Author Topic: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation  (Read 19790 times)

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #870 on: November 08, 2018, 05:43:41 PM »
NXT is overwrought and cynically conceived, I find it very hard to enjoy on any meaningful level.

New Jack

  • BANG! Lyrical blow to the jaw
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #871 on: November 08, 2018, 05:44:37 PM »
World of Sport is overwrought and cynically conceived, I find it very hard to enjoy on any meaningful level.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #872 on: November 08, 2018, 05:47:11 PM »

I mean, what SHOULD "real" wrestling fans be watching, almighty one?

Sumo

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #873 on: November 08, 2018, 05:48:51 PM »
NXT is overwrought and cynically conceived, I find it very hard to enjoy on any meaningful level.

How so? Great matches, wrestlers, characters and storytelling. The perfect wrestling show.

Utter Shit

  • Snotty Bumstead
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #874 on: November 08, 2018, 06:20:18 PM »
I don't really get the 'cynically conceived' criticism. I mean...wrestling is famously a carny thing, cynically rinsing idiots of their money is the reason it exists. I

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #875 on: November 08, 2018, 06:34:45 PM »
I don't really get the 'cynically conceived' criticism. I mean...wrestling is famously a carny thing, cynically rinsing idiots of their money is the reason it exists. I

It was created to siphon off indie talent, come on. It is nearly a bust as a true developmental.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #876 on: November 08, 2018, 06:37:01 PM »
How so? Great matches, wrestlers, characters and storytelling. The perfect wrestling show.

Fine if you think that, I find it a bit tryhard. Plus it's just a waiting room, so I can't build the same kind of relationship that I have to someone like Ishii or Tanahashi.

mikeyg27

  • That's one way of doing it.
    • M Gonta
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #877 on: November 08, 2018, 06:40:01 PM »
You could argue that it's cynical insomuch as they pretty much just bought the (smark-beloved) Ring of Honor roster, and they've also reached a point where they seem to be signing new guys just so other people can't have them (Keith Lee, Matt Riddle, Donovan Dijak Dominik Dijakovic, they just signed Punishment Martinez, FFS). That's not even considering its problems as far as its original brief for being developmental for main roster WWE.

But it's still the best wrestling show. It's pretty much RoH and PWG through a WWE filter, which is kind of my platonic ideal for a wrestling show.

New Jack

  • BANG! Lyrical blow to the jaw
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #878 on: November 08, 2018, 06:41:54 PM »
It was created to siphon off indie talent, come on. It is nearly a bust as a true developmental.

I'd argue the failure of it being a developmental territory is where the talent goes to, not NXT itself (time for another round of bashing McMahon booking!)

Here's a heel Cena I made anywho


Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #879 on: November 08, 2018, 06:43:24 PM »
It was created to siphon off indie talent, come on. It is nearly a bust as a true developmental.

And then puts those indie talents into fun storylines/feuds while still letting them put on fantastic matches. I mean, NXT is leaps and bounds above the current ROH product for example (I know ROH is not exactly "indie" in the traditional sense anymore because it's on TV, but that's where a lot of NXT talent gets their start).

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #880 on: November 08, 2018, 06:52:11 PM »
And then puts those indie talents into fun storylines/feuds while still letting them put on fantastic matches. I mean, NXT is leaps and bounds above the current ROH product for example (I know ROH is not exactly "indie" in the traditional sense anymore because it's on TV, but that's where a lot of NXT talent gets their start).

Am yet to see any evidence of this tbh.

Utter Shit

  • Snotty Bumstead
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #881 on: November 08, 2018, 06:56:51 PM »
Check out Velveteen Dream vs Tommy End and Tyler Bate vs Pete Dunne. Both sensational matches. Velveteen/End was a great storyline too.

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #882 on: November 08, 2018, 07:01:24 PM »
Am yet to see any evidence of this tbh.

Just a matter of taste then, isn't it? But doesn't mean those of us who enjoy it aren't "real" wrestling fans.

