Brexit Discussion Thread number 3

[Cuellar]

Yes it was. Horrific, huh?

Yup, grim.

[Blue Jam]

*slow clap*

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45727317

[Cuellar]

Take that metropolitan globalist elites. If you hadn't eaten so much reasonably priced brie you wouldn't need heart medicine.

[Paul Calf]

*slow clap jazz hands*

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45727317

Pff. Project Fear.

[Blue Jam]

The irony is that a lot of the Leave voters dismissing this as project fear are probably the very same people who would have benefited from a new heart attack treatment.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The irony is that a lot of the Leave voters dismissing this as project fear are probably the very same people who would have benefited from a new heart attack treatment.

My thinking too. Although on the plus side all these people will now die and be buried or cremated, while their assets are recovered.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

It's hard to explain. I don't feel like they represent me or have policies that align with my worldview. I still loathe the Tories (I was even shouting at May on the news last night, I believe the words "foul harridan" may have been uttered); the LibDems I will never forgive for their betrayal in 2010. But Corbyn, and Momentum, and all those fucking trade union leaders, McCluskey and his ilk... ugh. So what to do? I don't feel a new centrist party is a realistic avenue. I know that my views are likely to be seen as inimicable to many here. Maybe I'm getting old, too comfortable, perhaps this is how the creeping insidious conservatism of later life sets in. I really don't know what to do. Perhaps Labour are the best chance in the long run. But their current strategy seems to be that the worse things are for the country, the better their chances of attaining power and effecting real change are. But this isn't a game, people's lives are at risk. We don't need a collectivisation famine, a Year Zero, a Cultural Revolution.

No I don't think you're alone in feeling political homeless. Given the shrinking number of voters at each General Election, I think political anomie will soon become the country's default setting. Most people aren't ideologues. They don't want JRM in charge. Nor do they desire a Mr. Corbyn.

[Paul Calf]

Most people aren't ideologues. They don't want JRM in charge. Nor do they desire a Mr. Corbyn.

Source: pulled out of Sony Walkman Prophecies' arse this afternoon.

Would it be rude to ask what you *do* want?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

"no home to go to wah"

, I think political anomie will soon become the country's default setting. Most people aren't ideologues.

2001 - 59.4% turnout
2005 - 61% turnout
2010 - 65% turnout
2015 - 66.4% turnout
2017 - 68.8% turnout

Not the view of the electorate at large apparently. That or unlike you two whining on they realise they simply need to vote for the party that best represents their views and desires even if it doesn't do so to your precise demands

[mothman]

Oh, vell, I'm just dis Centrist Dad, you know?

Hank asked this question in the May thread:

Sorry, bit out of the loop. Why do May and her ilk insist on Brexit? It's clearly going to be a disaster. So the only reason I could see would be that they're securing cushy private sector jobs. But the private sector and investment banks are against it, aren't they? I know Goldman Sachs etc have been moving office to Frankfurt. I could see an aristocratic dipshit like Rees Mogg truly believing in Brexit in his Hapsburg clay brain, but all of them?

It's hard to explain, really. Ill-repressed guilt for the Thatcher defenestration causing them to latch on to one of her last great batshit-crazy U-turns (from architect of Britain in Yerp, to Eurosceptic queen)? Some universal bad experience (the details vary, but the theme remains the same) where their inate desire to do something classically Evil Tory (likely to do with employment law) ran slap bang up against EU law?

[olliebean]

The irony is that a lot of the Leave voters dismissing this as project fear are probably the very same people who would have benefited from a new heart attack treatment.

Although to be fair, the rest of us will probably benefit from them not getting it.

[Replies From View]

No I don't think you're alone in feeling political homeless. Given the shrinking number of voters at each General Election, I think political anomie will soon become the country's default setting. Most people aren't ideologues. They don't want JRM in charge. Nor do they desire a Mr. Corbyn.

Okay, well political disengagement happens when all the parties come across as roughly the same thing, and are clearly working in the interests of billionaire donors rather than ordinary people.

If people truly are disengaging because a man could feasibly be Prime Minister who represents ordinary people and isn't obviously a power-hungry tosspot, then I don't know what to say.  My suspicion is that nothing will please you because you are simply always uninterested in these issues.  So not so much disengagement, as a lack of concern or interest.

If my hunch is wrong then please prove me wrong.  In any case, quite how anyone can claim to feel "politically homeless" when pretty much every media outlet shares your centre-right ideals is astounding.

[Johnny Yesno]

To be fair, I think Peter Hitchens types are politically homeless at the moment.

[Howj Begg]

If you live next door to a very famous and wealthy British celebrity you're certainly not homeless anyway, as thousands of British people are, but hey who cares about that anyway, I've got mine Jack

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45750023

Instead of waiting for the psychos at the wheel to act normally, how about the EU simply decide to shitcan the Tories in favour of Labour?

