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Peep Show rewatch

Started by Ferris, July 19, 2018, 05:30:43 AM

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New Jack

free jeff

Quote from: Captain Z on July 31, 2018, 11:38:42 AM
I ended up binging all of series 1 again, but I'd already rewatched the whole thing in time for the start of series 9 and it still feels too fresh. If it continues I might join in when my favourite episodes get mentioned.

Thought the 'Jeff is the good guy' angle was an interesting one but this breaks down as soon as he sings in the lift at the end of his first episode.

Merely taunting the office weirdo for trying it on with the girl he's about to date. You could, and I will, argue it was a clear signal to keep away from Sophie, as she's obviously the one who told him (and presumably Barbara as well, as the office weirdo is good banter), suggesting there is already dialogue there Mark is unethically seeking to impose himself upon and is even a foul interloper upon

1-0 Jeff

Replies From View

I always forget that episodes of Peep Show are not a full half hour.  I'm not used to it outside of American shows where there are also a thousand episodes per series to take the edge off how short they are.

New Jack

Quote from: Replies From View on August 02, 2018, 01:40:42 PM
I always forget that episodes of Peep Show are not a full half hour.  I'm not used to it outside of American shows where there are also a thousand episodes per series to take the edge off how short they are.

Would another fully Americanized take on this classic Brit series soothe your worried brow?

Gregory Torso

Watching the first series now and it's making me really homesick, or nostalgic maybe. I want to have a friend again and go to the supermarket pissed, and live in a flat. Seeing them looking so young as well, it's tugging my heart chords. I was young once. Parties and bowling and smoking. Owch, the passing of time has barbs in it.

Loving this idea of Good Jeff, as well. It really works. Perhaps he becomes more of a cunt later, can't be sure because I always just accepted him as the arsehole, even though Mark does some absolutely prickish things. I seem to remember him treating Dobby horrendously later.

"On The Pull" is the standout for series 1 for me, even though I've seen it loads I still burst out laughing at lines like "What if I lose it? I'm not going to do a poo am I?"

mrpupkin

Doesn't Jeff cheat on Sophie with a woman at the pub in that one where he becomes top pals with Jez? Sorry to destroy your bad theory but yes, yes he does.

ajsmith2

Jeff is more nuanced in series 1 and 2 mainly cos we get to see more of him. He can still be just a much of a cunt back then. In the later series, he gets diminished screen time and there's usually only time for him to do a cuntish party piece before making way for newer characters.

Captain Z

My favourite Jeff moment is the episode where Mark is put in charge of 'Project Zeus' and pleads for Jeff's notes despite aggressively dismissing them earlier. First time I watched it I really believed he was about to hand them over but instead he pulls his middle finger out of his bag with a perfect shit-eating grin. Definitely on Jeff's side in that episode.

New Jack

#67
Quote from: mrpupkin on August 03, 2018, 05:43:52 PM
Doesn't Jeff cheat on Sophie with a woman at the pub in that one where he becomes top pals with Jez? Sorry to destroy your bad theory but yes, yes he does.

What, he kisses her? Not on, no, but you seem to be forgetting that Sophie let him off the hook pretty fucking quick!

I mean, Jez himself informed Mark that in his estimation they were going off to bone. Doesn't seem like the result was nearly as bad as how it is painted.

It's very charming if you want to take umbrage on behalf of Sophie, but she seemed to not see it as a huge, massive deal after all. We simply have to judge their relationship by how that episode ended - still united, Mark still spurned, after some disgusting behaviour.

Besides, it's easy to condemn. We hear Mark's sick train of thought, but who knows if Jeff was being insecure, whether he had regret (he certainly apologies to Sophie who accepts it, so who are we to nose in?)

Who knows if the instability was caused by the office weirdo with a crush on his gf popping round and trying to undermine him?

After all, Mark's modus operandi was pretending to be: "Jeff's apparent mate, who would never try to nick his bird from under his stupid old-fashioned nose." Such naked, evil candour!

