Author Topic: Bond villain strikes again, again?  (Read 35947 times)


Alberon

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #91 on: July 05, 2018, 12:00:10 PM »
Why are basic facts shrouded in secrecy 4 months later and all 3 victims kept in captivity and most importantly why are none of our so called free press prodding for answers and doing any independent reporting, instead just opting to report lame propaganda from the government?

We don’t know anyone is kept in captivity, Biggy. And don’t forget any D Notice stops dead at the British coastline. There is nothing stopping anyone else in the world reporting anything the British government tries to hush up.

biggytitbo

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #92 on: July 05, 2018, 12:14:43 PM »
They got poisoned by a discarded fag end according to the The Star.....

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/714398/novichok-amesbury-poisoning-russia-skripal-salisbury-cigarette-nerve-agent-britain-sergei?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+daily-star-latest-news+%28Daily+Star+%3A%3A+News+Feed%29

Quote
It is believed <leaked to us by anonymous people in MI5/government/we made it up> the <alleged> Novichok is remnants of that which was <said by an unconvincing theory of the British government to be> used by Vladimir Putin's regime <government> try and kill Russian spy Sergei Skripal <Russian Sergei Skripal, who was spying for MI5/British private security firm> and his daughter Yulia.

Obviously we can dismiss the entire thing though.

biggytitbo

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #93 on: July 05, 2018, 12:20:47 PM »
We don’t know anyone is kept in captivity, Biggy. And don’t forget any D Notice stops dead at the British coastline. There is nothing stopping anyone else in the world reporting anything the British government tries to hush up.


Where are they then? Are they free to come and go as they please, speak to who they please? If so why has no independent third party seen or heard anything from them outside of those few press releases clearly written by the FO? I mean Nick Bailey, where the fuck is he? Is he back at work? Why is nobody in the entire British media interested in an heroic British cop who helped foil a dastardly Russian plot, get real they'd be all over it, yet we don't even know if he's gone back to work.

Pdine

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #94 on: July 05, 2018, 12:26:21 PM »
Why is nobody in the entire British media interested in an heroic British cop who helped foil a dastardly Russian plot, get real they'd be all over it, yet we don't even know if he's gone back to work.

Possibly because he overtly asked to be left alone?

https://www.wiltshire.police.uk/article/1809/Statements-from-Detective-Sergeant-Nick-Bailey-his-wife-Sarah-and-Chief-Constable-Kier-Pritchard-following-DS-Bailey-s-release-from-hospital

Alberon

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #95 on: July 05, 2018, 12:29:07 PM »
www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16270991.kier-Pritchard-says-ds-nick-bailey-poisoned-at-skripal-house/

According to this month old article the Chief Constable has said DS Nick Bailey has been in to Wiltshire Police Headquarters in the previous week and that was a “very positive step forward.” So it sounds like he is at home recovering.

It would be a stupid thing to lie about as no amount of D notices would stop that blowing up into a massive scandal.

biggytitbo

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #96 on: July 05, 2018, 12:38:19 PM »
Possibly because he overtly asked to be left alone?

https://www.wiltshire.police.uk/article/1809/Statements-from-Detective-Sergeant-Nick-Bailey-his-wife-Sarah-and-Chief-Constable-Kier-Pritchard-following-DS-Bailey-s-release-from-hospital

Yes, the British media notoriously sensitive when it comes to a scoop. I'm not sure either why a senior detective is such a wilting flower he is incapable of making any kind of statement that would clear up the numerous mysteries about his role. Remember, other than the fact he allegedly got poisoned we literally know nothing about what his involvement actually was.

Other than any D-notices there might be, theres a fuck load of self censorship going on aswell, just as you don't have to tell the British press to print the governments warmongering propaganda when they want to invade somewhere, you don;t have to tell them to tow the line when its something to do with 'national security', they just know.


Also, we get curiously similar FO press releases written for Bailey and Yulia, but nothing from Sergei so far. Is the old duffer not going along with it?

biggytitbo

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #97 on: July 05, 2018, 12:40:57 PM »
It would be a stupid thing to lie about as no amount of D notices would stop that blowing up into a massive scandal.

Considering the terminal incuriosity of the media about the whole affair, thats clearly not true. I mean the whole thing does stink, yet they won't touch it with a bargepole, other than the stenography of repeating everything single piece of shit the government/MI5 wants them to.

Pdine

  • Apparently I'm Jewish
Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #98 on: July 05, 2018, 12:45:39 PM »
Considering the terminal incuriosity of the media about the whole affair, thats clearly not true. I mean the whole thing does stink, yet they won't touch it with a bargepole, other than the stenography of repeating everything single piece of shit the government/MI5 wants them to.

All we really know is that the media hasn't published anything. We have no idea if they are investigating or not.

