Author Topic: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation  (Read 26832 times)

New Jack

  • Biggy laughed at my family deaths; won't say sorry
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #120 on: August 10, 2018, 02:34:12 PM »
Colt didn't even do anything at the trial, his involvement was just pointless maliciousness by Amann and I have a problem with the idea of a host being prosecuted for his guests.

It's hard not to sympathise with him automatically.

BeardFaceMan

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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #121 on: August 10, 2018, 02:36:24 PM »
you might like the Bad News Brown/Allen shoot. The questions jump around the timeline and they don't spend enough time with his actual Olympic judo medal winning career, but he is a man who worked a lot of big names and isn't afraid to stuff like Andre was a massive racist or this guy couldn't work. There's less sex and drugs because he was clean and had a family, but it's very honest and direct.

That sounds more up my alley, the sex and drugs stuff can be fun but I'd rather someone just being honest in a shoot than telling rib and fucking stories for an hour.

Has anyone read this new book about Nitro and the the end of WCW? https://www.amazon.co.uk/NITRO-Incredible-Inevitable-Collapse-Turners/dp/0692139176 Was never a fan of WCW or seen much of it but some of the backstage stuff that went on sounds very interesting, you have people like Hogan, Nash and Bischoff involved so its going to be very hard to smell where the bullshit is. Eric Bischoff called it the most accurate book about WCW out there so I'm not sure if thats a good or bad thing.

Colt didn't even do anything at the trial, his involvement was just pointless maliciousness by Amann and I have a problem with the idea of a host being prosecuted for his guests.

It's hard not to sympathise with him automatically.


Yeah that would have been a bad precedent to set and would have meant the end of any kind of interesting interviews ever appearing anywhere again for fear of the unwitting host being sued for what the guest says if Amann had won.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #122 on: August 10, 2018, 02:43:49 PM »
that book looks interesting. Death of WCW is very good though if you've listened to as much Wrestling Observer Radio as I have, you can't help but hear Bryan Alvarez screaming half of it at you. I wonder if the author of this book gets as many Russo Truthers chasing him every day.

Tanahashi and Okada tore it down at Budokan today.


up_the_hampipe

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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #123 on: August 10, 2018, 02:46:07 PM »
Like how he cut Corey Graves out of his life (Punk was the first person to hold Graves child as Graves was on the road at the time) when he left WWE simply because Graves continued to work there. Not sure what the full story is on this and it will be interesting to unfold but Punk is clearly not a people person and a bit of a dick.

Yeah, well that's an important part of the issue. Perhaps there was some collateral damage because he didn't know who to trust (it's an industry of backstabbing after all), but I still think there's important details being left out of stories like this.

New Jack

  • Biggy laughed at my family deaths; won't say sorry
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #124 on: August 10, 2018, 02:51:17 PM »
When I saw The Bisch live he actually said he never fired anyone from WCW, so that can be used as a benchmark for how truthful he is. He said Steve Austin wasn't fired but iirc his contract ended and he was merely informed and certainly not by FedEx. Absolutely disputed the rumour WCW were trying to get Tyson too (Mike, not Kidd!)

He's claimed The Death of WCW is fiction, and personally accused, to my knowledge at least, Alvarez, Meltzer, RD Reynolds and even Jericho of lying. Live he said something like 'nobody even knows the true financial of WCW as only I had access to it.'


BeardFaceMan

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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #125 on: August 10, 2018, 02:58:40 PM »
that book looks interesting. Death of WCW is very good though if you've listened to as much Wrestling Observer Radio as I have, you can't help but hear Bryan Alvarez screaming half of it at you. I wonder if the author of this book gets as many Russo Truthers chasing him every day.

Tanahashi and Okada tore it down at Budokan today.

From what I read about that Nitro book, that Death Of WCW book was mostly bollocks and this one focuses a lot on the corporate structure, financial dealings etc side of things as well as the actual wrestling. But again, thats mostly from Bischoff so you're only going to get a good idea of what actually went on if you read lots of different accounts. I'll have to get that Death of WCW book, I'm becoming a lot more interested in this side of things again since I stopped watching WWE regularly.

Yeah, well that's an important part of the issue. Perhaps there was some collateral damage because he didn't know who to trust (it's an industry of backstabbing after all), but I still think there's important details being left out of stories like this.

It doesnt help that Punk never really talks about things like this, once someone is out of his life thats it, he won't even talk about them so people are left to assume the worst about what went down and we only ever get one version of it. The thing is as the years go on we are getting lots of lots of stories of that one version, it does seem like a habit of his, no matter how close you are or how you long you've known each other, Punk has no problem ghosting people completely. At this point, other than his wife, does he have any friends from the industry left?