Sophie allowed Mark to intrude, and even lied about Jeff being controlling! Hmm, that sounds a bit much for a relationship in its tender early stages. I might not look elsewhere myself, I'm not excusing Jeff here, but he has extenuating circumstances between something other characters actually downplayed as not that big a deal - not least his girlfriend.

I'd also like to stand up on a chair and applaud Jeff for allowing Sophie to lie about him being controlling - he took that on the chin, with nary a complaint, but fuck me if that isn't extenuating circumstances behind the relationship being rocky at that point (an issue caused entirely by Mark).

And let it be said, at the end he comes back, he admits guilt, he pleads, he risks a brooming and losing a new friend simply to re-establish his relationship with the love of his life. I'd say the end justifies the means there.

Whereas Mark simply will destroy whatever he has to to get whatever he wants. Cut Jeff a break - Sophie did, after all.

Don't be a Mark - who suggested Jeff was a domestic abuser just to prove himself right. Sophie says herself, even when upset and at her most negative, it was a passionate, loving relationship. Not my words. The words of Sophie Chapman.

Careful ye who cast the first stone (at Jeff)!!

jeff 2-0

mrpupkin

Jeff apologism at its worst

New Jack

Quote from: mrpupkin on August 03, 2018, 06:46:30 PM
Jeff apologism at its worst

If this is the only defence against presenting Jeff's side, it's going to be a landslide!

Jeff 3-0

Quote from: Captain Z on August 03, 2018, 06:12:21 PM
My favourite Jeff moment is the episode where Mark is put in charge of 'Project Zeus' and pleads for Jeff's notes despite aggressively dismissing them earlier. First time I watched it I really believed he was about to hand them over but instead he pulls his middle finger out of his bag with a perfect shit-eating grin. Definitely on Jeff's side in that episode.

One of the best Jeff moments. Redressing the karmic balance there, in a robust and comic way, our Jeff

jeff 4-0

"he pleads, he risks a brooming and losing a new friend" - I love how you insinuate a brooming is perfectly normal, like it's not uncommon to come across a grown man thrusting a broom handle and screaming at you. Maybe Mark really is the psycho.

St_Eddie

Mark, Jez, Sophie and Jeff are all terrible people.  What's all this nonsense about arguing over who's the least rotten out of a bunch of bad apples?

QDRPHNC

Quote from: LynnBenfield69 on August 03, 2018, 09:30:59 PM
"he pleads, he risks a brooming and losing a new friend" - I love how you insinuate a brooming is perfectly normal, like it's not uncommon to come across a grown man thrusting a broom handle and screaming at you. Maybe Mark really is the psycho.

This was one of my observations about the first series, there is some dialogue that hints at Mark being a bit psycho, specifically when Jez says, "You're an animal Corrigan. You have to keep your tie done up to eleven, otherwise all this grey ugly office envy sludge will just spill out and drown you..."

As things wore one, Mark just turned into David Mitchell, so that was one avenue that was left unexplored, much like learning Jeremy used to be a nurse, but becomes thicker and thicker as the series progress.

j_u_d_a_s

Just popping in here to say that S1E3 - 'On the Pull' is one of the best crafted half hours of any sitcom. It just flows so naturally and is filled with great lines. It's really the series at its prime and has an inherent "otherness" to it that was lacking from the later series. Even when you think they've "won" it just turns out to be a pyrrhic victory for both of them.


As for Mark acting out, I suppose part of me assumes most of the over the top behavior is simply because it's a channel four sitcom and has to lay it on thick throughout the early part of the run.

I like the mid-late period small c conservative Mark as it's far more true to life. His evil is (almost) entirely internal and his character is uncomfortably close to any of us approaching middle age and beyond. They are all shit people but so are we and that's the genius of the show.

Dr Rock

This time I'm too distracted by which shots might make the 'nobody's POV' rule. Is there a list of disputed scenes outside of the Quantocks(SP?) one? What about the flashback of Mark and Sophie in the cupboard which is a flashback scene as I mentioned? Are there any other flashback scenes?