Alberon

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #99 on: July 05, 2018, 12:46:50 PM »
As I said before D Notices don’t cover the whole planet. The UK government might be able to get the U.K. press to comply and the Russian press is heavily government controlled, but there are hundreds of other countries out there.

Why does the press in none of them think there is a story here?

biggytitbo

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #100 on: July 05, 2018, 12:56:35 PM »
All we really know is that the media hasn't published anything. We have no idea if they are investigating or not.

Why? They've published shit loads of stuff pushing the governments conspiracy theory.

One thing will be interesting, will they be able to keep Dawn Sturgess and Chris Rowley silent if/when they recover aswell? Especially if they're more deeply involved, the whole thing could unravel, or will they be paid off to tell a tale then vanish somewhere?

Another good point - the doomsday scenario for the British state is on the horizon now:

a) The World Cup is a massive success with everyone talking in glowing terms about how well it is run, how friendly everyone is etc - Russia isnt so bad!
b) The Russian team are doing well
c) The England team have a genuine chance of getting to the final
d) Because of their idiotic, bullheaded self imposed 'boycott', nobody in the conservative government or Royal Family will be able to attend Englands biggest sporting occasion in 52 years
e) Because there is nothing to stop Corbyn going, he goes and gets a massive, catastrophically embarrassing publicity win over the Tories.

Of course they can probably rely on the England team to cock it up, but you'd have to be naive in the extreme to think they aren't desperately trying to come up with some plan to stop the above scenario occurring.

MojoJojo

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #101 on: July 05, 2018, 01:02:03 PM »
I really don't think Corbyn cozying up to Russia would be a massive publicity win for him.

Pdine

  • Apparently I'm Jewish
Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #102 on: July 05, 2018, 01:02:37 PM »
Why? They've published shit loads of stuff pushing the governments conspiracy theory.

Reporting a thing someone has said is easy. Digging out an accurate counternarrative when you have D notices, uncooperative authorities and a clear opposing disinformation campaign from Russia is not as easy.

biggytitbo

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #103 on: July 05, 2018, 01:03:42 PM »
As I said before D Notices don’t cover the whole planet. The UK government might be able to get the U.K. press to comply and the Russian press is heavily government controlled, but there are hundreds of other countries out there.

Why does the press in none of them think there is a story here?


Well for a start, Ive read American and German articles, at the least, that are deeply skeptical about the whole thing. The foreign press, at best, appear to have a bit of an arched eyebrow about the story, as from a distance it must look like a total farce. But as for them conducting on the ground investigative reporting in the UK, they hardly have the same access, infrastructure, connections and contacts the British media do, nor are they likely to give a big enough shit to spend the amount of time and money it would take.


What's your take, that the British gov and security services aren't lying through their teeth about this and aren't keeping the Skripals and Bailey under tight control to prevent them saying anything off script?

biggytitbo

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #104 on: July 05, 2018, 01:05:39 PM »
I really don't think Corbyn cozying up to Russia would be a massive publicity win for him.


What, Corbyn attending Englands biggest sporting occasion in 52 years, at the worlds biggest global sporting event watched by half the world is 'cozying up' to Russia?


You really drunk the Kool-aid.

Pdine

  • Apparently I'm Jewish
Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #105 on: July 05, 2018, 01:08:59 PM »
What's your take, that the British gov and security services aren't lying through their teeth about this and aren't keeping the Skripals and Bailey under tight control to prevent them saying anything off script?

Could be that, but could also be that the British authorities haven't a fucking clue what's going on. The Skripal/Bailey 'detention' is only one possible explanation of their silence. It seems to me equally likely that they willingly seeking government protection after nearly dying.

Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #106 on: July 05, 2018, 01:11:07 PM »
e) Because there is nothing to stop Corbyn going, he goes and gets a massive, catastrophically embarrassing publicity win over the Tories.

This is potentially fucking brilliant. And if the press give in to the temptation to paint him as kowtowing to Putin, they'll just look like unpatriotic cunts too.

It's the quarter finals, probably our last game, so this is the best opportunity for Corbyn to go.

Alberon

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #107 on: July 05, 2018, 01:14:21 PM »
At first glance it seemed a perfect fit for Putin. He does have form for Bond-style executions. The fact it failed  does not rule the Russians out.

What is frustrating here is that clearly a lot of evidence is being kept secret here. The UK could not have got any meaningful international cooperation with what is available in the public domain.

As to the British Secret Services being behind that? I’d be more willing to entertain that if the narrative given by the U.K. authorities didn’t paint themselves as being incompetent and too feeble to protect anyone who defects to Britain. No potential spy would trust the UK to look after them now.

In short I still think the Russians are behind the initial attack, but I don’t trust all what the British government says. As to the second incident - who the fuck knows?

