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Theresa May: The Final Days

Started by Mark Steels Stockbroker, July 08, 2018, 10:12:56 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Sony Walkman Prophecies

Quote from: Urinal Cake on September 24, 2018, 03:02:05 AM
A second referendum would be a waste- nobody really knew what Brexit meant the first time. Now you expect people to distinguish between no deal, soft and hard Brexit? Further the EU won't allow a soft Brexit without free movement. Which the Conservatives won't allow to happen and Labor is at best wary about.

Probably the most sensible post in the entire thread. Yep. That's about the size of it.

Cuellar

#1411
Quote from: Urinal Cake on September 24, 2018, 03:02:05 AM
A second referendum would be a waste- nobody really knew what Brexit meant the first time. Now you expect people to distinguish between no deal, soft and hard Brexit? Further the EU won't allow a soft Brexit without free movement. Which the Conservatives won't allow to happen and Labor is at best wary about.

But if the referendum returned a preference for a soft brexit with free movement, the Conservatives (or Labour) would HAVE to do it or else all trust in politicians would be evaporate, they'd be ignoring democracy, it would set a dangerous precedent, there'd be rioting in the streets etc etc etc

edit: forgot the main one: it would be THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE

mothman

Again, THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE only really matters as long as it aligns with what the parties want. Which is Forrins Out, With A Few Exceptions (Con: Swedish au pairs, Russian oligarchs; Lab: heroic freedom-fighting socialist refugees from Nicaragua). Not because they're racist, of course; the Conservatives just have enough people in the county to look down on already, Labour don't want them taking jobs from Are Brive Factory Workers.

Urinal Cake

That's what democracy is- a dictatorship for four years. You delegate a member to make decisions on your behalf. No direct democracy for you.

The will of the people is dependent on what the choices actually entail. A second referendum would be useful to decide on a minimum set of goals or aims for Brexit rather than no deal, soft, hard Brexit. The problem is I've got a feeling 'free movement' is not as popular as you think it is.

mothman

Meh. Only free movement we all really care about is our own. Stag weekends in Bratislava. Mini-breaks in Barcelona. My wife wants us to drive to Croatia next year, the admin for that is going to be a nightmare. Fortunately the pound's inevitable tanking means the Euro conversion will price our holiday out of reach anyway.

hamfist

Quote from: Urinal Cake on September 24, 2018, 03:02:05 AM
A second referendum would be a waste- nobody really knew what Brexit meant the first time. Now you expect people to distinguish between no deal, soft and hard Brexit? Further the EU won't allow a soft Brexit without free movement. Which the Conservatives won't allow to happen and Labor is at best wary about.

They should phrase the referendum appropriately based on the impact studies :

EU Referendum (North East Version)

Please tick one of the following options:

* Remain in the EU with 0% change to economic growth                                                 []
* Leave the EU but remain in the single market with -3% impact to economic growth        []
* Leave the EU and single market with a trade deal resulting in -11% impact to economic growth        []
* Leave the EU and single market with no deal resulting in -16% impact to economic growth               []



Howj Begg

Quote from: Urinal Cake on September 24, 2018, 03:02:05 AM
A second referendum would be a waste- nobody really knew what Brexit meant the first time. Now you expect people to distinguish between no deal, soft and hard Brexit? Further the EU won't allow a soft Brexit without free movement. Which the Conservatives won't allow to happen and Labor is at best wary about.

It wouldn't be a waste at all. Nobody knew the first time (except, you know, Remainers, who were right) but now people know, oh yes, they know. And they don't need to distinguish as nicely as you suggest - people will want to go for the softest possible option - or Article 50 extension - because that's what the majority of the public want, and will vote for. You're right about free movement, and this will become abundantly clear to everyone in the event of a referendum. Which is why the case for free movement and for immigration needs to made by everyone who has a conscience this time round, everyone who calls them a Leftist.

Have faith in the people this time, a lot of shit has changed since Cameron.

Dr Rock

Quote from: hamfist on September 24, 2018, 10:38:18 AM
* Leave the EU and single market with no deal resulting in -16% impact to economic growth and the likelihood that the IRA will blow up an Arndale Centre near you.    []

Captain Z

Quote from: Howj Begg on September 24, 2018, 10:48:28 AM
Have faith in the people this time

Pfff

Quote from: Howj Begg on September 24, 2018, 10:48:28 AM
a lot of shit has changed since Cameron.