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

"no home to go to wah"

2001 - 59.4% turnout
2005 - 61% turnout
2010 - 65% turnout
2015 - 66.4% turnout
2017 - 68.8% turnout

Not the view of the electorate at large apparently. That or unlike you two whining on they realise they simply need to vote for the party that best represents their views and desires even if it doesn't do so to your precise demands

True enough. But looking at the overall trend, we're still quite a bit behind the 75 percentage-ish average from the early 1960s to the early 1990s. Go back to the 1950s and you're looking at a turnout fluctuating between the high 70s low 80s. I'll acknowledge that I was a bit naughty in saying the voter turnout had decreased election to the election though.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

Okay, well political disengagement happens when all the parties come across as roughly the same thing, and are clearly working in the interests of billionaire donors rather than ordinary people.

If people truly are disengaging because a man could feasibly be Prime Minister who represents ordinary people and isn't obviously a power-hungry tosspot, then I don't know what to say.  My suspicion is that nothing will please you because you are simply always uninterested in these issues.  So not so much disengagement, as a lack of concern or interest.

If my hunch is wrong then please prove me wrong.  In any case, quite how anyone can claim to feel "politically homeless" when pretty much every media outlet shares your centre-right ideals is astounding.

But this is where you get carried away you see. Just because someone has your best interests at heart doesn't mean they know what they're doing or won't make a huge mess of things. Maduro is a very nice man too. Lives in a modest bungalow, don't you know. Or at least so the Guardian were effusively reporting when he got elected. But, crucially, his policies haven't helped the average Venezuelan. He presides over a country which still has to smuggle in basic goods like food and drugs through the back market. And he's a bit of a authoritarian so I hear. Not adverse to surrounding himself with men in camo when necessary, which appears to be necessary quite often. But all that doesn't matter of course because he's an ex trade union leader and a member of the working class. Why get worked up over the trivial matter of what he's done in office? Isn't it really what you say that counts?

Here's the thing. I have a hunch that, like a lot of people on here, you're less concerned with outcomes than you are with people being nice and making noises about equality. All fine so long as you're buffered and protected from shocks to the market and rising unemployment. But for those of us without savings and in precarious lines of work, such a situation is about as appealing as JRM and his fwee twade lunacy. You can't camp out in the bedroom of your 20s forever.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

If you live next door to a very famous and wealthy British celebrity you're certainly not homeless anyway, as thousands of British people are, but hey who cares about that anyway, I've got mine Jack

Great segway into a pointless bit of moral grand-standing there. Just leaping on the word 'homeless' (obviously used in the figurative, non-pejorative sense) to shake your fist at the sky about horrible people who live in homes. Sure mate. Okay. I guess I'll see you down the local soup kitchen later yeah?

[Huxleys Babkins]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45750023

Instead of waiting for the psychos at the wheel to act normally, how about the EU simply decide to shitcan the Tories in favour of Labour?

Because the optics would be really, really bad.

[Replies From View]

True enough. But looking at the overall trend, we're still quite a bit behind the 75 percentage-ish average from the early 1960s to the early 1990s. Go back to the 1950s and you're looking at a turnout fluctuating between the high 70s low 80s. I'll acknowledge that I was a bit naughty in saying the voter turnout had decreased election to the election though.

Seriously though, imagine looking at the Tories and Labour now and thinking "these parties are all the same; I am so disillusioned with politics and I am paying so much attention."

[Replies From View]

Here's the thing. I have a hunch that, like a lot of people on here, you're less concerned with outcomes than you are with people being nice and making noises about equality. All fine so long as you're buffered and protected from shocks to the market and rising unemployment. But for those of us without savings and in precarious lines of work, such a situation is about as appealing as JRM and his fwee twade lunacy. You can't camp out in the bedroom of your 20s forever.

Cool so you are inventing shit about people in order to have something to argue with.  Even though you must know, since you are going down a personal-attack rabbit hole, that I work in the public sector with children with special education needs for £1000 per month, am renting in London, and have no savings at all.

How interesting that you would make the conscious decision to do that.

[jobotic]

CORBYN BE LIKE VENEZUELA

[Replies From View]

CORBYN BE LIKE VENEZUELA

Something already explained to him at length, and that he is also choosing to ignore.

[Paul Calf]

...the optics...

...is a phrase that needs to die in a ditch.

[FredNurke]

I immediately think of this when I hear it:


/
"I'LL RIP OUT YOUR OPTICS!"

[Howj Begg]

Great segway into a pointless bit of moral grand-standing there. Just leaping on the word 'homeless' (obviously used in the figurative, non-pejorative sense) to shake your fist at the sky about horrible people who live in homes. Sure mate. Okay. I guess I'll see you down the local soup kitchen later yeah?

I guess as a person who has a home I'll see you down the voting booth putting your 'x' for the party that has pledged to help the homeless in a systematic way via the institutions of government, rather than with relatively useless and fake individual acts of charity, yeah?*

I'm mostly shaking my fists over your shitty contributions to this site


*your primary use for which seems to be moral grandstanding on politics threads, incidentally

[Huxleys Babkins]

...is a phrase that needs to die in a ditch.

If you've got a better one I'm all ears/eyes.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Try using one that makes sense.

[Huxleys Babkins]

Try using one that makes sense.

If you think the EU refusing to negotiate with the government, whilst simultaneously endorsing the opposition will do anything other than galvanise the Leave vote to support the Tories, then I really don't know what to say.

[Replies From View]

I'm not convinced that the EU or any of its members would outwardly support any particular political party.  Do they normally do such things?