EDIT - And as Pdine says maybe the UK has no fucking clue either.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #108 on: July 05, 2018, 01:19:52 PM »
If they are the same couple, presumably they knew or later discovered, what the substance was.  If that's true, why would they have kept it and if they had and then accidentally exposed themselves to it, why didn't they go together to hospital - reports say the emergency services attended the house they were in twice, hours apart, once for the woman and again much later that day to collect the man.  And why if they knew or suspected that they'd been exposed didn't they (the man at least who was taken ill hours later) tell the medics what the problem was?

I think Isnt Anything's explanation is probably somewhere near the truth.

Isn't Anything's is absolute phooey. This is government conspiracy writ large.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #109 on: July 05, 2018, 01:23:49 PM »
Ah. Nuance is nuisance.

Please try to concentrate, biggy.

I hope you have a fucking nice day out in mid-Wiltshire. #nuance

BlodwynPig

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #110 on: July 05, 2018, 01:28:46 PM »

EDIT - And as Pdine says maybe the UK has no fucking clue either.

If that is the case, this is the most audacious "stunt" since that Sean Connery film.

biggytitbo

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    • theunredacted
Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #111 on: July 05, 2018, 01:36:22 PM »
At first glance it seemed a perfect fit for Putin. He does have form for Bond-style executions.


No he doesnt.

biggytitbo

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    • theunredacted
Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #112 on: July 05, 2018, 01:37:26 PM »
Sajid Javid has -

Quote
urged Russia to come clean over how Dawn Sturgess, 44, from Salisbury, and Charlie Rowley, 45, of Amesbury, who both remain critically ill, came into contact in novichok before they collapsed on Saturday.

What, so he's saying they know how two completely unknown, random British drug addicts where poisoned now?


Paul Calf

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #113 on: July 05, 2018, 01:38:34 PM »
Sajid Javid has -

What, so he's saying they know how two completely unknown, random British drug addicts where poisoned now?



What, so he's saying he knows that these totally unknown, random people are drug addicts now?

BlodwynPig

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #114 on: July 05, 2018, 01:39:16 PM »
It is a appalling, appalling how the British Establishment are quick to pin the blame for this on Russia and Vladimir Putin.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #115 on: July 05, 2018, 01:39:48 PM »
What, so he's saying he knows that these totally unknown, random people are drug addicts now?

They're sub-human benefit cheats and deserve to suffer. That's what he is saying.

biggytitbo

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    • theunredacted
Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #116 on: July 05, 2018, 01:52:38 PM »
The magic, ever changing properties of Novichok:

Quote
Prof Robert Stockman, professor of organic chemistry, University of Nottingham, said: “Fluoro phosphate-based nerve agents (such as Sarin, VX) work quickly – so in terms of half-lives within the body, this will not be very long (minutes, maybe hours).

“They react in stages with the nervous system – if an antidote can be administered within the first 24-48 hours, much of the effects can be reversed.  However, the longer the victim goes before the antidote is administered, the agent’s effect on the nervous system ‘ages’ and the effects become irreversible. 

“Within the environment, these agents react with water to degrade, including moisture in the air, and so in the UK they would have a very limited lifetime. This is presumably why the street in Salisbury was being hosed down as a precaution – it would effectively destroy the agent.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/novichok-nerve-agent-what-is-it-explained-amesbury-wiltshire-salisbury-a8432291.html

Quote
“How long they take to degrade is certainly not data that is publicly available, but from discussions with people at [the defence laboratory] Porton Down, I understand they are slow to degrade,” said Alastair Hay, an environmental toxicologist at the University of Leeds who investigated the use of chemical weapons against Iraqi Kurds in Halabja in 1988. “This is one of the reasons the Skripals were unconscious for so long – it doesn’t break down readily in the body.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/05/wiltshire-poisonings-novichok-same-source-skripal-attack

Pdine

  • Apparently I'm Jewish
Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #117 on: July 05, 2018, 01:56:47 PM »
That proves it!

Seriously though it's not at all odd that there would be inconsistent theories and accounts in this kind of situation. In a way it would be more odd/suspect if everyone said precisely the same thing right from the start.

biggytitbo

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #118 on: July 05, 2018, 02:04:09 PM »
And not anything to do with the British media and government's ability to find some expert to back up whatever story they're trying to sell at any given time. Nothing to do with that.

Pdine

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Re: Bond villain strikes again, again?
« Reply #119 on: July 05, 2018, 02:06:14 PM »
And not anything to do with the British media and government's ability to find some expert to back up whatever story they're trying to sell at any given time. Nothing to do with that.

Again, could be either. I've said it before, but I'll say it again: when there is so much uncertainty, and no decently minimal theory, only the prejudiced choose a side.