Brexit Discussion Thread number 3

[Paul Calf]

No they didn't. The EU referendum was a campaign promise of the Tories for 2015. It was post coalition.

They could, though, have prevented it by not propping up the Tories and their murderous austerity bullshit.

I'll say it again: the Lib Dems are not left wing in any way at all.

[Sebastian Cobb]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/18/rightwing-thinktanks-unveil-radical-plan-for-us-uk-brexit-trade-deal-nhs

United state of that.

[Paul Calf]

Well, yeah. Of course. That's been the plan all along.

[Howj Begg]

And here are the people your Leave vote was cast to enrich:

https://www.leavemeansleave.eu/who-we-are/

Them and their descendants. The new aristocracy.

[Cuellar]

Leave me an sleave

[jobotic]

Hey Biggy - this is what you wanted right? This is who you want to run the country?

See why I don't trust your socialist credentials?

Every cunt that voted for this is beneath contempt, but mostly the ones who won't suffer as a result of it.

[Zetetic]

Independent reporting that our government will propose introducing more checks at the Irish Sea.

[Neville Chamberlain]

Every cunt that voted for this is beneath contempt

This is an opinion I've gamely tried to resist for a long time now, but I can't any more because it's so fucking true.

Just call the whole fucking shitshow off. I think the majority of the population will be fucking relieved.

[pancreas]

Labour conference will be interesting. 100 motions against Brexit have been submitted by CLPs. It seems to me that the very least that will come out of it is a commitment to a people's vote if a general election doesn't happen (by date x). An outside chance that Remain becomes party policy.

[jobotic]

This is an opinion I've gamely tried to resist for a long time now, but I can't any more because it's so fucking true.

Just call the whole fucking shitshow off. I think the majority of the population will be fucking relieved.

I will rephrase it - every cunt who voted for this and is now refusing to admit they are wrong or are going to be raking it in, is beneath contempt. They're either fucking stupid or in a position to make a lot of money out what is to come.

If you are one of these fuck you. If you are enabling these fuck you.

https://www.leavemeansleave.eu/who-we-are/

[Howj Begg]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45586010

jolly good

[Fambo Number Mive]

May will have to find an alternate plan, won't she? Or will she just go for no deal?

[Howj Begg]

May will have to find an alternate plan, won't she? Or will she just go

Ideally the latter

[Huxleys Babkins]

May will have to find an alternate plan, won't she? Or will she just go for no deal?

Nobody is going for no deal without parliament's say so.

[Captain Z]

Surely there's an opportunity for Noel Edmonds to recoup his Lloyds losses with a tie-in TV show here.

[Howj Begg]

"an almost unprecedented humiliation"

[Huxleys Babkins]

The EU only told us a million times since 2015 that they'd never countenance anything that would challenge the integrity of the single market and customs union, so I am shocked that they've rejected a plan that challenges the integrity of the single market and customs union.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I will rephrase it - every cunt who voted for this and is now refusing to admit they are wrong or are going to be raking it in, is beneath contempt.

So despite the fact you voted Remain to try and protect many who will certainly be the cunts you reference above, they are beneath contempt? A twisted duty of care, if I may say.

I don't have contempt for people who were not expecting to have to become informed on the EU and who were granted a superficially simplistic vote they couldn't possibly have been expected to know the full implications of answering. They have been manipulated, belittled and goaded and are now expected to be further humiliated. I don't think that's fair.

Save your contempt for:

- Remainers who didn't bother to turn up on the day
- Powerful people who manipulated those above
- People who still earnestly believe it is the right thing to do

[mothman]

It's going to be no deal. Anyone who thinks saner heads will prevail is fooling themselves. Equally sane heads thought the vote would go Remain in the first place. I'm not one of those who rant about elites who hold the common man in contempt or anything, but there does seem to be this condescension that It Won't Go That Far, that The Adults Will Sort It Out. But that's not going to happen. The Tories have descended into a sort of collective insanity. Labour is paralysed, stuck between an unwillingness to go against The Will Of The People and a pipedream that the ensuing chaos will give them the support to enact the real change they desire. As for the Lib Dems... who cares? So there's nobody coming to save us. We're screwed.

[jobotic]

So despite the fact you voted Remain to try and protect many who will certainly be the cunts you reference above, they are beneath contempt? A twisted duty of care, if I may say.

I don't have contempt for people who were not expecting to have to become informed on the EU and who were granted a superficially simplistic vote they couldn't possibly have been expected to know the full implications of answering. They have been manipulated, belittled and goaded and are now expected to be further humiliated. I don't think that's fair.

