[BBC Four] Mark Kermode's Secrets of Cinema

[Sebastian Cobb]

I caught the trailer for this last night and hadn't heard anything about it. Classic BBC not advertising things on the fringe channels.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2018/29/mark-kermodes-secrets-of-cinema

Starts next Tuesday.

[Shit Good Nose]

To be fair it's been teased on BBC4 and BBC2 for the last few weeks, albeit with just "coming soon" rather than giving an actual date.

I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, and I don't often agree with him, but I've been a fan since his days on Mark and Lard's night time show, and he remains about the only critic that I enjoy reading and listening to.  I shall be watching this, and recording it to the hard drive just in case it's a keeper.

[St_Eddie]

I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, and I don't often agree with him, but I've been a fan since his days on Mark and Lard's night time show, and he remains about the only critic that I enjoy reading and listening to.

I'm much the same.  I rarely ever agree with his reviews (if Kermode loves it, I'll probably hate it and vice versa) but he's still an interesting critic to listen to.  I've also read a couple of his books and they made for an entertaining read, as they're full of interesting and funny anecdotes.

[Wet Blanket]

I think this'll be good, although Robbie Collin is better isn't he? Someone should give him a show of his own or pair him up with Kermode for a Siskel and Ebert kind of show - I've never understood why nobody has ever thought to rip off the format of two critics arguing the toss.

[Sin Agog]

I think this'll be good, although Robbie Collin is better isn't he? Someone should give him a show of his own or pair him up with Kermode for a Siskel and Ebert kind of show - I've never understood why nobody has ever thought to rip off the format of two critics arguing the toss.

There's a pretty good recent clip of them doing just that over Hereditary, although a good chunk of it is spent trying to get over the hurdle of the movies Kermode compares it to in his head (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adz1aFPxEQ0).  I quite like his unabashed nerdiness in that regard, but you can totally see why Joe Cornish got so fucked off with him that one time for failing to overcome his Shauna Dead comparisons that time he reviewed Attack the Block.  It's the main reason why Kermode isn't even allowed to sit in on Mayo's interviews anymore.  It always gets derailed by geeky minutiae, or goes horribly south like when Kermode got all prickly when the Anomalisa guys said they weren't into the latest Pixar movie.

[popcorn]

I'm among the Kermode critics. It's not about how much I agree with him - that's not important to me in a critic - but in his general plumniness, crap sense of humour, and love of cliches. (Cliches in his own speech and writing I mean.)

I read one of his books and thought it was dreadful. His elaborate story about crap service in a multiplex was supposed to be funny but came uncomfortably close to accidental Partridge.

I think this'll be good, although Robbie Collin is better isn't he? Someone should give him a show of his own or pair him up with Kermode for a Siskel and Ebert kind of show - I've never understood why nobody has ever thought to rip off the format of two critics arguing the toss.

Agreed. Robbie Collin is a much more engaging man to listen to. He manages to come across as an independent and confident thinker without seeming at all smug.

[Wet Blanket]

Yeah I read Hatchet Job and thought it was appalling. I don't think much to his Observer column either. He does have an interesting perspective and is good at articulating his perspective on the radio/TV but he's no kind of writer. On the page it's Collin for the win.

I'll definitely watch that debate about Hereditary, although presumably its's Kermode in the against column, which I also fall into for that film.

[madhair60]

Kermode is dog shit

[DukeDeMondo]

This is the thing he's co-written with Kim Newman, isn't it? Somebody else too. Name escapes me. I thought it was going to be all about horror pictures. Obviously not.

I'm looking forward to it, anyway. I like Kermode a lot. I haven't listened to the podcast in 8 months or more, mind, the odd review on YouTube aside. I feel a bit poorer for it. Probably be a week's work trying to get back into it again now. Getting reacquainted with the in jokes and all the calling back and harking forward and Benjamin ClergyCorner and whatever else. Impenetrable or near enough, I'd imagine.

[Famous Mortimer]

Now Kim Newman is a person I'd happily fire into the sun. Absolute dogshit.

