Author Topic: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation  (Read 56296 times)

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2018, 10:03:26 AM »
The MYC was by far my favourite thing WWE did last year, this year's lineup is absolutely unbelievable. Very, very happy about this.

up_the_hampipe

  • Crowd appeaser
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2018, 09:28:42 PM »
Dolph Ziggler did alright on Roast Battle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbuX4Hg_iro

New Jack

  • Biggy laughed at my family deaths; won't say sorry
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2018, 01:45:57 PM »
I like how they used Brock last night. It was always odd when they'd pay him all this money for appearances and just have him stand next to Heyman doing his little jig. Even did a pleasant little interview with Mike Rome afterwards (legs splayed apart to make Brock look taller) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcoZW_Q1PeU

I thought Brock's acting was pretty alright here as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TgGx2-YsZU

He did well, I watched clips of Raw and thought they did a good job making the crowd hate him.

But it seems like it's X Pac heat, the pops for 'he will be stripped of the title' are as big as the cheers for Roman. Its baffling to consider Lesnar now to how he looked when he came in. Probably won't do much for Roman longer term assuming he gets the title either.


Smackdown was good, I like what they're doing with the women (Lana match aside) and heel Orton is the best Orton. Bryan vs Miz should be good at SummerFest

Moribunderast

  • What is your place in my glorification?
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2018, 01:53:58 PM »
Was looking at another forum and they were discussing someone digging up rape joke tweets by Tye Dillinger and Cedric Alexander. In the thread, someone brought this old tweet up. Mama Mia! A Johnny Gargano heel turn! Hopefully Matt Hardy has helped him get "woken" over the last couple of years. Yikes!


up_the_hampipe

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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2018, 02:10:37 PM »
He did well, I watched clips of Raw and thought they did a good job making the crowd hate him.

But it seems like it's X Pac heat, the pops for 'he will be stripped of the title' are as big as the cheers for Roman. Its baffling to consider Lesnar now to how he looked when he came in. Probably won't do much for Roman longer term assuming he gets the title either.

It's interesting though because they are still getting worked. Lots of wrestling fans are angry with Brock Lesnar for not showing up, but it's WWE's decision. They were keeping him off TV on purpose to build this storyline and get Roman over. Lesnar will appear when they want him, as long as he's under contract.

New Jack

  • Biggy laughed at my family deaths; won't say sorry
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2018, 03:50:10 PM »
Gargano will never make the transition to Hollywood or the White House now!

It's interesting though because they are still getting worked. Lots of wrestling fans are angry with Brock Lesnar for not showing up, but it's WWE's decision. They were keeping him off TV on purpose to build this storyline and get Roman over. Lesnar will appear when they want him, as long as he's under contract.

Is another way of saying this.... the fans have worked themselves into a shoot?

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #66 on: August 01, 2018, 07:55:56 PM »
Three more names confirmed for MYC2:

Hiroyo Matsumoto!
Aerial Monroe
Vanessa Kraven

Also, apparently Ranallo is calling the tournament this year, which is great news. JR (and Lita) were both terrible last year. I know some people find Ranallo a bit much, but he shows genuine enthusiasm and does his research. JR and Lita both sounded lost last year.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #67 on: August 01, 2018, 11:35:36 PM »
Hiroyo Matsumoto is another good get. Funnily enough Hiroyo, Meiko and Io (+Mio Shirai was referee) had a 3way match* at Kenta Kobashi's Fortune Dream 5 show back in June. I wonder if they all knew they were in the tournament at the time.

* https://rutube.ru/video/dc23e1ad59a09375fa6463bc84b1e70e/

up_the_hampipe

  • Crowd appeaser
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2018, 08:11:15 AM »
Kane has just been elected mayor of Knox County. Haha.

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #69 on: August 03, 2018, 08:05:46 PM »
More Mae Young Classic participants, including Impact's Sienna (not Allysin Kay): https://www.wwe.com/shows/maeyoungclassic/article/mj-jenkins-zatara-xia-li-allysin-kay-rachel-evers?sf194855942=1

That should be the entire field. Can't wait to watch!