Save your contempt for:

- Remainers who didn't bother to turn up on the day
- Powerful people who manipulated those above
- People who still earnestly believe it is the right thing to do

Yes you're right. That's also what I meant really. Just rather angry and inarticulate.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Labour is paralysed, stuck between an unwillingness to go against The Will Of The People and a pipedream that the ensuing chaos will give them the support to enact the real change they desire.

That's a take on it. But it is a delicate position and my take so far is it has been delicately handled by Labour.

I think there's enough evidence to show that they've been gradually moving position towards Remain or Brexit in name-only as the months have gone on since the referendum and put down markers as they have done so, which they can refer back to if/when challenged.

I'm reasonably convinced they will hold out for a critical mass to be reached where a) there is a new election where they can either put themselves forward as 'the only party capable of seeing through Brexit' or b) if the mood is right, stand on a 2nd referendum platform - which the Tories will never be able to offer - which they know centrists and Remainers who hate Corbyn will be forced to vote Labour in order to get, and which waivering/regretful leavers will lap at the chance.

That could result in a parliamentary majority for Labour. Not only is it not far-fetched, I would argue it is likely. So your 'paralysis' would be fruitful.

[mothman]

Y'know what? I hope so. But then again that could be more of the same, more of the saner heads hypothesis.

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

What is the "Canada-style" deal that the Hard Brexiters want? Obviously it must be something horrible, but what are they actually advocating?

[Howj Begg]

What is the "Canada-style" deal that the Hard Brexiters want? Obviously it must be something horrible, but what are they actually advocating?

I'm guessing favourable deals with NO FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT above all, but I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will fill in the details.

[Howj Begg]

Did we talk about this yet?

LONDON - Liam Fox is planning to use controversial "Henry VIII" powers to scrap European food standards in order to pave the way for a trade deal with the US after Brexit.

Theresa May's government has insisted that they will not water down EU regulations which currently prohibit the sale of products such as chlorinated chicken and hormone-injected beef in Britain.

However, Fox and Crawford Falconer, the UK's chief trade negotiation adviser, have privately discussed rewriting UK food standards through the upcoming Trade Bill, a source in Fox's Department for International Trade told Business Insider.

The Trade Secretary plans to use statutory instruments which allow the government to rewrite parts of legislation without a vote in parliament, in order to alter the bill once it has been voted on by MPs.

Fox's plans were confirmed by another government source as well as two sources who work closely with his department.

"Nothing is completely off the table. We are going to keep the same high level of health and safety standards but we are on course to negotiate with the US for an FTA and that will require compromise," a government source said

https://nordic.businessinsider.com/liam-fox-trade-deal-scrap-european-union-food-standards-after-brexit-2018-9?r=US&IR=T

[Zetetic]

But then again that could be more of the same, more of the saner heads hypothesis.

So what's the suggested mitigation to this risk?

As far as I can see - depending on your fortune - it's:
- Get some savings out of GBP
- Get some savings out of the UK
- Have some food in the freezer and in cans to help buffer a few weeks stupidity
- Obtain citizenship of another EU member state

If you're not in a position to manage those, then I don't know what else you can do.

[Paul Calf]

Did we talk about this yet?

https://nordic.businessinsider.com/liam-fox-trade-deal-scrap-european-union-food-standards-after-brexit-2018-9?r=US&IR=T

"Vote Leave and import poor-quality food from a country thousands of miles away whose standards and quality are governed by mega-scale agriculture and processing companies rather than, you know, the ones so near you can drive to them in a day and which are celebrated internationally for their food."

[Huxleys Babkins]

Y'know what? I hope so. But then again that could be more of the same, more of the saner heads hypothesis.

No matter what happens, the ERGites don't have the numbers to get No Deal through parliament. Labour won't back it, the Tory moderates won't back it.

[Paul Calf]

Won't No Deal just happen if the government does nothing about it? It's the default position isn't it? It's why Theresa May was hustled into doing Article 50 without any sort of plan.

[Huxleys Babkins]

Won't No Deal just happen if the government does nothing about it? It's the default position isn't it? It's why Theresa May was hustled into doing Article 50 without any sort of plan.

Yes it will.

But the good news is that the government is bound (thanks to the Miller case) to bring the result of the negotiations back to parliament to vote on. We'll know by the October summit, November by the latest where we stand which gives parliament 4-5 months of lead time to do something before we're in danger of actually crashing out in March.

We could still crash out, of course. But we won't be sleepwalking into it.