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March 28, 2024, 11:30:15 AM

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I thought Firefly was a bit shit tbh

Started by Clownbaby, July 06, 2018, 11:54:23 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Deyv

Well, don't I feel a fool now. Sorry.

Alberon

Quote from: mothman on July 06, 2018, 08:16:22 PMI still wonder if the nature of the 'Verse was ever going to be fully explored - or explained. Was it really just one star system with about three-dozen planets? Or a very small stellar cluster or binary (or more) star system where everything was close enough together to not involve full-on interstellar travel (i.e. involving long-duration sublight journeys, or some magical FTL capability - which none of the ships appeared to have)?

Whedon and co had no fucking idea. The opening narration talked about a 'galaxy of new earths' and this was changed later to a 'solar system and hundreds of new Earths'. Just not enough thought in the world building.


As a completely separate issue I have a real bugbear with other stars and planets being called Solar Systems in fiction and non-fiction. They are star systems in their own right, such as the Betelgeuse System for instance, but there is only one Solar System - the system around the star Sol.

a duncandisorderly

I'll take whedon's poor cod sci-fi over no sci-fi at all; things are better now. people have higher standards now that every damn thing is being judged, juried & executed on social media, & people like that twat lindelof are rightly strung up when they get it wrong. but at the time, 'firefly' was decent enough. no 'babylon 5', but entertaining enough.

my mrs was a big buffy buff, & coerced me into watching most of the last two series while we were a'courting. when it was finished, I gave her the box of 'firefly' & said "here's some more whedon".

a day or so later, when she'd binged the lot, she said "finished! where's season 2?" & I had to break the news to her, a series junkie, that there was to be no more binge.

in almost twelve years of knowing this woman, this was the most angry I've seen her.
now, she works in tv & movies professionally, at a fairly high level, for disney. she's no stranger to the mechanics of production or to the art of story-telling for the screen, large or small. so when she says something's been cut off at the knees, it probably has, no matter that whedon & co were warned of their early demise & had chance to wrap things up.

in fact, it was left to 'serenity' to try to tie up a few of the loose ends, & I duly offered it up to appease, but she remained resolutely dischuffed, & only recently conceded (having watched a lot of 'castle') that fillion is too fat for a space-suit & that 'fire-fly' will never be back.

I will force her to watch at least the first two seasons of the original 'star trek' when the kids are a bit older.

Z

Quote from: a duncandisorderly on July 06, 2018, 10:52:37 PM
that twat lindelof
Gimme the Leftovers over everything Whedon has ever done (w/e of Toy Story and Speed).

Bingo Fury

What a bunch of joyless fucks there are on here. The pilot, "Our Mrs Reynolds", "Trash", "Out of Gas", "Objects in Space", "Aerial", "The Message" and "War Stories" are all terrific episodes, which also had the unforeseen effect of making the Trek franchise look horribly past-it and putting an end to my Trekkie phase. I watched them again not so long ago and they're still immensely lovable. That said, I was and remain an absolute Buffy fanboy, so the Whedon approach clearly pushes the right buttons for me.

I also watched the Serenity movie again. That, sadly, hasn't worn nearly as well.

a duncandisorderly

Quote from: Z on July 06, 2018, 11:07:04 PM
Gimme the Leftovers over everything Whedon has ever done (w/e of Toy Story and Speed).

not seen it, & will investigate based on your recommendation & what I've just read about it.
but it's more recent than his brush with the wrath of trekkies or trekkers or whatever they call themselves, & that's kind of my point. the second trek movie, the "khaaaaaan!" one was utter shit.
& I didn't say whedon was any better, either. :-)

Sebastian Cobb

I enjoyed it but I was probably about 15 at the time. I should really rewatch it. Just like I should re-read Snow Crash and The Diamond Age.

I watched Altered Carbon recently and enjoyed it, but fuck me some of the dialogue was clumsy as fuck. 'You can't die, I won't let you'. mate.


phantom_power

Firefly was great and, given how Whedon's other shows took time to grow, could have become something really special. The final episode, Objects In Space, is superb. Funny, creepy, scary, philosophical, touching. It has everything and points to what the show could have been if allowed to explore the realities of the universe with a bit more time

NoSleep

Quote from: Alberon on July 06, 2018, 10:35:45 PM
Whedon and co had no fucking idea. The opening narration talked about a 'galaxy of new earths' and this was changed later to a 'solar system and hundreds of new Earths'. Just not enough thought in the world building.

