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March 28, 2024, 09:52:59 PM

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Wrestling Thread: the New Generation

Started by Z, July 26, 2018, 09:33:21 PM

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hummingofevil

I'll be honest, she doesn't scream wins-mean-more-than-ever-real-sports-approach to me but she is great fun watching that.

Fuck AEW. Japanese women's wrestling where the fun's at.

Osmium

Quote from: hummingofevil on February 08, 2019, 07:20:25 PMshe doesn't scream wins-mean-more-than-ever-real-sports-approach

TJPW definitely veers away from the real sport side of the wrestling spectrum. It is a DDT subgroup after all. DDT uploaded some Yuka matches earlier. I recommend watching this from January 4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKrVty-L_qg

If anybody had any doubts about Aja Kong's ability to deliver a high level match in this day and age check out this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSuHTPZ5MOk

Ja'moke

Meltzer put up audio of his talk with Omega after last night's press conference. Omega said that of the three deals he was offered, AEW, WWE, NJPW, that New Japan was his third best option, and "the other two companies were more excited to have me."

Also said he's signed with AEW for four years, but there is still an option in his contract to work NJPW occasionally if they want him.

hummingofevil

And for anyone who, like me, is a little rusty on their classic women's matches. This is amazing.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xs67dr

Ja'moke

Just watched this week's NXT. How good was Gulak v Riddle?!

Enjoyed the 6-woman tag match too.

mikeyg27

Quote from: Ja'moke on February 08, 2019, 09:32:38 PM
Just watched this week's NXT. How good was Gulak v Riddle?!

Almost as good as Bugenhagen's entrance.

Moribunderast

Quote from: up_the_hampipe on February 08, 2019, 01:46:48 PM
I would have much rather seen Omega in WWE working on the biggest global stage against many incredible wrestlers he hasn't faced before. But I'm sure yet another match with drunk dad Jericho and all his other pals will be fine.

This seems a bit dismissive - his first (and only) match with Jericho was great so I've no issue with him doing a rematch. With the current AEW roster he can have matches with Pac, Pentagon, Fenix, Hangman Page and CIMA - all matches I'd eagerly anticipate. While I can see the fan viewpoint that it would be cool to see him be on the Wrestlemania stage and wrestling some of the great talent in WWE, I'd contend that the WWE booking and overexposure of talent would severely dilute his impact and he'd pretty soon feel just like AJ, Bryan or any other great worker in WWE, where their PPV matches don't matter and often aren't as good as they should be. To me, personally, WWE's terrible booking and storytelling means no match can have stakes and thus every match doesn't matter and I can't buy-in the same way I can for a big NJPW match (or even NXT match). AJ vs. Bryan should be a dream match yet it's a feud that's produced several "pretty good" matches and has already been run into the ground so much I never want to see them wrestle again. That's what I fear would happen to Omega in WWE. Part of why he was so special in New Japan is that his big singles matches were a rare occurrence, outside of the G1 Climax. I'd hope he gets booked similarly in AEW. In WWE he'd be having trivial singles matches most weeks and PPV rematches against guys he's already faced 3 PPVs in a row in feuds that are repetitive and poorly booked, in my opinion.

People seem to have REALLY turned on Jericho lately, in some circles, which I find funny given the quality of his work in the past year. It's like some are just noticing now that he's a total egomaniac - he's ALWAYS been that way! Luckily for him he's still a great performer. The growing Grey Goose belly is unfortunate but I can overlook it as it kinda works with his current character and it hasn't stopped him having great matches with Naito and Omega and EVIL. If he keeps the same character in AEW (which it seems like he will) he could have some really fun brawls with Omega, Pentagon, Ambrose(?)

ToneLa

Jericho is brilliant and the more you know about him the more you respect his mind. He's slower but his style is changing and he's amazing.

I want him to transition into a Gedo booking role.

Jericho got a lot of respect form me when he went into bat for Randy Orton, when Brock Lesner smashed his skull in.

He may be Egotistical, but he is also very self aware and knows his own value.

Ja'moke

Jericho's the G.O.A.T for me. Despite how egotistical he is.

ToneLa

He's one of the top wrestlers of his generation, and look at that generation.. I don't think you can succeed and not be a little egotistical. I've seen enough shit by WWE marks to discount what they think. Picking little holes to shit on non WWE people.

