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March 28, 2024, 09:11:55 AM

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Wrestling Thread: the New Generation

Started by Z, July 26, 2018, 09:33:21 PM

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Ja'moke

I like that it's a triple threat. I think the match will be killer. But I do think it's kind of dumb how they're getting to that point. After the talk a couple of months ago about no more authority figures, here we are again.

That said, Becky invading Ric Flair's birthday bash will be fun.

Moribunderast

Quote from: Timothy on February 12, 2019, 12:08:55 PM
The fans are behind Becky because she acts like a cool heel.

A good face doesnt insult an opponent on Twitter out of nowhere. A good face isnt deliberatily taunting and insulting the opponent during promos. A good face doesnt have the audience boo the heel. Thats the heels job.

How can you be a proper heel against someone who acts all cool and insulting?

Becky being the cool heel makes sure that Ronda cant be the proper heel. She is being booed for the wrong reasons while Lynch is being cheered for the wrong reasons. Thats why a singles match wont work.

The Rock and Steve Austin insulted their opponents all the time and it worked out okay for them. "How can you be a proper heel against someone who acts all cool and insulting?" Easy - have Ronda still be a badass but beat Becky down a couple of times - maybe even use the Horsewomen. She'd be booed for the "right reasons" then. Was HHH not a proper heel because The Rock mocked him and fans wanted Rock to win? Literally anyone could have seen that Ronda would be booed against Becky - you book knowing that and have her lean into it. Let's not pretend Charlotte is there as a result of Becky failing - she's there because she's the chosen one and they couldn't stomach not having her in the first-ever Women's Wrestlemania Main Event.

Do you honestly think the heat at the start of the one-on-one Becky vs. Ronda match wouldn't be off the charts and would be happening for the wrong reasons?

ToneLa

Timothy's gone into business for himself~!

Ja'moke

Also, as someone else said, I feel bad for Asuka. She hasn't even been on Smackdown since the Rumble has she? And doesn't have a match for Elimination Chamber, and her list of viable opponents for Mania is shrinking by the minute.

If Sasha and Bayley weren't in the tag division, I'd have liked to have seen Sasha somehow traded to Smackdown and feud with Asuka. Their match on Raw last year was great. Instead we're likely to get Asuka defending at Mania in some sort of throwaway multi-woman match.

Timothy

Quote from: Moribunderast on February 12, 2019, 12:27:37 PM
Do you honestly think the heat at the start of the one-on-one Becky vs. Ronda match wouldn't be off the charts and would be happening for the wrong reasons?

Yes.

ToneLa

Quote from: Timothy on February 12, 2019, 12:36:56 PM
Yes.

Would you sacrifice Mania to avoid that? The thing is, that crowd, right now, they're gonna want one thing, and it's Lynch winning, walking tall...

up_the_hampipe

Quote from: Ja'moke on February 12, 2019, 12:35:48 PM
Also, as someone else said, I feel bad for Asuka. She hasn't even been on Smackdown since the Rumble has she? And doesn't have a match for Elimination Chamber, and her list of viable opponents for Mania is shrinking by the minute.

The focus on the women's division is very limited. They can only zone in on one angle at a time, and they always reuse the same people. That's my gripe with having Charlotte involved, there's little diversity in the division when you crowbar her into every major storyline/achievement. Becky and Ronda can have a super hot rivalry and match on their own. They could have a triple threat or fatal 4 way or some such multi-woman match with Charlotte involved for the Smackdown title.

BeardFaceMan

Quote from: Timothy on February 11, 2019, 06:37:51 AM
And if you take a look at people like Becky Lynch you can see that getting over by being creatively inspired is also possible in WWE.

Quote from: Timothy on February 12, 2019, 08:26:41 AM
The Becky angle is soooo been there done that. Again the authority. Come up with something new already.

I wonder what people see when they watch WWE sometimes.

Quote from: Timothy on February 11, 2019, 06:37:51 AM
(still talking about being creatively inspired) She got herself the Mania main event.

Quote from: Timothy on February 12, 2019, 10:53:12 AM
That's the main reason why I dislike Lynch. She only seems to be interested in getting herself over.

Becky feels like the most forced 'organic' push I've ever seen.

Re: Asuka not doing much at the moment, I'd rather her not be on TV than WWE trying to shoehorn her into every Smackdown while not having a proper plan for her, ensuring she gets staler by the week.