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #126 on: August 10, 2018, 02:59:21 PM »
I am an unabashed Dave Meltzer mark on this kind of topic. One of my favourite things is him swatting the absolute trash that hound him every day. Who you going to believe, the guy who wrote 50000 words on wrestling every week and meticulously filed it for anyone to be able to read, or the guy who sank the unsinkable ship?

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #127 on: August 10, 2018, 03:02:33 PM »
Death of WCW isn't bollocks, it's not totally accurate though. It's hard to blame any one business decision and Alvarez/RD do give them a lot of credit where it is due. It is entirely fair to say they had awful booking, suppressed potential stars, did mad money-losing things all the time (Road Wild was always free because Bischoff loved bikers so much! Some of the people on $150k a year for years and you never saw them!).

I do think a more sober book could be interesting now I think about it.

BeardFaceMan

  • Safely ensconced on top of the bathroom cabinet
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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #128 on: August 10, 2018, 03:04:01 PM »
When I saw The Bisch live he actually said he never fired anyone from WCW, so that can be used as a benchmark for how truthful he is. He said Steve Austin wasn't fired but iirc his contract ended and he was merely informed and certainly not by FedEx. Absolutely disputed the rumour WCW were trying to get Tyson too (Mike, not Kidd!)

He's claimed The Death of WCW is fiction, and personally accused, to my knowledge at least, Alvarez, Meltzer, RD Reynolds and even Jericho of lying. Live he said something like 'nobody even knows the true financial of WCW as only I had access to it.'

And I have a problem believing anything people still involved in the wrestling industry say because it means they are still in work mode, no matter how many time they say its a shoot. Bischoff still wants employment in the industry and wants fans to listen to him so I can't believe he'd be totally honest, or even really admit to any kind of mistake or shitty behaviour. Its only usually when the wreslters are long out the business you get the good stuff.

Death of WCW isn't bollocks, it's not totally accurate though. It's hard to blame any one business decision and Alvarez/RD do give them a lot of credit where it is due. It is entirely fair to say they had awful booking, suppressed potential stars, did mad money-losing things all the time (Road Wild was always free because Bischoff loved bikers so much! Some of the people on $150k a year for years and you never saw them!).

I do think a more sober book could be interesting now I think about it.

Yeah its probably being painted as total bollocks by Bischoff because it says negative things about him. Rather than point out what bits are false, which would mean admitting some of the stuff in there was true, far easier for him to say its all bollocks and not address any of it.

New Jack

  • Biggy laughed at my family deaths; won't say sorry
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #129 on: August 10, 2018, 03:05:42 PM »
^ that's my view exactly! As I said on the last page, I'm relishing that podcast festival end of the month when RD Reynolds debates WCW with Bischoff and I think Nash too.

It's going to be something, alright. But it doesn't seem like the actions of somebody who thinks his work is bollocks (and tbh, both him and Alvarez got into it for fun, and Bischoff is the one with a reputation to damage)

Doesn't prove anything either way but I do think about the TNA roster when Bisch, Hogan etc were there. It was the same damaging group colluding again!

up_the_hampipe

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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #130 on: August 10, 2018, 03:20:21 PM »
It doesnt help that Punk never really talks about things like this, once someone is out of his life thats it, he won't even talk about them so people are left to assume the worst about what went down and we only ever get one version of it. The thing is as the years go on we are getting lots of lots of stories of that one version, it does seem like a habit of his, no matter how close you are or how you long you've known each other, Punk has no problem ghosting people completely. At this point, other than his wife, does he have any friends from the industry left?

He's a private guy. I guess he doesn't want to drag things out publicly. I mean, he left WWE in January 2014 and waited until November to spill his guts on Colt's podcast, just because he felt he owed it to his many fans. To me, it looks better that he stays quiet about these things while a guy like Corey is tweeting like a jilted ex, or Jericho is proclaiming that Punk doesn't care about his friends in wrestling because he was clearly trying to get him on his podcast. As far as I'm aware, he still has friends in the business, even in WWE. I remember him saying not too long ago that he would only watch New Day segments because he loves Kofi and Big E.

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #131 on: August 10, 2018, 03:57:15 PM »
Looks like Nixon Newell got injured AGAIN at the Mae Young Classic tapings. That poor girl has the worst luck. (She was scheduled for last year's tournament before an ACL injury took her out.)


