Author Topic: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation  (Read 56925 times)

Z

  • The movie, not the TV series, or the book
Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« on: July 26, 2018, 09:33:21 PM »

Reached page 100 again



Topics:
Is Raw the shittest it has ever been?
G1 Climax?
Isn't Stephanie a great bunch of lads for doing all this women's empowerment stuff all by herself?

Utter Shit

  • Snotty Bumstead
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2018, 09:42:03 PM »
I started watching again a few years ago (the Wrestlemania where Bryan won) and I can honestly say there hasn't been a single period where I was consistently enjoying it since then. The odd decent PPV and plenty of good individual moments, sure, but the average level is fucking terrible and has been for ages. I essentially don't watch at all now - most PPVs I will skip through the next day on the network (even if you don't watch the current product, it's still good value for the back catalogue IMO, I certainly feel like I get my money's worth each month with the amount I go back into the archives) to see if there's anything worth seeing, but I don't watch any of the TV at the moment. I get more enjoyment on a weekly basis from Progress, and even then I mostly skip through on-demand to keep up with storylines.

What is generally accepted to be the best modern period? Around the time when Punk was running things? As much as I've loved WWE across three distinct eras (early 90s as a kid, early 2000s as an obsessive teenager and the modern era from the Mania I mentioned earlier), the only time I've felt like it was consistently excellent, must-see TV on a weekly basis was from around April 2000 when I got back into it, until maybe June or so the next year, when it became clear the Invasion stuff was going nowhere. Has it ever been better than that? I've heard the start of the Attitude Era, though fondly remembered and having tons of great stuff, also has a lot of dross? For me, the joy of WWE is in the moments that have built up over the years rather than it being consistently good.

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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2018, 09:44:25 PM »
For me it was that period of the orginal Shield run, the Wyatts and Team Hell No, doing those multi man matches. also hall of Pain Mark Henry and Bryans money in the bank cash in.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2018, 09:46:20 PM »

Reached page 100 again



Topics:
Is Raw the shittest it has ever been?
G1 Climax?
Isn't Stephanie a great bunch of lads for doing all this women's empowerment stuff all by herself?


Jesus, she REALLY looks like her dad.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2018, 09:48:15 PM »
Really enjoying the G1 Climax, the highlight of my wrestling years since it was available to watch live/near-as - 2013. Some of the run-in/ref bump stuff has become a bit tiring but they manage to keep it, at its core, about really good pro-wrestling. There's things I'd change - more guests, some more legit-feeling workers - but it's the best thing out there.

Z

  • The movie, not the TV series, or the book
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2018, 09:52:33 PM »
What is generally accepted to be the best modern period? Around the time when Punk was running things?
This was about 6 weeks long. They rushed it to get a Summerslam payday and then scrapped it entirely to try and push ADR before a Mexico tour.

Smackdown had a hot spell in 2009 iirc between Punk, Jeff and Edge; and Jericho being cross brand iirc. Other than that, the totally unintentional gradual push towards Bryan headlining Wrestlemania might be it?

BeardFaceMan

  • Safely ensconced on top of the bathroom cabinet
    • mixes'n'mashes
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2018, 10:18:45 PM »
Punk leaving the company with the title was the last time I got excited about WWE, they had Punk gatecrashing HHHs appearance at comicon and stuff, they were getting genuine positive mainstream media attention, things were looking great, like there might be actual change. Then they brought him back too early, introduced Kevin Nash, skinny fat ass, and it all went to shit very fast, its unbelievable how quickly and how much WWE can fuck things up completely when it looks like they're doing someyning right. I'm convinced now that the succesful ideas they have are pure luck and more down to the performers than anyone else running things.

up_the_hampipe

  • Crowd appeaser
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2018, 10:45:46 PM »
This was about 6 weeks long.

Punk was dominating the show as a heel from mid-2012 to early 2013, even if he wasn't being recognised in that many main events. One of my favourite heel runs actually. In fact, I found him disrupting Lawler's big comeback to mock his heart attack to be beautifully tasteless. Lawler is a nonce anyway so who cares.

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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2018, 10:49:35 PM »
This seemd like a special moment.


New Jack

  • Biggy laughed at my family deaths; won't say sorry
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2018, 10:41:20 AM »
WMXXX is my favourite anything of the last few years

Punk's pipebomb was cool and all. I liked the Shield era. Guess you can stretch all that out. WMXXX probably is the end of an era - Bryan pushed, but Taker beaten, Punk gone, HHH basically a part timer doing a job (finally).

I watch old episodes regularly (sometimes cause of the Lapsed Fan, sometimes for fun - currently watching the Raws after WMX7) and like to compare.

Might be because it's when I jumped back into wrestling but Smackdown 02-03 is sublime for me. The Smackdown Six - fantastic matches.