Ja'moke

Quote from: BeardFaceMan on February 12, 2019, 12:51:41 PM
Becky feels like the most forced 'organic' push I've ever seen.

Her original rise last year was not forced. This recent authority stuff is forced, but she already got over before that. If you haven't seen the product you can't really says it's the most forced organic push you've "ever seen."

BeardFaceMan

Quote from: Ja'moke on February 12, 2019, 12:55:42 PM
Her original rise last year was not forced. This recent authority stuff is forced, but she already got over before that. If you haven't seen the product you can't really says it's the most forced organic push you've "ever seen."

That's what I mean by forced. She started to get cheers on her own and then they put her weight behind her and started fucking it up. And I've "seen" plenty of people creaming themselves over her when she was getting cheered on her own and then get slagging her off when WWE started pushing her. Its the fact people still refer to it as organic when they're doing Stone Cold Becky Austin, they're following a clear pattern thats worked for them before because theyre bereft of ideas, anything organic about her disappeared long ago.

Ja'moke

Quote from: BeardFaceMan on February 12, 2019, 12:56:47 PM
That's what I mean by forced. She started to get cheers on her own and then they put her weight behind her and started fucking it up. And I've "seen" plenty of people creaming themselves over her when she was getting cheered on her own and then get slagging her off when WWE started pushing her. Its the fact people still refer to it as organic when they're doing Stone Cold Becky Austin, they're following a clear pattern thats worked for them before because theyre bereft of ideas, anything organic about her disappeared long ago.

I don't think that last part really matters though. She got over, mostly on her own, and has now been given the top position. Yes, the organic part has stopped now, but that's always going to happen. She achieved her goal of getting to the main event.

Timothy

She got over because the fans suddenly out of nowhere decided they wanted to push someone to the main event because they wanted to let their voices heard and have control and choose Becky out of random and Becky decided to use that in her advantage and let her creative ideas take over. The reason why they cheer is still unknown to me considering she is a very bland performer and her ideas arent that original.

ToneLa

Quote from: Timothy on February 12, 2019, 01:04:52 PM
She got over because the fans suddenly out of nowhere decided they wanted to push someone to the main event and choose Becky and Becky decided to use that in her advantage.

... How dare she..?

All pushes are forced though aren't they?  Ahhhhhhhhh!

up_the_hampipe

Austin got over organically, then they centred entire shows around him. Literally Poochie levels of "when Austin isn't on screen, the commentators should be asking 'Where's Austin?'". It's the nature of a push.

Basically, Becky is the new Stone Cold. Get over it, haters.

Ja'moke

Quote from: Timothy on February 12, 2019, 01:04:52 PM
She got over because the fans suddenly out of nowhere decided they wanted to push someone to the main event and choose Becky and Becky decided to use that in her advantage.

Or they enjoyed Becky's work and wanted to cheer for her. You contradict yourself way too much.

Timothy

Quote from: Ja'moke on February 12, 2019, 01:06:05 PM
Or they enjoyed Becky's work and wanted to cheer for her. You contradict yourself way too much.

There is nothing to enjoy when it comes to Becky's work, especially not from the moment she left NXT until Evolution. No persona and boring matches.

Then out of nowhere fans cheered her and here we are.

Ja'moke

Quote from: Timothy on February 12, 2019, 01:07:30 PM
There is nothing to enjoy when it comes to Becky's work, especially not from the moment she left NXT until Evolution. No persona and boring matches.

Then out of nowhere fans cheered her and here we are.

BeardFaceMan already pointed out your own contradictions on this issue. It's kind of hard to take you seriously.


Ja'moke


BeardFaceMan

Quote from: Timothy on February 12, 2019, 01:04:52 PM
She got over because the fans suddenly out of nowhere...

As far as I can tell, she was one of the first wrestlers to get herself over using Twitter rather than what she was doing in the ring. If you just watched TV it might have come out of nowhere, it seems it was the stuff she did on the internet that got her cheered in the ring initially.

Quote from: BeardFaceMan on February 12, 2019, 01:15:31 PM
As far as I can tell, she was one of the first wrestlers to get herself over using Twitter rather than what she was doing in the ring. If you just watched TV it might have come out of nowhere, it seems it was the stuff she did on the internet that got her cheered in the ring initially.