New Jack

  • Biggy laughed at my family deaths; won't say sorry
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #133 on: August 10, 2018, 06:44:29 PM »
The Apex Sexual Predator

Maybe it's time to silence those voices with a bit of Quetiapine, Randy.

He takes his first name so seriously!

Z

  • The movie, not the TV series, or the book
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #134 on: August 10, 2018, 10:40:19 PM »
Perhaps there was some collateral damage because he didn't know who to trust (it's an industry of backstabbing after all)
Punk's issues with trusting people predate his days wrestling imo.

I think Colt can be similarly thin skinned but I think he's self aware enough to know this case could be a really bad look to have, I'd have to assume he was under no doubt that Punk would stick by his word and Punk not doing so has left him in a really shit situation.



Part of me thinks Punk might somehow just not have the money to cover it, or his sources of income have dried up and he's concerned about the future, and this is a face saving move.

Moribunderast

  • What is your place in my glorification?
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #135 on: August 11, 2018, 03:09:50 AM »
I'm all caught up on the G1 in preparation for the finals. I didn't watch every match because there's also a film festival on in my city that I'm attending daily and I only have finite hours in a day but I have watched all the good stuff, I think. So many amazing matches. Omega/Ishii, Ibushi/Ishii, Ishii/Goto, Naito/Omega, Naito/Ibushi, Sanada/Ibushi, the list goes on. My favourite is still Ibushi/Ishii though I do understand people's reservations about it being too dangerous. I too am getting tired of all the head and neck bumps, especially from Naito. His best mate is literally in hospital as we speak due to a reckless style - it's so unnecessary, especially for guys like Naito and Hiromu who have all the charisma anybody could want.

Okada/Tanahashi was a hell of a B Block final. Those guys have the art of pacing down to an expert level. Every time I watch one of their matches I reach the 15 minute mark thinking "This is good but nothing amazing" and 10-15 minutes later I'm jumping and cheering and raising my arms like I'm drunk and watching my football team. I struggle to think of any two guys that have been so regularly amazing at building momentum towards a climactic ending.

Naito/Sabre and Omega/Ibushi tonight, then the finals tomorrow. My heart says Ibushi as he is now my favourite in a Hiromu-less world but I think Naito will win the block and then who knows? There's a part of me that would love Omega vs. Tanahashi for the Tokyo Dome but really I could live with any of the available options because everyone involved is tremendous.

Re: Randy Orton - nobody is surprised, right? The guy looks like a white-power prison rapist and was known to shit in women's handbags. Everything about him screams "I am a cunt." 

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #136 on: August 11, 2018, 08:22:36 AM »

Okada/Tanahashi was a hell of a B Block final. Those guys have the art of pacing down to an expert level. Every time I watch one of their matches I reach the 15 minute mark thinking "This is good but nothing amazing" and 10-15 minutes later I'm jumping and cheering and raising my arms like I'm drunk and watching my football team. I struggle to think of any two guys that have been so regularly amazing at building momentum towards a climactic ending.

Totally agree with this! These two can just draw you into their matches, through their masterful sense of pacing. That they manage to do this without the recklessness and the relative simplicity of their moves (Okada's dropkick!) shows what masters they are.


Moribunderast

  • What is your place in my glorification?
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #137 on: August 11, 2018, 08:40:46 AM »
Totally agree with this! These two can just draw you into their matches, through their masterful sense of pacing. That they manage to do this without the recklessness and the relative simplicity of their moves (Okada's dropkick!) shows what masters they are.

Yep. I love the crazy dudes like Ibushi and Hiromu and Omega but Tanahashi and Okada draw you in just as much, maybe more, while doing so much less. Tanahashi reversing the Rainmaker into a desperation Sling Blade had me popping more than any of Ibushi's death-defying balcony dives. Likewise, Okada, who'd failed to hit the Rainmaker all match, trying once more but pivoting last-moment to turn it into a SPINNING Rainmaker, which threw Tana just enough to allow Okada to hit the move - just brilliant in-ring storytelling.

New Jack

  • Biggy laughed at my family deaths; won't say sorry
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #138 on: August 11, 2018, 12:21:35 PM »
Orton's getting a new theme.

I put faeces in your bag
Get my knob out
To shake your hand
You understand
?

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #139 on: August 11, 2018, 12:49:24 PM »
ROH & NJPW sold out Madison Square Garden in 19 minutes.

