their investigation and they actually made an appeal for identifications?

The photos were obtained from published sources

Really? Where? Show me so we can check ourselves. Bellingcat just repeatedly cites 'sources', without naming them or pointing us to the raw data.

Bellingcat is funded from multiple sources. Why lie?

What are his other sources? NED - another US intelligence front? And an assortment of other smelly 'think tanks'  and 'societies'?

[Pdine]

So the whole western mainstream media has less resources than the couple of guys on the internet? This is your argument, really?

No - it's not even what I said. Why are you like this?

And the massive met police investigation weren't interested in finding out who the men where, even though that was the actual point of their investigation and they actually made an appeal for identifications?

They made identifications that led to the Russian authorities contacting the men. That's as far as the investigation is likely to go at this time. Spending more time digging up facts for a prosecution that seems very unlikely to happen is a waste of resources right now, fairly obviously.

Really? Where? Show me so we can check ourselves. Bellingcat just repeatedly cites 'sources', without naming them or pointing us to the raw data.

Just read the article. Is it so hard?

What are his other sources? NED - another US intelligence front? And an assortment of other smelly 'think tanks'  and 'societies'?

Hahah. Again, if I can find out with a small amount of googling so can you. Or you can just say what you want to believe but haven't checked. That's your usual MO.

[biggytitbo]

This is absolutely classic propaganda from the BBC -



Showing only the 2 images center and right, which are both from Boshirovs passport application and nobody disputes they're the same man, cropping out the one that's meant to be the Russian colonel altogether.

No - it's not even what I said. Why are you like this?

It is what you said, read your own words.

And the massive met police investigation weren't interested in finding out who the men where, even though that was the actual point of their investigation and they actually made an appeal for identifications?

Spending more time than it took a couple of amateurs on the internet!? Why are you like this?

Just read the article. Is it so hard?

I must be blind, I can't see the raw data we can check, considering this is open source intelligence and all. Got 5 seconds to take a screen grab and circle it for me?

Hahah. Again, if I can find out with a small amount of googling so can you. Or you can just say what you want to believe but haven't checked. That's your usual MO.

I already know the answer. This is what makes Higgins and his scooby doo gang so dangerous, they're set up and publicised shamelessly as some plucky amateurs digging up the truth unburdened by that taint of cynicism people have about the MSM, but are really the same propaganda forces reconstituted into a different form.  A form aching for war and confrontation with our designated enemies.

[jobotic]

It wasn't our Vlad. You leave him alone. He's a good boy. Warmongerer!

[BlodwynPig]

It wasn't our Vlad. You leave him alone. He's a good boy. Warmongerer!

It wasn't Vladimir, so why the sarcasm?

[biggytitbo]

Slightly confusing Russian article here https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3753339

They find someone who says it is him, although they have not seen him in 10 years, but then they quote someone who seems to suggest it isn't him -

He was already almost bald, not very similar to this photo, he had an open look, but now as if from under his brow. Though my eyes are brown, "she said.

Probably mangled by the Google translation, any Russian speakers give a better assessment of what it says?

[BlodwynPig]

Slightly confusing Russian article here https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3753339

They find someone who says it is him, although they have not seen him in 10 years, but then they quote someone who seems to suggest it isn't him -

Probably mangled by the Google translation, any Russian speakers give a better assessment of what it says?

Wife says he looks identical to the fish monger they had back in the Soviet-era, but also the local paedophile who was beaten up and maimed back in 2012, and her second cousin.

[eggbabysupremacy]

Let us never forget what a dozy gormless twat biggy permanently is.

[eggbabysupremacy]

you turgid sorry cunt

[Hundhoon]

this whole Salisbury poisoning thing its bullshit....its just background noise, its stupid

Russia does not have the means to carry on like this for much longer, its poorer than Spain and Italy.

its going to stop pretending it is a great power soon, and its main influence will be Germany not the US or China.

its not going to be a superpower again in our lifetimes its going through a difficult phase, the next leaser of Russia will be more willing to accommodate the US and the west, but will put on the same antagonistic front.
most people in Russia don't care about becoming a superpower again, they just care about money, which is why these sanctions have been so successful.

[BlodwynPig]

you turgid sorry cunt

Such language Mrs May, so unbecoming.

Off to the gulag for this chump!

[BlodwynPig]

this whole Salisbury poisoning thing its bullshit....its just background noise, its stupid

Russia does not have the means to carry on like this for much longer, its poorer than Spain and Italy.

its going to stop pretending it is a great power soon, and its main influence will be Germany not the US or China.

its not going to be a superpower again in our lifetimes its going through a difficult phase, the next leaser of Russia will be more willing to accommodate the US and the west, but will put on the same antagonistic front.
most people in Russia don't care about becoming a superpower again, they just care about money, which is why these sanctions have been so successful.

It still has a rich tapestry of culture to explore but dont expect the locals to go out of their way to show you

[Neville Chamberlain]

It still has a rich tapestry of culture to explore but dont expect the locals to go out of their way to show you

I thought you were referring to Salisbury for a minute, there!

[biggytitbo]

If one of these two really is a senior highly decorated GRU colonel it makes it seem even less likely he would have been sent to Salisbury to smear novichok on Sergei's knob doesn't it? There were reports that Sergei wanted to go back to Russia so perhaps the intention was to meet him to negotiate the terms. I can't help feel the Pablo Miller/Steele Dossier connection is in there too. Also Yulia, did they not know she was there, or is she involved too?


One man we still haven't heard from, who could clear a lot of this up is still notable in his silence of course -  Sergei himself. Everyone alive has made some statement, whether it be a controlled TV interview or a written statement, Bailey, Rowley, Yulia - only Sergei has said nothing. This leads me to believe he is either not physically able to say anything (even though he was released from hospital), or he's not playing ball with the British authorities (eg refuses to say what they want).

[Captain Z]

If they turn out to be Gru's minions that's despicable.

[BlodwynPig]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45694123

License fee?

A BBC team travelled some 5,000 miles east of Moscow to the village of Beryozovka, where Anatoliy Chepiga grew up, close to Russia's border with China.

Bunch of lies or a bunch of wankers. You decide.