Brexit Discussion Thread number 3

[Paul Calf]

I want to vote for somebody for more than just that they're the least worst option.

I've been doing that for 17 years. Yesterday, I renewed my Labour Party membership with pride and hope for the first time in a long time.

I (and I think others) am seriously interested in what you think is wrong with the current lradership.

[Huxleys Babkins]

Completely unrelated to the above conversation, here's the Shadow Chancellor talking absolute fucking bollocks about Brexit:

https://twitter.com/damocrat/status/1044941838103252995?s=11

[Paul Calf]

Fuck's sake. What is it with this blind spot they have? We can't have SM access without FOM. FOM is good for Britain and good for Europe. Make the case.

[Dr Rock]

He's carefully saying he wants a 'strong relationship' with FOM. That's not the same of complete Freedom Of Movement.

[Paul Calf]

No, it isn't. And 'no it isn't' is the EU's position too.

It really bothers me that they're laying traps for themselves on this.

[Blue Jam]

Ladies and gentlemen, our wealthy First World nation now now has a Food Supplies Minister:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/26/uk-appoints-food-supplies-minister-amid-fears-of-no-deal-brexit

[mothman]

I've been doing that for 17 years. Yesterday, I renewed my Labour Party membership with pride and hope for the first time in a long time.

I (and I think others) am seriously interested in what you think is wrong with the current lradership.

I'm glad that people feel like you do. As for why I feel like I do... I need to think of a way to articulate it. I'll get back to you.

[Paul Calf]

Ladies and gentlemen, our wealthy First World nation now now has a Food Supplies Minister:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/26/uk-appoints-food-supplies-minister-amid-fears-of-no-deal-brexit

Not an unelected bureaucrat in charge of policy and vital national infrastructure? Surely?

[Replies From View]

I'm glad that people feel like you do. As for why I feel like I do... I need to think of a way to articulate it. I'll get back to you.

Please don't disregard this, which was the crux of my response:

A vote for the Green Party now is an admission that you only want to vote in protest, never to actually change anything.  If you want to complain about treating things as a game while people's lives are at risk, point your finger at that.

It's probably also worth my pointing out that of all the people in positions of power or potential power, Corbyn is the one who is least in it for the sake of power itself.

[Johnny Yesno]

Don't for one second imagine that I ... know what I want, or want to do.

Do you seriously expect Labour to develop policies to suit this kind of thinking? They already triangulated themselves into irrelevance prior to Corbyn. This may come across as harsh, but the problem here is you.

But I'm not a LINO. I grew up in a socialist-leaning household. And yet I don't feel I have buy-in into Corbyn's Labour. Perhaps it's a tall order, a hopeless pipe dream, but I want to vote for somebody for more than just that they're the least worst option.

As Paul Calf already expressed, welcome to our world. This is the first time in years where a party is actually offering us what we want. They are a good option, not merely the least worst.

[mothman]

I'm not completely self-obsessed. Just mostly. I don't expect them to tailor themselves to my requirements. I'm just not feeling anything that's compelling me to make that crucial buy-in. And I know I'm not the only one. But I am at least slightly likely to end up voting Labour. There are possibly millions who still won't go that far. They did for Blair, much at it pains me (and will doubtless enrage others).

[Johnny Yesno]

I'm not completely self-obsessed. Just mostly. I don't expect them to tailor themselves to my requirements. I'm just not feeling anything that's compelling me to make that crucial buy-in.

How about getting homeless people off the streets as a priority? Is that not a statement of intent to stop this country from becoming a hateful shithole?

[Fambo Number Mive]

Johnson wants a "Super Canada" free trade deal: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45673214

[Paul Calf]

^

CETA, which was first proposed 10 years ago and accepted in principle 5 years ago and still isn't fully implemented?

Sure, Boris. Three months. Tick tock.

[Zetetic]

"If you walk around the corridors in Brussels, you hear all sorts of mutterings about how the UK must be ­penalised for leaving the EU, and..."

I think if I found Dominic Raab wandering aimlessly in a corridor, I'd certainly do some dark muttering for a laugh, so this is probably true.

[Bhazor]

Johnson wants a "Super Canada" free trade deal: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45673214

Analysis

By BBC Reality Check correspondent Chris Morris

So that's what he's been upto.

He's gone down hill since he stopped working with Armando.

[Vodka Margarine]

[Replies From View]

Nice.

I was disappointed to scroll across and realise it wasn't by Richard Littlejohn, however.