I used to dislike Kermode because I didn't understand why he loved the Exorcist so much, but a couple of years ago I started listening to his radio reviews on Youtube and rather got into him. Interesting, passionate, don't always agree with him, but his books are great and he seems like one of the good people.

[Funcrusher]

Kim Newman's okay. Kermode is terrible.

[Avril Lavigne]

I haven't listened to the podcast in 8 months or more, mind, the odd review on YouTube aside. I feel a bit poorer for it. Probably be a week's work trying to get back into it again now. Getting reacquainted with the in jokes and all the calling back and harking forward and Benjamin ClergyCorner and whatever else. Impenetrable or near enough, I'd imagine.

To be honest, that's the stuff I got tired of which led to me not bothering with the podcast anymore and instead checking the Youtube channel every now and then.  I understood all the in-jokes as I'd been a regular listener for over a decade, but it was getting tedious and taking up so much time when all I wanted was to get straight into whichever review I was most interested in without having to hear this week's listener-marriage-proposal letter or 'Minions' joke reference or bad Danny Dyer impression.

[Wet Blanket]

Kim Newman is dogshit.

[popcorn]

To be honest, that's the stuff I got tired of which led to me not bothering with the podcast anymore and instead checking the Youtube channel every now and then.  I understood all the in-jokes as I'd been a regular listener for over a decade, but it was getting tedious and taking up so much time when all I wanted was to get straight into whichever review I was most interested in without having to hear this week's listener-marriage-proposal letter or 'Minions' joke reference or bad Danny Dyer impression.

The in-jokes are awful. They are fucking godawful. The thing about "How do you do X? You just do X!" was so bitterly unfunny when it emerged and each time it's repeated it subtracts from the joy in the universe in increasingly large fractions.

edit: for all my complaining, though, I find the podcast by far the most acceptable delivery mechanism for film news in the podcast world. I'll take a couple of boring middle-aged men over shrieking nerds any day.

[Bazooka]

He loves the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, so I can't really resent him

[DukeDeMondo]

Where's all this great bit of Kim Newman bashing coming from? Nightmare Movies is all but essential and his commentaries are fantastic. Ones I've heard anyway. What's it all about, anyway? Explain yourselves.

EDIT: Here's the two of them talking about the series, anyway.

[a duncandisorderly]

Now Kim Newman is a person I'd happily fire into the sun. Absolute dogshit.

I used to dislike Kermode because I didn't understand why he loved the Exorcist so much, but a couple of years ago I started listening to his radio reviews on Youtube and rather got into him. Interesting, passionate, don't always agree with him, but his books are great and he seems like one of the good people.

agreed on both points. kermode also likes the comsat angels, & so do I.

[Shit Good Nose]

Let's also not forget Kermode's talents on the double bass as well.

Seem to remember someone on here a few years ago saying that his wife's a bit of a cunt.

[St_Eddie]

If anyone's the proverbial doggy doo doo, it's me.

Kermode is dog shit

Mate, you're an is.

I used to dislike Kermode because I didn't understand why he loved the Exorcist so much...

Because it's one of the best films ever made.  Possibly?  Maybe?  Per chance?

[Funcrusher]

Not even the best William Friedkin in the Beatles.

[mothman]

Seem to remember someone on here a few years ago saying that his wife's a bit of a cunt.

I gather she's an academic of some kind, from when I followed him on Twitter. Of course he could just say that in the same way Stephen King's book bios always stress his wife is "the novelist, Tabitha King." THE novelist? I thought there were several? Like, for example, er, Stephen King? Or perhaps to differentiate her from all the other Tabitha Kings. He presumably got fed up of having his writing time interrupted by calls for the proctologist Tabitha King.

[Famous Mortimer]

Because it's one of the best films ever made.  Possibly?  Maybe?  Per chance?

Ah, you're right! But, I wonder if anyone else on this forum has an expressed an opinion about definitive statements on whether a movie is good or not?

Why are people not allowed to have opinions?

I consider Aliens is an objectively superior work of art to Alien 3.  However, I subjectively prefer Alien 3 to Aliens.  I'm sorry if you can't process that information.  Quite frankly, it's not your place to tell me that I'm "silly".