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2018, 11:43:14 PM »
Just catching up with Smackdown. Becky Lynch is the best babyface promo going.

EDIT: And Joe best heel promo going.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 12:07:00 AM by Ja'moke »

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #71 on: August 05, 2018, 08:32:20 AM »
think Ishii v Omega might be the best match I've seen in years.

Moribunderast

  • What is your place in my glorification?
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #72 on: August 05, 2018, 02:24:00 PM »
think Ishii v Omega might be the best match I've seen in years.

I've fallen so far behind on G1. It really is a case of if you miss one or two shows, they just start piling up and become overwhelming. Last show I was up to was Juice vs. Omega and there's been about 8 shows since then, it seems!

Moribunderast

  • What is your place in my glorification?
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #73 on: August 06, 2018, 06:54:28 AM »
Doing some catching up on G1 now... is Ishii vs. Omega meant to be better than Ishii vs. Ibushi. Because I just watched the latter and holy shit, what a battle!

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #74 on: August 06, 2018, 10:09:12 AM »
Doing some catching up on G1 now... is Ishii vs. Omega meant to be better than Ishii vs. Ibushi. Because I just watched the latter and holy shit, what a battle!

i loved Ishii-Ibushi but i honestly think Ishii-Omega is one of the best matches I've ever seen.


New Jack

  • Biggy laughed at my family deaths; won't say sorry
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #75 on: August 06, 2018, 11:22:10 AM »
Having a New Japan catchup day myself, not watching it in order, just what's been raved about

Day 15 right now, enjoyed Elgin vs Tanahashi. Omega is the main draw for me though. He's B block isn't he?

It's amazing how fast these shows go by when you actually enjoy them!

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #76 on: August 06, 2018, 08:49:30 PM »
Pretty good article on Evolution (the upcoming PPV, not the faction): https://groknation.com/culture/wwe-evolution/

BeardFaceMan

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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #77 on: August 06, 2018, 09:09:23 PM »
The most relevant part of that article is where it says that they are breaking down barriers they helped create and enforce. After decades of treating the women like shit theyre suddenly pioneers because of a single PPV? Notice the article didnt mention Saudi either, how does that fit in with how they treat women? As per usual, WWE (or Vince, when you get down to it) are light years behind everyone elseand are being applauded for playing catch up simply because theyre the most well known company. One PPV a year doesnt mean shit, why only one, why treat it as a spectacle instead of a regular thing? And that stuff about small steps is rubbish, theres nothing stopping them taking big steps. Women could be regularly main eventing the weekly shows and PPVs right now, they have the talent, theres nothing stopping them doing that other than their own appaling writing and booking.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #78 on: August 06, 2018, 09:19:40 PM »
Women could be regularly main eventing the weekly shows and PPVs right now, they have the talent, theres nothing stopping them doing that other than their own appaling writing and booking.

Aye. Charlotte and Sasha main evented Hell in a Cell 2 years ago and it was well received. Nothing has stopped them repeating that except themselves.

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #79 on: August 06, 2018, 09:44:01 PM »
The most relevant part of that article is where it says that they are breaking down barriers they helped create and enforce. After decades of treating the women like shit theyre suddenly pioneers because of a single PPV? Notice the article didnt mention Saudi either, how does that fit in with how they treat women? As per usual, WWE (or Vince, when you get down to it) are light years behind everyone elseand are being applauded for playing catch up simply because theyre the most well known company. One PPV a year doesnt mean shit, why only one, why treat it as a spectacle instead of a regular thing? And that stuff about small steps is rubbish, theres nothing stopping them taking big steps. Women could be regularly main eventing the weekly shows and PPVs right now, they have the talent, theres nothing stopping them doing that other than their own appaling writing and booking.

The women do main event Raw and SD more frequently now, and it isn't sold as "historic" anymore, just a matter of fact. Charlotte and Carmella main evented Smackdown last week for example.