[Darles Chickens]

If there's any truth in this, God help us all.
https://twitter.com/J_amesp/status/1046828583484821504

Sounds like a big fat conspiracy, but he claims to have sources, although none are cited.

[SteveDave]

If there's any truth in this, God help us all.
https://twitter.com/J_amesp/status/1046828583484821504

Sounds like a big fat conspiracy, but he claims to have sources, although none are cited.

Yeah, this has placed me in a funk. And not in the Bootsy Collins way.

[Johnny Yesno]

If there's any truth in this, God help us all.
https://twitter.com/J_amesp/status/1046828583484821504

Sounds like a big fat conspiracy, but he claims to have sources, although none are cited.

I know it's Alastair Campbell, but: https://alastaircampbell.org/2018/08/the-most-important-book-you-have-never-heard-of-which-helps-understand-rees-mogg-love-of-hard-brexit/

[Darles Chickens]

I know it's Alastair Campbell, but: https://alastaircampbell.org/2018/08/the-most-important-book-you-have-never-heard-of-which-helps-understand-rees-mogg-love-of-hard-brexit/

I would like to read that book. Fucked if I'm gonna pay for it though.

As far as I can tell, the sources for the above Twitter thread seem to be OSINT (open-source intelligence), which appears to just be a fancy way of saying 'collated published/broadcast information'. That being the case, there needn't be a lot of correlation between what has been said in public and what they actually think, so I doubt there's very much substance in those claims.  I mean, for sure there are some far right Brexitheads amongst the Tories who'd like nothing better than a giant tax haven, but that's not to say that this is the Government policy, even covertly so.

[Johnny Yesno]

I would like to read that book. Fucked if I'm gonna pay for it though.

As far as I can tell, the sources for the above Twitter thread seem to be OSINT (open-source intelligence), which appears to just be a fancy way of saying 'collated published/broadcast information'. That being the case, there needn't be a lot of correlation between what has been said in public and what they actually think, so I doubt there's very much substance in those claims.  I mean, for sure there are some far right Brexitheads amongst the Tories who'd like nothing better than a giant tax haven, but that's not to say that this is the Government policy, even covertly so.

Agreed, although it's hard to discern just how much power the far right nutjobs like JRM currently wield in the tory party. Hopefully, not much.

[mothman]

I would like to read that book. Fucked if I'm gonna pay for it though.

Found a PDF. Anybody wants it, PM me.

[Dr Rock]

I know it's Alastair Campbell, but: https://alastaircampbell.org/2018/08/the-most-important-book-you-have-never-heard-of-which-helps-understand-rees-mogg-love-of-hard-brexit/

Jacob Shrugged.

[Johnny Yesno]

Jacob Shrugged.

Ha, spot on. I was starting to believe that the tories would never actually go through with Brexit because of the likely chaos and the fact that nothing has been done to prepare for it, including building the required infrastructure. However, if they are being driven by the interests of fundamentalist disaster capitalists, then it reopens the possibility in a quite terrifying way. I really don't know what to think at this stage.

[Cuellar]

Well it was always meant to be a way to a deregulated utopia* wasn't it? That was UKIP's entire point. End stupid stuff like minimum wages, maternity pay, etc etc

_{*utopia not guaranteed, seller accepts no responsibility in case of dystopia}

[Johnny Yesno]

Well it was always meant to be a way to a deregulated utopia* wasn't it? That was UKIP's entire point. End stupid stuff like minimum wages, maternity pay, etc etc

_{*utopia not guaranteed, seller accepts no responsibility in case of dystopia}

Yes it was. Horrific, huh?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

First published in 1997, shortly before New Labour won the first of our three election victories

Such a tosspot

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

https://www.thepeoplesnewsonline.co.uk/single-post/2018/10/02/mays-time-as-pm-practically-over-as-dup-threaten-to-vote-down-brexit-deal/

Slightly yesterday's news, but:

Analysis from Iwan Doherty- Editor in Chief

May is finished and a clean Brexit looks impossible. The Tory Brexiteers will hope to remove her without forcing a general election but that is a task that they might not have the numbers for, because Tory Leadership elections dictate that there must first be a 'vote of no confidence'. May, has reached a dead end with her Chequers proposals, unless she were to adopt Labour's proposals, and with the fact that her Brexit deal is dead, crucially so is her premiership.

A general election would give both parties serious headaches about their Brexit policy.

Whilst in statements the DUP criticised Corbyn for his apparent republicanism he now may be their only hope of not having a hard Irish border.