Yeah, at least Cameron seemed capable of making a decision and sticking to it.

olliebean

TBH I think whether Brexit happens, and what sort of Brexit it is if it does, is likely to be less important in the scheme of things than whether, in the years immediately following Brexit, we continue to be governed by a bunch of utter cunts. We need an election as a higher priority than another referendum.

Paul Calf

A naked Brexit will severely affect how much money, influence and goodwill any government is going to have to do the stuff they want to do though, so it's kind of important.

olliebean


marquis_de_sad


AsparagusTrevor


Replies From View



SteveDave


Thomas

What's the percentage breakdown of a red, white, and blue Brexit? 33.3% all round, or is it unfairly weighted?

Fambo Number Mive

QuoteThe government has spent two years and £40,000 of taxpayers' money trying to hide how little the northern powerhouse minister visited the north of England in his role, in what one prominent northern figure called "a blatant disregard for the principles of democratic accountability".

In February 2016 the Guardian submitted a freedom of information (FoI) request to the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) asking how regularly James Wharton, who had then been northern powerhouse minister for just over six months, travelled outside London.

The department flouted a requirement to respond to the request within 20 working days and did not provide a response for more than four months – at which point it denied the application.


The Information Commissioner's Office then undertook an investigation, during the course of which it found that the department adopted "what appears to have been a strategy of wilful procrastination in order to obstruct a request for information".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/27/government-hid-details-of-northern-powerhouse-minister-james-wharton-visits-to-the-north

fat_abbott

He was my local MP for one term, and what a greasy piece of work he was. He spent more time in Sri Lanka than he did in Stockton South. His major achievement was getting a path relaid a few streets away.

Absolutely everything that is wrong with modern politics.

And by the way, he is 34.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Yes, your government can't even be arsed paying train tickets to cover lip-service for their own bullshit.

Get fucking rid of them

jobotic

Theresa May just said "the mess we inherited from the last Labour government" on the local news.

non capisco

Quote from: jobotic on September 27, 2018, 10:40:46 PM
Theresa May just said "the mess we inherited from the last Labour government" on the local news.

Seriously?! Fucking hell.

jobotic

To be fair the interviewer did say "that was eight years ago".

QT tonight features Rees-Mogg AND Rod Liddle so balance has been restored.

Paul Calf

I'm not watching that. Seeing Rees-Mogg, hearing him speak and remembering that his job is to help run a modern democracy with heavy reliance on the tech sector in the 21st Century makes my blood boil and my tears turn to acid.

Consignia

Rod Liddle said he voted for Brexit from a left wing perspective. The fact that wasn't followed by thundering laughter shows what a shit show the thing is.

Neville Chamberlain

Quote from: Consignia on September 28, 2018, 09:26:46 AM
Rod Liddle said he voted for Brexit from a left wing perspective.

Thanks for that, Rod.

Rich Uncle Skeleton

Quote from: jobotic on September 27, 2018, 10:40:46 PM
Theresa May just said "the mess we inherited from the last Labour government" on the local news.

Oh fuck off, that's exactly what I would get whenever I wrote to Ben Howlett during his mercifully brief stint as MP for Bath. No answers just "oh it's all Labour's fault" despite not being in government for six fucking years.

The fact they're still happy to trot this out 8 years later after Labour would be funny if it weren't for the fact that people are obviously going to parrot it without question.

EOLAN

Usually such terms as the other mess that lot made us inherit is to discredit the opposition. But given how little the current Labour leadership differs from that of the time, that shit doesn't really stick all that well.
Or is it a cade of this is still Labour when it suits and this is a much more toxic form of the usual labour at other times.

Quote from: Rich Uncle Skeleton on September 28, 2018, 10:00:48 AM
Oh fuck off, that's exactly what I would get whenever I wrote to Ben Howlett during his mercifully brief stint as MP for Bath. No answers just "oh it's all Labour's fault" despite not being in government for six fucking years.

The fact they're still happy to trot this out 8 years later after Labour would be funny if it weren't for the fact that people are obviously going to parrot it without question.

The worst thing is that the council she was talking about has been out of Labour control since 2005.