The feuds/stories that I've loved this year on NXT have included the whole Who Attacked Black? story, particularly the way it incorporated so many different people across the roster and played into different ongoing stories, and made an even bigger star out of Nikki Cross.

Coming before that, and leading into it, was the Gargano and Ciampa feud, which produced several incredible matches. And the story of how Gargano lost himself in his obsession with beating Ciampa was logical, well told booking.

Shayna v Kairi is such an old school nasty heel versus the lovable babyface feud, with both women playing their roles perfectly, and putting on fantastic matches too.

All the stuff going on with The Undisputed Era versus Ricochet, Dunne, War Raiders, especially how it included the Dunne v Ricochet "anything you can do I can do better" mini-feud within it.

That's just the more recent stuff, but there's the Dream v Ricochet feud, the Bianca Belair build-up, Ohno finally getting a story, etc.

NXT also had my fave match of the year, Gargano v Almas at Takeover New Orleans.


Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #883 on: November 08, 2018, 07:05:44 PM »
See with Kairi v Shayna I just see a lifetime talent working within herself against someone too green to work her.

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #884 on: November 08, 2018, 07:13:26 PM »
See with Kairi v Shayna I just see a lifetime talent working within herself against someone too green to work her.

I think Shayna is really underrated. She's improved massively over this past year and her heel work is really good. And working with Kairi is probably what has helped her develop so rapidly. Their match at the last Takeover was my favourite on that card, closely followed by Cole v Ricochet. Enjoyed their match at Evolution too, but the Takeover one was next level.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #885 on: November 08, 2018, 07:19:18 PM »
But it's true that Pop Idol wasn't for music fans, isn't it? It's not (necessarily) a criticism, Pop Idol was a light entertainment show rather than really aimed at music fans, in the same way Strictly isn't aimed at ballroom dancing fans. The format takes priority over the theme, hence the emphasis on dramatic chair-swapping in X Factor rather than the music.

I don't think the WWE/Pop Idol comparison is fair, a more accurate comparison would be with Pop Idol and the World of Sport wrestling show - that was clearly aimed at the early evening kids audience rather than wrestling fans. I don't think WWE is bad for that reason, it's aiming at the right people...the problem is it's shooting wildly off target.

As an aside I’m convinced an ITV “wrestling“ show that is laid out exactly like X-Factor would have worked. Have the series as tournament for the title with wrestlers (well known or otherwise) introducing themselves and “going on a journey“. Would have differentiated it from other wrestling and maybe held a mainstream audience who get into the personalities.

Could easily have run unofficial polls on Twitter and whatnot and book it towards who public are going for.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #886 on: November 08, 2018, 10:39:30 PM »
lol @ Observer

WWE CROWN JEWEL POLL RESULTS

Thumbs up 8 (04.3%)

Thumbs down 163 (88.6%)

In the middle 13 (07.1%)

The cagematch score amused me too.



It was created to siphon off indie talent, come on. It is nearly a bust as a true developmental.

I agree it's a bit of a cheat as a developmental - but it's a brilliant TV show.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #887 on: November 09, 2018, 12:57:51 AM »
Is there a Wargames coming up?

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #888 on: November 09, 2018, 04:04:24 AM »
Is there a Wargames coming up?

A week next Saturday.

up_the_hampipe

  • Crowd appeaser
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #889 on: November 09, 2018, 09:51:58 AM »
I'd love a main roster War Games, but with the Elimination Chamber and Vince's unease with WCW creations, it's unlikely.

New Jack

  • BANG! Lyrical blow to the jaw
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #890 on: November 09, 2018, 10:54:28 AM »
I'm still waiting for them to adopt the three way dance

also

Quote
The Raw overrun, a concept that started during the Monday Night Wars when Raw and Nitro were jockeying for any type of an advantage, is now history nearly 18 years after the conclusion of the wrestling war.

Starting this Monday for the show from Kansas City, Raw will end at 11 p.m. sharp and that will continue going forward.