But yeah, still lots of writing and booking problems with the women (and across the company as a whole actually).

up_the_hampipe

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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #80 on: August 07, 2018, 08:08:37 AM »
Paul Heyman’s performance last night, wow! I didn’t know wrestling acting could be this good https://youtu.be/ExE7e6bqRXg

Utter Shit

  • Snotty Bumstead
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #81 on: August 07, 2018, 11:00:07 AM »
IMO Heyman is the best mic worker in the history of the business, bar none. Heenan and Ventura would be up there for their brilliant commentary work, but Heyman is the fucking man. His (kayfabe...ish) attack on McMahon back in the day is incredibly good. Annoyingly Youtube only has a shit quality version of it, but anyone that hasn't seen it really should. I'm guessing most in here have seen it already though.

kitsofan34

  • everybody's clever nowadays
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #82 on: August 07, 2018, 12:57:21 PM »
IMO Heyman is the best mic worker in the history of the business, bar none. Heenan and Ventura would be up there for their brilliant commentary work, but Heyman is the fucking man. His (kayfabe...ish) attack on McMahon back in the day is incredibly good. Annoyingly Youtube only has a shit quality version of it, but anyone that hasn't seen it really should. I'm guessing most in here have seen it already though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn9G3Onwjjg

Here is said promo. If you'll indulge me, I have some opinions on said video.

Quote
After all, and as Žižek has provocatively pointed out, anti-capitalism is widely disseminated in capitalism. Time after time, the villain in Hollywood films will turn out to be the ‘evil corporation’. Far from undermining capitalist realism, this gestural anti-capitalism actually reinforces it. Take Disney/ Pixar’s Wall-E (2008). The film shows an earth so despoiled that human beings are no longer capable of inhabiting it. We’re left in no doubt that consumer capitalism and corporations – or rather one mega-corporation, Buy n Large – is responsible for this depredation; and when we see eventually see the human beings in offworld exile, they are infantile and obese, interacting via screen interfaces, carried around in large motorized chairs, and supping indeterminate slop from cups. What we have here is a vision of control and communication much as Jean Baudrillard understood it, in which subjugation no longer takes the form of a subordination to an extrinsic spectacle, but rather invites us to interact and participate. It seems that the cinema audience is itself the object of this satire, which prompted some right wing observers to recoil in disgust, condemning Disney/Pixar for attacking its own audience. But this kind of irony feeds rather than challenges capitalist realism. A film like Wall-E exemplifies what Robert Pfaller has called ‘interpassivity’: the film performs our anti-capitalism for us, allowing us to continue to consume with impunity.

-Mark Fisher, Capitalist Realism.


Long quote, I know I know, hear me out. What I'm trying to get at with that quote, is that Heyman's making these excellent points, clearly derived from a real place of passion, and yet he's saying it....on Vince McMahon's show. It is taking a legitimate moral position and commercialising it for pay per view buys. ECW was legitimately edgy and innovative and original and what Heyman did there deserves comendation and yet, he finds himself on McMahon's show. The WWE takes anything with credibility, anything with cultural "cool" and consumes it, swallows it whole and they do so because the WWE, through its shocking, scitzophrenic booking, can no longer create their own stars, so it hoovers up your Keith Lee's, your Matt Riddle's, your Ricochet's your Tommy End's. Even that very clip, from 2001, is evidence of how shocking they plan things. Heyman is clearly in the right there, there's not an ounce of fabrication in what he says. And yet who are we meant to root for in that clip? Vince. At the end of the clip we see Taz getting up from his seat, I presume he's about to attack Heyman? How does that make any logical sense? Why would you root for Vince McMahon in that clip?

I could ramble on about this performative feminism they're currently expressing and so on and so forth but I shan't. I don't understand why anyone would willingly choose to watch this company when they are beyond reproach ethically and the product has been stagnant for the large part of 15 years, especially when there are significantly better companies around, such as New Japan.

Sorry for rambling.

BeardFaceMan

  • Safely ensconced on top of the bathroom cabinet
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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #83 on: August 07, 2018, 01:04:45 PM »
Heyman is indeed great because he (is? at least was) a slimy fucker in real life, very good at getting people what he wanted them to believe so that translated well to the mic. Was he secretly taking Vince's money at the time of that promo or did that come a bit later?

Edit - Ah I didn't think you were talking about that one, I thought it was the ECW talking to camera shoot promo.