Twitter, and also the excellent matches she was having involving Charlotte in the second half of last year.  Fans also tend to gravitate towards the talented worker who they think should get a fair shot but haven't been pushed as much as others (i.e. Charlotte).  It all helps.

Becky was always the fan favourite under dog as she was the only one of the four horse women not to win the NXT title and shes come a hell of a way from her NXT debut as Fiddle De Dee Lynch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQBBkcsr6zc

ToneLa

I would not care about where heat originated if indeed it translates to heat in the ring and on the shows. Reckon she's been over for yonks though and I see enough of her (as in the essence of the original person I liked) nowadays to root for her. WWE approval to cheer or not.

But I'm not Vince McMahon. Skint, for one

Becky question. Does she move much merch? 'A draw' is a bit of a weird question these days.

BeardFaceMan

Quote from: An Actual Propeller on February 12, 2019, 01:23:10 PM
Twitter, and also the excellent matches she was having involving Charlotte in the second half of last year.  Fans also tend to gravitate towards the talented worker who they think should get a fair shot but haven't been pushed as much as others (i.e. Charlotte).  It all helps.

Oh I'm not saying she's awful or can't wrestle or anything, but Becky fans do have a tendency to bang on about her like she's the complete product, the best there is and all that which is a reason why she's getting so much kickback. I mean I get the excitement because it's not often you can get that excited by an angle in WWE, she's good, but *great*? She's about on par with all the other top women there, maybe one or two are better than her (IMO, obvs), nothing really made her stand out though. Until she started talking kayfabe trash on Twitter and got herself over by standing out in a different way.

Timothy

Quote from: Ja'moke on February 12, 2019, 01:09:23 PM
BeardFaceMan already pointed out your own contradictions on this issue. It's kind of hard to take you seriously.

What contradictions? She was boring and didnt do much until Evolution. After that the fans suddenly decided to cheer her. She used that and her personal imput and creative inspiration (I find it dull but I'm fairly alone in this) to get even more over. The fans gave her the ball and she started running. None of it happened organically but Lynch made good use of the situation therefore proving its possible to get in the main event if you work hard or use the fans wantijg to let themselves heard to your advantage.

I think shes an awful face and her matches and promos bore me to bits but that doesnt change the fact that what she did is impressive. Same how Fandango used his themesong to get over.

The fact that she broke through the glass ceiling proves that even the dullest wrestler can get over if they are both lucky and work hard.

Quote from: Timothy on February 12, 2019, 01:53:43 PM
She was boring and didnt do much until Evolution. After that the fans suddenly decided to cheer her.

She was having excellent matches with Charlotte before the Evolution show.  Fans don't cheer somebody for literally no reason.

Quote from: Timothy on February 12, 2019, 01:53:43 PM
She used that and her personal imput and creative inspiration (I find it dull but I'm fairly alone in this) to get even more over. The fans gave her the ball and she started running. None of it happened organically but Lynch made good use of the situation therefore proving its possible to get in the main event if you work hard or use the fans wantijg to let themselves heard to your advantage.

You can't claim that "none of it happened organically" whilst saying "the fans gave her the ball".  That doesn't make sense.  Maybe that's another of your contradictions that everybody is pointing out?

hummingofevil

I actually agree with Timothy (for once) about having Ronda beat Becky beat Charlotte and carry feud on from there. We all know Vince likes nothin more than a swerve and if they going to get Ronda over as mega heel what better place to do it.

When was the last truely great heel win at Mania last match?

And of course Charlotte should be in. She's a Flair, she's great in ring, she's great in media and her entrance will be awesome.



Dave mentioned Ronda being a little difficult back stage. He suggested wasn't anything big so my guess is reluctance to turn fully heel. Anyone got any other guesses?

Timothy

Quote from: An Actual Propeller on February 12, 2019, 01:59:52 PM
She was having excellent matches with Charlotte before the Evolution show.  Fans don't cheer somebody for literally no reason.

You can't claim that "none of it happened organically" whilst saying "the fans gave her the ball".  That doesn't make sense.  Maybe that's another of your contradictions that everybody is pointing out?

The fans do cheer people out of nowhere. Just like they suddenly chant we are awesome or throw a beach ball around.  Fans suddenly cheered her and popped, she got more airtime and she used that.

The week before Evolution nobody popped for Lynch. Two weeks later she was as over as CM Punk. No idea what happened there but one good match at a PPV nobody watched doesnt normally do that.