That's good news! Now they just need to cut back another hour!
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 11:43:02 AM by New Jack »

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #891 on: November 09, 2018, 01:47:26 PM »
Went to a Smackdown house show last night so I could see The Man (and it was free). It was fucking awful but, my god, kids fucking worship these SUPERSTARS.  Screaming their little heads off. They well love AJ Styles which to me is mad, used to watch him do FWA and all that years ago.
Anyway. As shit as most of it was (R Truth was there for example), it was Jerry Lynn vs RVD compared to Slow Motion Matches and wrestlers whose gimmick is they eat kale or whatever shit I've paid to see at Indies recently.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 02:09:29 PM by Swoz_MK »

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #892 on: November 09, 2018, 03:52:19 PM »
I'd love a main roster War Games, but with the Elimination Chamber and Vince's unease with WCW creations, it's unlikely.

Also, I imagine on the main roster it'd just be a bunch of randoms thrown into the match with no real build. NXT books factions so well, particularly TUE, that the War Games match feels like a natural conclusion to months worth of storytelling.

I was worried when they first confirmed War Games would be back, as I thought it'd become like HIAC, where wrestlers are thrown into the gimmick match just because that's what PPV it is, rather than it making sense for the feud. But the way the TUE v Ricochet, Dunne, War Raiders story has been told for the best part of the year, it makes sense that it should culminate in War Games.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #893 on: November 09, 2018, 04:57:40 PM »
Went to a Smackdown house show last night so I could see The Man (and it was free). It was fucking awful but, my god, kids fucking worship these SUPERSTARS.  Screaming their little heads off. They well love AJ Styles which to me is mad, used to watch him do FWA and all that years ago.
Anyway. As shit as most of it was (R Truth was there for example), it was Jerry Lynn vs RVD compared to Slow Motion Matches and wrestlers whose gimmick is they eat kale or whatever shit I've paid to see at Indies recently.

R Truth is great.

mikeyg27

  • That's one way of doing it.
    • M Gonta
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #894 on: November 09, 2018, 05:02:43 PM »
I remember an interview Roman did a while ago (maybe with Sam Roberts?) where he said during the original Shield run Rollins and Ambrose had an idea to do an Elimination Chamber match with the Shield in the style of a War Games match, but it never came to pass.

it was Jerry Lynn vs RVD compared to Slow Motion Matches and wrestlers whose gimmick is they eat kale or whatever shit I've paid to see at Indies recently.

There are a lot of obnoxious vegan heels these days, aren't there?

Z

  • The movie, not the TV series, or the book
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #895 on: November 09, 2018, 05:05:08 PM »
Ron Killings is a dude who could've done way more than he did. At the same time he's been very steadily employed for 20 years solid, picked up very few injuries and seems to be in amazing condition for his age. Unless he's been really reckless with his money I'd have to imagine the guy is doing very nicely for himself on the whole.
He's good enough and useful enough of a talent that he'd have reasonable leverage each time contract negotiations roll around too.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #896 on: November 09, 2018, 05:13:57 PM »
R Truth is great.

I always chuckle when I remember that his name is literally Ron Killings, the most perfect name you could ever hope to have in the wrestling industry, and that WWE changed it out of spite/fear.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #897 on: November 09, 2018, 05:36:57 PM »
R Truth is great.

At rapping and dancing for 12 minutes. Doesn't Vince keep him around because he finds him hilarious? gave him that gameshow thing. Anyway, he is physically brilliant, but like the elder Runnels I suppose its easier on the conscience to keep him around than see a nice guy like him do a Koko B Ware on the indies.

Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #898 on: November 10, 2018, 11:44:50 PM »
Ricky Steamboat's real surname is Blood - better than wrestling name #2

Kelly Kelly's name is Barbie Blank - better than wrestling name #3

New Jack

  • BANG! Lyrical blow to the jaw
Re: Wrestling Thread: the New Generation
« Reply #899 on: November 10, 2018, 11:56:59 PM »
WHO IS THIS RUNNING IN TO ATTACK RIC FLAIR OH MY GOD IT CAN'T BE IT'S IT'S

IT'S DICK BLOOD