He's brilliant. If he creates stuff like MITB for AEW it'll be fantastic. (I know the work storyline is he created it but apparently irl too)

Even if you don't like his current wrestling cause he slow, you surely, surely have to applaud his frequent reinventions.

... As long as I never have to hear the word Froot again! Also his music sucks haha

... Question from another forum. Someone asked who WON'T get in the WWE HOF. I said CM Punk. Benoit too obvious!

Quote from: ToneLa on February 09, 2019, 12:52:09 AM


... Question from another forum. Someone asked who WON'T get in the WWE HOF. I said CM Punk. Benoit too obvious!
Vince Mcmahon, at least not until hes dead.

Ja'moke

WWE are advertising Nia Jax vs Dean Ambrose for upcoming house shows.

hummingofevil

So much about Jericho makes me cringe from his obvious gimmicks to his shitty rock band to his endless self-promotion but I can't help but love him. Why? Because when it matters he always delivers where it counts, which is in that ring. Nothing screams naff midlife crisis that his clockwork orange Alice Cooper gimmick he's rocking in NJPW but when you see it in context in his matches it works. And it always works. Guy is a genius when it comes to this stupid shit we all love.

As I said previously the biggest obstacle that makes wrestling shit is over exposure and reputation. Jericho over comes the former by never allowing the latter to happen for long and constantly reinvents himself. That's not a difficult thing to do but like a good clown (proper clowns not the squirty lapel flower lot) they throw a few things out and are hyper sensitive to audience reaction, find the little thing that works then develop it into a full blown gimmick. Its such a skill and there is no one else anywhere close to how good he is at that aspect of his job.

BeardFaceMan

There are some wrestlers who were/are bigger stars, or viewed as more successful, but I think Jericho can lay a genuine claim to be one of the best wrestlers of the modern era. His matches, his gimmicks, his reinvention, his promos, he knows and clearly loves his wrestling onions.

Moribunderast

I loved in a recent interview with him where he was talking about his ideas and things he get over and he made that last WWE run with Owens sound like it was totally him fucking around and testing the limits as to how popular he could make stupid things. "I'm going to get a list over - oh, that worked? Fine, now I'll see if I can get the word "It" over." Not everything works but he has an amazing strike rate when it comes to successes vs. failures. Nobody thought his New Japan run would be as great as it was, me included, and he's my all-time favourite. He's also good enough to catch non-wrestling fans' eyes. A mate who was over during that Omega/Jericho match still quotes "Red Shoes! Look at your son!" On his last WWE run, I still maintain the Festival Of Friendship angle would be in the Top 5 of probably the last decade in WWE. Just an awesome culmination to a long story that was both hilarious and brutal.

And as awful as Fozzy are, I now actually really like "Judas" simply because it's attached to great wrestling memories in my brain. I get hyped whenever it comes on because it's been the precursor to the Omega and Naito matches and some really fun angles.

Re: Dean Ambrose vs. Nia Jax. WWE are in an interesting position with Ambrose leaving - and possibly to AEW. Obviously you don't want to push him before he goes so a big 'Mania program is out the window but you also don't want to go to hard on burying him because that will only garner him sympathy and make him hotter when he shows up elsewhere with fans thinking he's been recently mistreated. I think someone on this thread said, to which I'd agree, the best course is to just quietly take him off TV until his contract is out. Have Drew or Seth or Braun beat him up if you want to give them "credit" but if they run an actual Nia/Ambrose program I could see that backfiring for them.

Tanahashi vs. Switchblade for the IWGP Title tomorrow. Hope they don't do anything insane with the result of that one. Everybody wants the simple story: Tana wins, then Okada wins the New Japan Cup, then Okada vs. Tanahashi in the Main Event at Madison Square Garden. If any two wrestlers on the NJPW roster deserve that spot it's those two - and despite the fact they've wrestled a billion times it still always feels special and is always a great match.

If I may put my Gedo hat on, I'd go: Tana beats White, either beats or draws with Okada, then loses to Naito at Dominion. Naito then holds the title through to Wrestle Kingdom where he defends against G1 winner Okada to see if he can finally beat Okada on the biggest stage.

Mobius


Moribunderast


Z

Quote from: Delete Delete Delete on February 09, 2019, 12:07:29 AM
Jericho got a lot of respect form me when he went into bat for Randy Orton, when Brock Lesner smashed his skull in.