They probably did have an idea but left it open to see where they wanted to go in later seasons. There was obviously a "beyond" in the the Firefly universe, where Reavers lurked (and maybe more), but the first season sticks to the "known" Alliance territory and its perimeter.

bgmnts

Actually, thinking about it, if you want a short lived space western series, go for Cowboy Bebop.

magval

All I remember about this was the awful forced lingo. "Shiny", wasn't it?

NoSleep

Mandarin...

Quote from: Firefly WikiFirefly does not translate what the characters are saying when speaking in Mandarin. If the viewer chooses to add subtitles on Netflix, the screen will display "Speaking Chinese" rather than translating what the character is actually saying. Nevertheless, each episode's individual wiki page contains a "Mandarin Translation" section.

http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/Language

More plausible than all the Belters (The Expanse) talking Yardie (and very badly at times).

Custard

Whedon did continue Firefly, through a handful of comics. They were ok, but you're not really missing anything if you never read them

I tried Buffy a year or so ago, and got up to episode 4 I think. It was alright, but the fact that I've never been arsed to return to it says quite a lot. Might have to soon, as I keep reading praise for it everywhere

phantom_power

Buffy improves massively after the first season

Bingo Fury

Very much so. For a long time, I thought of Buffy as a show that hit the ground running (because Whedon had had time to mull over and address the flaws of the movie version), but on a rewatch found season one to be much ropier than I'd remembered. You could basically skip to the start of season two, to be honest.

Spoon of Ploff

I preferred Farscape if I'm being honest.

*runs for cover*

mothman

Nothing wrong with Farscape. It was possibly a bit of a noughties Lexx - but better than that suggests - and good often-camp fun. I've no compunction about declaring myself a fan.

Alberon

Farscape was ace!

Lexx was always all over the shop with each season off on a tangent to the last and often horribly bad. But on a good day it could be quite entertaining.

Endicott

Quote from: mothman on July 09, 2018, 12:40:18 PM
Nothing wrong with Farscape. It was possibly a bit of a noughties Lexx - but better than that suggests - and good often-camp fun. I've no compunction about declaring myself a fan.

Yes it's quite easy to be a fan of both Farscape and Firefly, they are both brilliant. Lexx began its run in 1997, Farscape in 1999. I reckon Farscape was in dev for more than 2 years you cheeky scamp.

Mister Six

I downloaded every episode of Farscape and attempted a rewatch about five years ago, but that first season is pretty mediocre and surprisingly bland. I should've just skipped to the point where it became a daft, OTT, S&M tinged cartoon but I just stopped. Next time!

Lexx is available on Amazon Prime, so I'll give that a go. I remember wanking myself stupid over Xenia Seeberg in SFX at the time, so it'll have that going for it, at least.

Quote from: a duncandisorderly on July 06, 2018, 11:22:34 PM
not seen it, & will investigate based on your recommendation & what I've just read about it.
but it's more recent than his brush with the wrath of trekkies or trekkers or whatever they call themselves, & that's kind of my point. the second trek movie, the "khaaaaaan!" one was utter shit.
& I didn't say whedon was any better, either. :-)

Having looked at Lindelof's IMDB page, he was responsible for some absolutely shocking tripe. But perhaps he's just shit at films, because i gather Lost was all right until the network made him drag it out and he eventually left, and The Leftovers is absolutely one of the best TV series ever made.

mothman

Quote from: Endicott on July 09, 2018, 02:37:44 PM
Yes it's quite easy to be a fan of both Farscape and Firefly, they are both brilliant. Lexx began its run in 1997, Farscape in 1999. I reckon Farscape was in dev for more than 2 years you cheeky scamp.

Just because I posited a slight resemblance between them wasn't meant to imply any plagiarism. I just think of Lexx as being more a 90s show, and Farscape a 00s (and didn't it actually start showing here in the new year of 2000?). I actually tend to forget how short Farscape's run was in the grand scheme of things, because 1999 to 2003 (when the show itself ended, prematurely) or 2004 (when the Peacekeeper Wars miniseries finished off the story) were such tumultuous and special years for me (moved to London, met my wife, moved out of London, moved to other side of world).

Endicott

Quote from: Mister Six on July 09, 2018, 02:41:04 PM
I downloaded every episode of Farscape and attempted a rewatch about five years ago, but that first season is pretty mediocre and surprisingly bland. I should've just skipped to the point where it became a daft, OTT, S&M tinged cartoon but I just stopped. Next time!

That's my favourite season! Only just mind but still! The run of the last 8 episodes of S1 is the best run they ever did.