I feel like we're the closest we've ever been (since the WWF v WCW days) to a major network picking up a non-WWE wrestling show. It just seems like that is the next natural step, especially if WWE does well when it moves to Fox next year. Some rich network exec might throw money at a wrestling company.

mikeyg27

  • That's one way of doing it.
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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #140 on: August 11, 2018, 01:18:01 PM »
I feel like we're the closest we've ever been (since the WWF v WCW days) to a major network picking up a non-WWE wrestling show. It just seems like that is the next natural step, especially if WWE does well when it moves to Fox next year. Some rich network exec might throw money at a wrestling company.

The problem with that is that none of these other wrestling companies are as network-friendly, in a standards and practices kind of way. The PG era in WWE has been a deliberate attempt to cultivate an image acceptable for this.

Now, a major cable network might be an option for pretty much anyone, and it probably wouldn't even cost that much. If Impact got a deal that was 10% of WWE's deal they would be pretty much set for the next five years. Ring of Honor is the most interesting player because they actually already have an evil moneybags owner, but one who has shown no inclination at actually investing in growing the company. Maybe this MSG event might change their mind.

BeardFaceMan

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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #141 on: August 11, 2018, 01:38:32 PM »
Im hoping the megadeal that WWE did with Fox will open peoples eyes to just how much money can be made from wrestling. And that someone somewhere (with very deep pockets) will think 'I could do that too'. Esepcially if they actually take a look at WWEs product these days, the only area theyve been industry leaders in is production values, the actual product is garbage. So if someone can make a wrestling tv show with those same production values so its not too much of a shock to people, I can easily see them competing with WWE.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #142 on: August 11, 2018, 06:20:36 PM »

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #143 on: August 11, 2018, 07:47:05 PM »
Yeah, well that's an important part of the issue. Perhaps there was some collateral damage because he didn't know who to trust (it's an industry of backstabbing after all), but I still think there's important details being left out of stories like this.
There was some stuff Punk said in Cabana's podcasts at the time which suggests there were people he didn't trust. I think Jericho was one alluded to when he mentioned that he didn't want to speak to anyone who might have an agenda or wanted something out of Punk so they could say something on their podcast about the whole thing.
Elsewhere I've read people joking how Vince and Hunter must be rubbing their hands with glee if the reason for Punk not paying is he's short on cash himself, so they could lure him back in at a bargain price. I still think if Punk went back to wrestling, he would more likely fuck off to Japan or something than work with WWE again, he's that bloody minded.

BeardFaceMan

  • Safely ensconced on top of the bathroom cabinet
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Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #144 on: August 11, 2018, 08:02:35 PM »
Yeah I cant ever see him going back to WWE, not when he was so succesful on the indies before and theyre becoming very lucrative now so I think if he did go back to wrestling I think he'd go down that road. Isnt he rumoured to be making an appearance at All In? If hes done with wrestling,  why is he still using the name CM Punk? I think he was introduced on The Talking Dead with his real name but thats about it. He always said he was never extravagant and was careful with his money and he has enough to last him (and with him being staright edge I can believe that) but that might have changed with the lawsuit. After his failed UFC venture it's going to be very interesting to see what his next move is.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #145 on: August 11, 2018, 09:22:32 PM »
he's hosting some reality show in the vein of Fear Factor and Survivor, he's doing okay for now.


Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #146 on: August 11, 2018, 11:04:16 PM »
he's hosting some reality show in the vein of Fear Factor and Survivor, he's doing okay for now.

What’s this? (Survivor and Fear Factor are very different shows btw)

I know he was a contestant on The Challenge (or one of its spin offs) a couple years back. Kinda felt that was beneath him.

New Jack

  • Biggy laughed at my family deaths; won't say sorry
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #147 on: August 11, 2018, 11:20:58 PM »
Punk is on Ultimate Beastmaster on Netflix I think it's called

-

WWE are investigating Orton's hot cock action.

WHAT'S ANDY NORTON DOING IN THE IMPACT ZONE? Smackdown as he will be fined at best?

up_the_hampipe

  • Crowd appeaser
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #148 on: August 11, 2018, 11:21:52 PM »
What’s this? (Survivor and Fear Factor are very different shows btw)

I know he was a contestant on The Challenge (or one of its spin offs) a couple years back. Kinda felt that was beneath him.

Ultimate Beastmaster on Netflix. Wade Barrett is one of the hosts too.

New Jack

  • Biggy laughed at my family deaths; won't say sorry
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #149 on: August 11, 2018, 11:25:48 PM »
Woah, PWInsider said Asuka walked out of Smackdown early cause she's not on Summerslam and isn't taking calls off WWE