Oh, and who cares if somebody prefers Terminator 3 to Terminator 2?  It's not an opinion which I personally hold myself but honestly, who are you to tell anyone that they're wrong for having an opinion about a film?

Where's all this great bit of Kim Newman bashing coming from? Nightmare Movies is all but essential and his commentaries are fantastic. Ones I've heard anyway. What's it all about, anyway? Explain yourselves.

I saw him on a few of those talking heads documentaries about...I have no idea now...and found him unpleasant. Like, something about his appearance and demeanour rubbed me up completely the wrong way. Then years later I read one of his novels, having mostly forgotten his existence, and hated it. Obviously, my opinion of Kermode has changed down the years, but I think my hatred of Newman is pretty much set in stone now.

[Schnapple]

Kermode's great on radio with Mayo, but I too have to zip forward to the reviews section, as the reader correspondence is cripplingly unfunny and long-winded. It especially grates when Mark reaches a potentially very interesting, usually arthouse film to review at the end, and is forced to do so in about 15 seconds.

[St_Eddie]

Ah, you're right! But, I wonder if anyone else on this forum has an expressed an opinion about definitive statements on whether a movie is good or not?

Oh, please.  There's a difference between light-hearted ribbing and flat out telling somebody that they're wrong for liking or not liking a film.  Steven was flat out telling me that I was wrong for preferring Alien 3 to Aliens.  Seeming as it appears that I have to add a disclaimer for joshing humour; if someone doesn't subjectively like The Exorcist, that's completely valid.  If someone subjectively likes The Exorcist, that's completely valid.  If someone is subjectively indifferent to The Exorcist, that's completely valid.

Having said that, you were wondering as to why Mark Kermode professed to love The Exorcist.  Well, to him, it clearly is one of the best films ever made.  On that front, I actually did provide a valid explanation to your criticism of Kermode.  Although, in all honesty, that wasn't the intent of my reply.

Perhaps I should stop being facetious on a comedy forum and just state things in a matter of fact way, to avoid potential confusion.  That's the trouble with communication over the Internet, I suppose; people read your comments and take everything said at face value.  If I'd said the same thing face to face, you'd know that I was joking from the cheeky grin on my face, as I said it.

[Brundle-Fly]

I like Kermode and will be tuning in. Enjoyed Hatchet Job but after reading it felt like getting his phone number and call Mark to stop beating himself up.

I used to often spot Kim Newman wandering down Denmark Street, no doubt popping by the old Forbidden Planet on th way down to the Curzon. Saw him about a year ago and he looks exactly the same. Somebody who has carved his own icon image with precision and has stuck to it like a film critic version of Robert Smith.

[Nowhere Man]

I quite enjoyed that, although I feel like it packed quite a lot into it, although Love Actually is still fucking dreadful mawkish bollocks in my estimation.

[gloria]

I enjoyed this canter through rom-coms tonight. Informative and with plenty of good clips. I haven't seen Love, Actually since it came out (I remember hating it all except for Emma Thompson's brilliant performance) but I laughed like a fool at the clip of Martine McCutcheon saying "Where the fuck's my fucking coat?"

[dr beat]

It was ok, although it didnt make me want to reappraise romcoms. The horror references felt a bit shoehorned in, perhaps also The Shape of Water as well.

[Funcrusher]

Does Mark Kermode know any secrets of cinema? My beef is always that he's a horror/exploitation sci-fantasy guy (and not even a great one) who is just out of his depth with anything outside of that. No surprise that he's even shoehorning horror stuff into a rom-coms episode. He's a genre guy who's managed to rebrand himself as a general critic, by selling his larger than life persona and Mark Lamarr hairstyle.

Because it's him he's made a series about cinema that just focuses on genres, so anything that falls outside genre falls outside of its remit.
Looking at the trailer for the inevitable horror episode the animation seems to be suggesting that a particular film might be featuring. I wonder what it will be? I guess it's a secret for now.

[Soup]

He's a genre guy talking about cinema with reference to genre. I'm not sure what the problem is.

Also I think Kermode does have a longstanding affection for (and interest in) romcoms, hene his constant good reviews for Richard Curtis shite like Love Actually and About Time