Mister Six

What's a good point to jump on? I can more or less remember the characters, like Beard Man and S&M Voldemort and Ben Browder 2, so I can cut to (literally, IIRC) the chase.

Endicott

S1E15 Durka Returns is where Chiana is introduced. As I said from there to the end of S1 is immense, and in the main interconnected. But skip the penultimate Bone to be Wild, it is definitely bland.

After that? If you thought S1 was bland, I'm not sure what to recommend. You should just watch them all, but if that doesn't work these are my not to be missed episodes.

S2:
The Way We Weren't
Out of Their Minds
Look at the Princess (three episode trilogy)
The Ugly Truth
A Clockwork Nebari
and the final 4 eps of the season

S3 is difficult to break down - so conversely, I was going to write a list of missable episodes, until I realised I didn't want to. If I'd taken this approach with S2 there'd be no list either, but I've written it now. The Browder 2 story starts at the end of E6 Eat Me. For gods sake don't miss Scratch 'n Sniff or Revenging Angel. I-Yensch, You-Yensch is a personal favourite.

S4 is a mixed bag. Whilst there are some good episodes in the first half of S4, it is easily by far the worst run of episodes in the entire show. No question. Although the Browder penned John Quixote video game episode is very good fun. The second half of S4 is great though. Top stuff. Really delivers on the SF premise of the lost astronaut actually returning home and the ramifications and culture clash that ensure from that. Start from E11 Unrealized Reality.

Then, Peacekeeper Wars to finish off.


madhair60

It was shit, that's why it got cancelled

Spiteface

Quote from: Shameless Custard on July 09, 2018, 09:26:45 AM
Whedon did continue Firefly, through a handful of comics. They were ok, but you're not really missing anything if you never read them

I tried Buffy a year or so ago, and got up to episode 4 I think. It was alright, but the fact that I've never been arsed to return to it says quite a lot. Might have to soon, as I keep reading praise for it everywhere
Buffy really doesn't take off until season 2. As someone already said, you could quite easily skip right to that and not have missed much of anything bar one small plot point in the season 1 finale that gets addressed when a certain character with a crazy accent shows up. Season 3 is the absolute peak of the entire series. Anyone who says otherwise is just wrong.


Angel likewise needed a season to figure itself out. Once it does it absolutely blows Buffy out of the water at every turn. And it improves the characters that carry over from Buffy.
Dollhouse, once it gets past the "Which outfit will be put Eliza Dushku in this week?" phase is fucking brilliant. You can also tell Whedon had ideas for more than the 2 seasons it got, as season 2 is so rushed (The senator arc was an entire season of material in itself).

Firefly never appealed to me at the time, although the people in it have been in other things I loved (like other Whedon shows), but the amount of people who just won't let it fucking go, just makes me irrationally hate the show. Same goes for fans of other axed shows who then start petitions to bring it back on Netflix.

Spoon of Ploff

Quote from: madhair60 on July 09, 2018, 08:10:21 PM
It was shit, that's why it got cancelled

Was angry there for a moment until i realized you were referring to Firefly.

Endicott

Quote from: Spiteface on July 09, 2018, 08:11:47 PM
Buffy really doesn't take off until season 2. As someone already said, you could quite easily skip right to that and not have missed much of anything bar one small plot point in the season 1 finale that gets addressed when a certain character with a crazy accent shows up. Season 3 is the absolute peak of the entire series. Anyone who says otherwise is just wrong.

S3 / S5 depending on mood. Both are immense. I think you do need to see the end of S1, the finale at the very least.

Quote
Angel likewise needed a season to figure itself out. Once it does it absolutely blows Buffy out of the water at every turn. And it improves the characters that carry over from Buffy.

Well, it does wonders for Wesley. And maybe Angel. S1 is a bit rough. S2 is also a bit rough until the end. S3 is brilliant. S4 should have been brilliant but they wrote someone out and ruined it. S5 is alright, better that 4 anyway. Wesley's character though, that arc is a thing of beauty.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: bgmnts on July 09, 2018, 07:44:36 AM
Actually, thinking about it, if you want a short lived space western series, go for Cowboy Bebop.

Quite enjoyed that when I watched it. I made the mistake of buying the DVD collection off of ebay, the subtitles where useless. Had to download a fansubbed one.

Pranet

My view of Angel was a bit different. I liked early noir Angel, hated the end of season 2 after really liking it up to that point, thought seasons 3 and 4 were a bit blah, quite liked the final season. But not seen any of it for years and years.