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2018, 10:43:13 AM »
The first six months of Smackdown after the most recent brand split was actually really fun. It had a really strong, likable roster and was good at creating new stars out of people previously misused (the Heath Slater & Rhyno tag title run being a surprising stand-out).

New Jack

  • Biggy laughed at my family deaths; won't say sorry
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2018, 10:49:08 AM »
Smackdown is historically better than Raw IMO!

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2018, 10:56:18 AM »
Smackdown is historically better than Raw IMO!

Probably.

It's the 1000th episode of Smackdown in October too.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2018, 11:43:13 AM »
Smackdown has always been the better show if you enjoy actual wrestling. They always filled it with matches as nothing was ever booked to happen storyline-wise there. Whenever they did a roster split all the smaller workers that Vince didn't give a shit about were dumped there and they'd have a much better show than the chosen 'superstars' on Raw. Now that Smackdown is over an hour shorter than Raw it's always easier to sit through.

Moribunderast

  • What is your place in my glorification?
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2018, 11:49:13 AM »
So what wrestling do people on this thread generally watch these days? I'm an NJPW convert since the most recent Wrestle Kingdom and I watch Lucha Underground when it's on. NXT is a must and this week I've procured Impact to see if all the recent good reviews are correct. That's too much wrestling for me considering I also like to waste my time with plenty of non-wrestling telly, films, books and video games but I try to keep up anyway.

This season of Lucha Underground feels a bit aimless. It's still decent but the show feels lifeless and past it's prime - maybe down to the new venue? It just doesn't have the same energy despite still having some great characters, fun stories and decent wrestling. NXT is clearly the best weekly show going around and I find it weird when people endlessly complain about main roster WWE (which IS shit, to be fair) because NXT is an hour-long weekly show that is great and has that WWE production and style that so many of us grew up with and love. WWE are producing a GREAT weekly product - it's just not the one that most people wish was great, I guess?

G1 going on at the moment. Very good but very hard to keep up with. I've watched most of the tournament matches and been impressed with Naito, Omega, Goto, Switchblade and Toru Yano. Yano is complete comedy but he's like if a Kang Ho Song character was transported into wrestling. A G1 match where he was ripping the turnbuckle pads off and then petulantly responding to the booing crowd by yelling "I'm allowed to do this!" was fantastic fun. He's the perfect guy to provide a different kinda match among all the seriousness of NJPW.

But yah, what do ye lads watch on a regular basis and do you enjoy it?

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2018, 02:06:46 PM »
Smackdown has always been the better show if you enjoy actual wrestling. They always filled it with matches as nothing was ever booked to happen storyline-wise there. Whenever they did a roster split all the smaller workers that Vince didn't give a shit about were dumped there and they'd have a much better show than the chosen 'superstars' on Raw. Now that Smackdown is over an hour shorter than Raw it's always easier to sit through.

I expect this to change when it moves to Fox next year. It wouldn't shock me if they moved a significant chunk of their "bigger" stars to Smackdown seeing as it's going to be on network TV with a much larger potential audience.

As for what wrestling I watch on a regular basis... it is mostly WWE to be honest, though I have finally caught back up with Lucha Underground (except for this week's ep which I'll watch tonight). The new venue for LU took a while to grow on me, but I'm good with it now, and I think the recent season is finding its flow these past couple of episodes. That Johnny Mundo vs. Vibora match was superb.

I always watch NXT, probably my favourite of all the shows. Raw I read the results and then just check out the bits that seem interesting - I can't sit through 3 hours anymore. I usually watch the majority of Smackdown, fast-forward through the boring bits. As I've said before, watching WWE is more of a social thing because most of my close friends watch, and it makes sitting through PPVs much more enjoyable when you can rag on it with mates. We also do a WWE PPV prediction league each year, so that keeps things interesting even when the product itself is stale.

I did binge through a whole bunch of Progress chapter shows last year, but kinda got burnt out. Need to catch up though because I'm going to the Wembley show in September.

New Jack

  • Biggy laughed at my family deaths; won't say sorry
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2018, 03:27:11 PM »
Stephanie McMahon alone knows the counter to Ronda Rousey's armbar
Stephanie McMahon revolutionised women
Stephanie McMahon is so desirable her dad wanted an incest angle
Stephanie McMahon hosts her own fitness videos

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2018, 03:40:52 PM »
The problem with WWE, Raw and Smackdown in any case, is they are absolutely, totally, completely shit at having any actual stories. They bang on about being storytellers but what are the stories they tell? I can’t even remember what happened last Monday/Tuesday and what everyone is up to or why. Stephanie McMahon saved the women, Ellsworth was fired, Braun Strowman is taking the piss out of KO, Miz and Daniel Bryan are involved… and? Nothing remotely memorable.