Utter Shit

  • Snotty Bumstead
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #84 on: August 07, 2018, 01:16:06 PM »
The story behind Heyman getting the WWE to buy ECW is mad. Proper puppet-master stuff. I can't remember the precise details but essentially he told the WWE he owned the (now virtually worthless) company and they could use it, only for it to become clear he no longer owned it, he just had a stake in it.

By that time WWE had already started using ECW in storylines and couldn't just bin it off, so they decided to buy it...except that the courts decreed that, as the company was featuring regularly on TV, it was worth a shitload more than it was a few weeks earlier. WWE shelled out a ton of extra money for the rights, much of which went straight to Heyman. He's an evil genius.

Someone else may be able to fact check that for me as there might be some errors in the detal, but the basic outline is true. Heyman completely played Vince and the WWE, and made himself a fortune in the process.

BeardFaceMan

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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #85 on: August 07, 2018, 01:24:33 PM »
If someone involved in wrestling wants wrestling to go proper mainstream all they need to do is write an autobiography that's actually true. Once people get a sense of the crazy shit going on behind the scenes it'll never be off the bestsellers list. Can you imagine some of the unknown stories involving Vince back in the 80s? Or Heyman during ECW? Or NWO era WCW? Thats the thing about wrestling though, it's an induistry based on lies, inside and outside the ring, guys don't know how to stop and keep working people long after they've retired. But fucking hell, if someone could just come forward with the truth around some big events in wrestling history it would be fucking fascinating. And horrifying.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #86 on: August 07, 2018, 02:43:53 PM »
it would get lawyered out of the world very quickly. Tom Zenk used to have a website where he just shot on everyone, pulled the curtain back on anyone he ever worked with, very funny stuff. It's not even in the cache because of how hard it was shut down. They got him to sign some shit and he couldn't even cash in when the trend for shoot videos came in.

BeardFaceMan

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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #87 on: August 07, 2018, 03:50:11 PM »
Thats the thing isnt it, its not going to be stories about people being hard to work with or crazy road stories, its going to be some nasty and illegal shit. And too mich time has passed to really get to the bottom of whether Vince helped Jimmy Snuka get away with literal murder or any number of other equally heinous events. The worst thing about wrestling is the amount of lying that goes on once kayfaybe ends (if it ever does for some people) you never know what to believe, but thats also what makes it so fascinating, the fact that Vince runs a billion dollar company more or less the same as a 1960 carnival show.

New Jack

  • Biggy laughed at my family deaths; won't say sorry
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #88 on: August 08, 2018, 03:10:37 PM »
If someone involved in wrestling wants wrestling to go proper mainstream all they need to do is write an autobiography that's actually true. Once people get a sense of the crazy shit going on behind the scenes it'll never be off the bestsellers list. Can you imagine some of the unknown stories involving Vince back in the 80s? Or Heyman during ECW? Or NWO era WCW? Thats the thing about wrestling though, it's an induistry based on lies, inside and outside the ring, guys don't know how to stop and keep working people long after they've retired. But fucking hell, if someone could just come forward with the truth around some big events in wrestling history it would be fucking fascinating. And horrifying.

This is why I enjoy New Jack shoots! He just talks openly about doing cocaine, who he was doing it with, who pissed him off, who is a 'bitch' backstage (Taz is a scaredy cat and so are the Dudleys!). It's stuff nobody else says, and 95% of it is trashy, disgusting stuff you'd expect, like ring rats in hotels, who did what on what drugs, and who hates who.

Oh, and wanting to run Missy Hyatt over with a lawnmower. Factual as you can get. New Jack had a mini flirtation with the mainstream considering, well, considering it's New Jack. 'Denzel's friend' , Geraldo...

I think Bret's book is pretty good, though I question how he can remember exact words from drunken conversations thirty years ago.

But if I could choose one person to have a no-holds-barred biography about... You've said it. Vince McMahon, hands down.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #89 on: August 08, 2018, 03:15:29 PM »
apparently Bret kept an audio diary all that time. his book is incredible, not the edited version that got re-released. a friend of mine did an awesome summary of the book called Too Poor For Real Pants, which if you google can still be found (edit: removed, sadly!)