St_Eddie

Quote from: Dr Rock on August 03, 2018, 10:11:21 PM
This time I'm too distracted by which shots might make the 'nobody's POV' rule. Is there a list of disputed scenes outside of the Quantocks(SP?) one? What about the flashback of Mark and Sophie in the cupboard which is a flashback scene as I mentioned? Are there any other flashback scenes?

I don't know about any other flashback scenes but the establishing shots of, for example, Jez and Mark's flat, are a bit of a cheat.  Also, the last episode has a POV shot from Jez and Mark's TV but that's purposeful, of course.

Lemming

#77
S1E3 really is the finest episode of the show. It's Peep Show's equivalent of Bottom's "Gas" - it exemplifies everything that works about the show and the characters, and also manages to be incessantly hilarious, start to finish, for a full half an hour. It's a particularly special episode because it achieves an atmosphere of alienation, anxiety and cringing strangeness that no other episode ever manages to come close to. Many episodes in series 2 rival it for sheer joke quality and consistency, but nothing matches the weirdly hellish atmosphere of the house party and the bowling alley.

"HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE FUCKING SHOOOES. FUCK YOUR SHOES."

I'm down with the Jeff apologism to an extent. I usually try to watch shows (or movies, or videogames, or anything else) from the antagonist's point of view and doing so can surprisingly often reveal the protagonist(s) to be partially or wholly in the wrong.

Careful not to go too far into Jeff apologism though. Let's not forget that, no matter how bad Mark is, or how much legitimate reason Jeff has to hate him, Jeff is still a complete and total wanker. Even if we might end up agreeing that Mark is possibly worse.

I do feel bad for Jeff at the end of series 2 when he's crying in the room after breaking up with Sophie. I always wonder if you're meant to be on Mark's side there and see it as a kind of "haha fuck you jeff" bit of catharsis, or if you're meant to sympathise with Jeff.

Phil_A

Quote from: Dr Rock on August 03, 2018, 10:11:21 PM
This time I'm too distracted by which shots might make the 'nobody's POV' rule. Is there a list of disputed scenes outside of the Quantocks(SP?) one? What about the flashback of Mark and Sophie in the cupboard which is a flashback scene as I mentioned? Are there any other flashback scenes?

Jeremy's flashbacks to The Bad Thing have both him and Superhans in the same shot, so I think we can assume flashbacks break the "first person" rule.

FLOSS IS BOSS!!

Gregory Torso

Is Jeff a wanker though? Or does he just look and act like one? We don't get to hear his internal monologue so only judge him on how Mark is viewing him. I'd love to have seen an episode of Peep Show where we only hear Jeff and Sophie's thoughts and see what they see, how they view Mark and Jez.

Lemming

I think the episode where he befriends Jeremy gives us the final say on whether or not he's a wanker. "Man was meant to do two things - kill and bone", and then right after that he cheats on Sophie (I'm pretty sure the script implies sex rather than just kissing, so Chief Jeff Apologist New Jack's defence earlier on this page might not entirely stand up), and then disowns Jeremy for accidentally letting the truth out.

However, as long as we're having a Jeff-centric rewatch, I'd like to submit that by the later series - maybe the sixth or so - he's shedded most of his wanker traits and become probably one of the more strangely likeable characters in the show. I remember a scene where Mark has just been promoted to a position very slightly above Jeff and starts taunting him about possible bonus money, and the audience is clearly meant to side with the exasperated Jeff rather than the power-tripping Mark.

It's also hard not to take his side when he twists the knife into Mark about anything regarding the baby, given that Mark does fuck-all during the pregnancy while Jeff is clearly the child's real father in every sense except biological.

EDIT: I just looked up the script for S2E5 and Jeremy just says that Jeff "got off" with the woman at the pub, which is less of a strong implication than I remembered. Maybe the earlier defence actually does stand up.

Gregory Torso

Quote from: QDRPHNC on August 03, 2018, 09:43:07 PM
there is some dialogue that hints at Mark being a bit psycho

He goes pretty mental in episode 5, pissing in Barbara's desk, and getting referred to a therapist and then stalking Sophie in her garden,.