Coupled with the lack of discernible characters/ consistency it makes it a real chore to bother with. I remember reading that the head writer post Russo had a wall chart with everybody’s current relationship to everyone else (Edge is mates with Christian, hates the Hardy’s, gets on well with Angle, is indifferent to Steve Blackman etc) and used it in any interactions between characters: supposedly they took the piss out of this backstage!

Every other area of television, including kids TV, has complex stuff with actual characters and motivations, WWE has nothing. They have a vast, talented cast, and they should all have motivations and ideas of why they are wrestling and what they want to get out of it. Instead we have Roman Reigns who wants the championship because he’s the big dog. NXT does it so much better (the current Gargano/Ciampa feud has changes in the characters and plot twists!) and at least has an internal consistency.

I don’t think it has had a consistently good spell of more than a few weeks in the last decade. The Attitude era and early 2000’s was last when it was really good other than a few bright sparks. There was lots of rubbish then to, but it was shorter, and faster paced (except in the ring which has gone up several gears). Is wrestling television the only programming which is slower now than in the past?

New Jack

  • Biggy laughed at my family deaths; won't say sorry
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2018, 04:11:19 PM »
Having followed the narrative closely, I've come to appreciate the subtle storytelling devices informing me of the fact, all things considered and explored and approached from all angles, that, indeed, the sports entertainer Carmella causes a marked increase in ticket sales resulting in a higher revenue after taxation is applied.

Edit: go to this website, its charming
http://www.angelfire.com/wrestling2/rasslintapes/index.html
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 04:23:18 PM by New Jack »

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2018, 04:25:40 PM »
I record Raw + Smackdown and watch them next day with the blessed help of the fast forward button. I've been watching WWE since 1990 and have never been driven away. Guess I'm just commited for life now. I also watch NXT. I'm suscribed to the WWE + NJPW networks. On the WWE network I mostly watch 80s Jim Crockett + World Class and am following along with Bryan + Vinny + Craig on their Retro Raw + Nitros.

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2018, 04:36:08 PM »
I wonder how much creating a weekly live product hurts the storytelling? NXT usually tapes four episodes at a time and therefore they are basically forced to plan out at minimum four weeks of content. When it comes to Raw and Smackdown, how often do we hear stories of Vince changing things on the fly mere hours before broadcast? It's impossible to book a storyline for the next week when you're not even sure what will be happening on that night's show.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2018, 04:41:23 PM »
The problem is how much TV they have to fill and refusing to book as a traditional wrestling company. They have close to 30 writers, none of whom know the first thing about wrestling. They honestly think they make a weekly movie show. Also, Vince being a senile, capricious old fart doesn't help.

Hell of a roster though.

BeardFaceMan

  • Safely ensconced on top of the bathroom cabinet
    • mixes'n'mashes
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2018, 04:46:56 PM »
Hell of a roster because they signup anyone remotely hot so no other feds can benefit and then they misuse/dont use the wrestler. Vince wants things simply to stop other people having them. And he genuinely thinks hes competing with the likes of Better Call Saul or The Walking Dead when everything he does is basically a 101 in how to not write a tv show.

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2018, 04:53:26 PM »
Nothing is going to change any time soon though with Fox throwing billions of dollars at them.

BeardFaceMan

  • Safely ensconced on top of the bathroom cabinet
    • mixes'n'mashes
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2018, 05:05:55 PM »
Sadly true, I dont see any point watching anymore at least until Vince leaves/dies (more likely), I know I'm just going to be disappointed.

And after suing the Bucks for using an ancient hand signal they had fuck all to do with because the Bucks were making money, theyre now using the phrase 'all in' in some shitty promo for one of their shitty reality shows. They really are utter cunts.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2018, 06:43:55 PM »
Using that phrase was probably more E!'s doing then the WWE's. And likely just a coincidence.
They always have silly phrases in Total Diva commercials. It's not as if ''all in'' is a unique saying.

BeardFaceMan

  • Safely ensconced on top of the bathroom cabinet
    • mixes'n'mashes
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2018, 07:00:51 PM »
Its not unique but its hardly common unless youre playing poker, its not like its a wrestling term. You really think its coincidence theyre using it now when there is a PPV named that being run by guys that they just sued, knowing how cunty they are? I doubt E! know who the Bucks or Cody are.

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2018, 07:09:56 PM »
Yeah, no way that is a coincidence. Road Dogg pretty much owned up to it in a Twitter back and forth with Ryan Satin the other day.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2018, 07:29:01 PM »
They knew what they were doing.


Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2018, 07:35:58 PM »
Ah, then it's a bit of a weird move.

WWE probably didn't want it but it's now good free publicity for Cody and co though.