He may be Egotistical, but he is also very self aware and knows his own value.
Jericho is the loud obnoxious guy in school that you slowly realise is actually an absurdly nice guy too.

Timothy

Jericho was great but everything he did after he came back for the last time in WWE has been dull. Incredibly sloppy performances in both WWE and NJPW. Would be great in a backstage role but no need for me to see him wrestle anymore.

Moribunderast

Quote from: Timothy on February 09, 2019, 09:43:33 AM
Jericho was great but everything he did after he came back for the last time in WWE has been dull. Incredibly sloppy performances in both WWE and NJPW. Would be great in a backstage role but no need for me to see him wrestle anymore.

Wait, so you didn't like The List or the Festival of Friendship or his matches with Omega and Naito? I think we must have exactly polar opposite tastes in pro-wrestling, haha.

Timothy

Nah didnt like the List. Festival of friendship was alright but overdone. Match with Naito was good, didnt like the Omega Jericho match.

ToneLa


Moribunderast

Quote from: ToneLa on February 09, 2019, 10:25:43 AM
Ted Turner won't get in either :(

Every day that passes where Vince isn't named in a #metoo scandal is another day I'm stunned. Frankly, the fact metoo hasn't claimed any high-profile wrestling figures is astounding. Vince, Flair, Hogan, Bischoff, Steiner... surely they ain't all clean!

BeardFaceMan

I've said it before, but if a half decent investigative reporter took an interest in Vince theyd have a fucking field day. Even for a carny involved in wrestling hes a scumbag but I think its that involvement with wrestling that is saving him. Much to his chagrin, and its something hes been fighting against and trying (unsuccessfully) to change for decades, mainstream America simply does not give a fuck about wrestling. Its for carnys and kids, its still looked down on as cheesy, fake, and all round lesser entertainment so Vince is off peoples radars. And he's extremely lucky that he is, I'm both looking forward to and absolutely dreading reading some of the stuff thats going to come about him when he dies.

Hogan came close to being cancelled for all his racist shit, was it the fact that people hated Gawker more that saved him? The fact he was able to be wheeled out on Raw to apologise to keep the money making machine going says everything about what people think of wrestling - they just dont care enough to get worked up about it.

ETA - I think it goes back to that mindset of people thinking WWE is wrestling, people who grew up watching it and always wanted to be there. Any time anyone talks shit about Vince its always swiftly followed with "but he gave me opportunity", Vince has a way of making them feel grateful for being there and being treated badly so people put up with a lot and rationalize things in all sorts of ways so they can carry on living their dream. And speak out about Vince and there goes your Legends contract and your retirement money I think the fact that there was nowhere else for wrestlers to go for long that theyve had to put up with the bullshit and be afraid to speak out because they wouldnt be able to make a decent living anywhere else. Hopefully with AEW and a thriving worlwide indie scene thats going to change.

Z

Jericho was really bad for the first while of his last wwe run, notably slower and seemingly with no real plan for why he was there, but he really pulled it out of the fire quite dramatically imo.

Ja'moke

Yeah, list writing/scarf wearing Jericho was probably his second best run in WWE, after suit wearing/big-word using Jericho in 2008. It just seemed like everything he touched turned to gold. And him and Owens were the hottest act on Raw for the best part of a year. Still a shame they took the Universal title out of that feud to put it on Goldberg.

ToneLa

One Jericho thing I didn't get was his run in 08 or so, his suit-wearing talkative heel... he said it was inspired by Chigurh in "No Country For Old Men"

Who is basically a cowboy Terminator who only speaks rarely, and when he does in fate-obsessed riddles....

So, uh??



BeardFaceMan

Quote from: ToneLa on February 09, 2019, 12:52:57 PM
One Jericho thing I didn't get was his run in 08 or so, his suit-wearing talkative heel... he said it was inspired by Chigurh in "No Country For Old Men"

Who is basically a cowboy Terminator who only speaks rarely, and when he does in fate-obsessed riddles....

So, uh??



It was more his demeanor, the slow, methodical bad guy instead of shouting and screaming like he usually did as a heel.

He's one of those rare wrestlers, in that even though he's beloved by most of the audience he can still get them to boo him while still being entertaining. That's hard to pull off, you just end up being the edgy face, but his heel work is excellent.