Dr Rock

Quote from: Phil_A on August 03, 2018, 10:47:49 PM
Jeremy's flashbacks to The Bad Thing have both him and Superhans in the same shot, so I think we can assume flashbacks break the "first person" rule.

FLOSS IS BOSS!!

They bloody do an all, this POV thing is out the window.


I forgot this was a two episode a time rewatch, I've spun right ahead to the middle of series two, sorry. I'll stop for a while, it's very overfamiliar at this point anyway. OBSERVATION/QUESTION: The series is full if smug wankers, why is Johnson different to Jeff or Gwin who owns the stupid house where they naked swim any different?

Scrapey Fish

Quote from: Gregory Torso on August 04, 2018, 04:47:54 PM
Is Jeff a wanker though? Or does he just look and act like one? We don't get to hear his internal monologue so only judge him on how Mark is viewing him. I'd love to have seen an episode of Peep Show where we only hear Jeff and Sophie's thoughts and see what they see, how they view Mark and Jez.
This is an interesting conmment because I've sometimes wondered whether you could argue that Sophie's character change later on in the run is not actually her suddenly changing but simply Mark perceiving a different side of her now that he's not hopelessly obsessed with her.

I wonder if you could even put Dobby's character change down to Mark's changing circumstances. She becomes "cooler" as Mark becomes more possessive and insecure, and starts to view her in a different light.

I'm probably giving the writers too much credit though.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Gregory Torso on August 04, 2018, 04:47:54 PM
...I'd love to have seen an episode of Peep Show where we only hear Jeff and Sophie's thoughts and see what they see, how they view Mark and Jez.

There's a five minute special feature on one of the Peep Show DVDs which is more or less exactly this.  It's called 'Sophie's Peep Show' or some such.

Quote from: Gregory Torso on August 04, 2018, 05:53:07 PM
He goes pretty mental in episode 5, pissing in Barbara's desk...

Yeah, that was Mark in full on Robert Durst mode.

New Jack

#85
Quote from: Lemming on August 04, 2018, 05:09:41 PM

EDIT: I just looked up the script for S2E5 and Jeremy just says that Jeff "got off" with the woman at the pub, which is less of a strong implication than I remembered. Maybe the earlier defence actually does stand up.

Chief Jeff Realist checking in! I'm glad you investigated and found that addendum. I won't repeat myself but I would like to suggest that, like Saz later which may be another sore point for Jeffophobes, we can simply conclude the females are exercising a choice by the end of these respective episodes that we must accept. Even if Mark doesn't, which informs a lot of the Jeff-denialism and Jeffophobia we are simply flooded with. (Jez conversely calls him a solid gold mate!)

As the series goes on, I wonder what Mark thinks Jeff's motivation for his benevolent actions is. I can only assume it's spite! Would you save your broken ex and form a new family out of spite? Mark would marry out of social embarassment, but I think he merely projects his own worst qualities.

Vote Jeff.

... I need a job in politics. Next episode: Johnson is Mark's Tyler Durden. Jez knows of Mark's affliction so merely humours this, so as not to disrupt the maniac. Hmm, nah, it's Jeff or nothing.

Ferris

By the end, Jeff is definitely an ok chap. He seems genuinely a bit unhappy at revealing the baby's sex to Mark (although is that just acting ahhh do you not see).

He's definitely a wanker in the first few seasons, though.

Gregory Torso

Yes after watching another episode I've gone back to the Jeff Is Cunt camp

Dr Rock

Yes I entertained the theory that he's not a wanker but he is. Mark and Jez do much worse stuff than he does though, he doesn't piss in anyone's drawer.

Ferris

Quote from: Dr Rock on August 05, 2018, 02:46:23 PM
Yes I entertained the theory that he's not a wanker but he is. Mark and Jez do much worse stuff than he does though, he doesn't piss in anyone's drawer.


...or does he? Mark's crimes were concealed. Is it so far-fetched to assume similar crimes were also covered up by another villain in the same universe?

(And then I go and spoil it all by saying something stupid like 'I like you')