Jimmy Dore on Censorship

[MortSahlFan]

Spot-on. Coercion seems appealing until it's you or your group...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_LlMmL6Ylk

[Twed]

Refusing to give somebody a platform is not censorship.

[Petey Pate]

The InfoWars app is now the fourth most popular Apple store news app.

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/400807-infowars-app-shoots-up-rankings-after-alex-jones-crackdown

[MortSahlFan]

I think people should be allowed to make their own choices... One day, it's one group, and slowly, anyone who deviates from "official" propaganda will be completely shut down.

As the video said, Google, Facebook IS the new town square.. And there's no alternative. They are basically saying we're too dumb. Stand-up comedy has followed suit. And those who aren't PC, seem to play the other market - acting like a racist or a fascist.

[Hobo With A Shit Pun]

those who aren't PC, seem to play the other market - acting like a racist or a fascist.

There are a few points above that could be unpacked to find dubious contents - the most obvious, of course, being that Refusing to give somebody a platform is indeed  not censorship - but I am most irked by this statement: By definition, those who aren't PC must be derogatory towards the value of other people, quite likely by race, since if they *weren't* derogatory towards the value of other people, then they would in any case automatically be PC, regardless of whether they were self consciously adopting a PC agenda.

[sevendaughters]

i think people should be allowed to make their own choices says man irked by three companies making their own choices (and a fourth, twitter, also making their own not to ban).

i'd hate to see social media become an entirely orthodox virtuous space but fascism's history of co-opting the social spectacle of the town square whilst constructing no similar kinds of bourgeois space (exception: Gab) of its own means that for the protection of the vulnerable, companies, be they multinational private companies or the state, must act as a means of protecting itself and the greater amount of people it serves against that which would ultimately overturn its liberal existence. if that exposes the lie in 'free speech', if de-platforming is anti-liberal, then i am all for it regardless.

[Hobo With A Shit Pun]

Just to be clear, I am in favour de-Platforming.
Though I prefer the traditional phrase, "walking the plank".

[MortSahlFan]

If one man's opinion can take down a government (as some on twitter say), let it fall...
When the CIA, WSJ, NYT lies, it's a-ok (and a war as of a result).. In fact, many of them fired the staff that WAS correct.

[Dog Botherer]

Twitter has been banning and locking accounts of left wing and trans activists for engaging with right wingers for years now, with very little notice given to it. But yeah, lets cry about the guy who's a racists Sandy Hook denier.

[Twed]

Arguably it does stink that as usual only the center is catered for, with that in mind.

[BlodwynPig]

Arguably it does stink that as usual only the center is catered for, with that in mind.

The Rise of the Beige Man 2: Hush Puppies of Dissent.

[MortSahlFan]

Twitter has been banning and locking accounts of left wing and trans activists for engaging with right wingers for years now, with very little notice given to it. But yeah, lets cry about the guy who's a racists Sandy Hook denier.

I prefer no one getting banned.

[Dog Botherer]

I prefer no one getting banned.

I'd argue with you, but the evaporation of Milo Yabbadabbadoopoulus from the mainstream media since the all platform bans he's received is pretty much conclusive proof that no platforming is devastating against wannabe fascists.

Never gonna cry over shitlord scum getting banned, sorry mate.

[BeardFaceMan]

I prefer no one getting banned.

Do you live in a fictional utopia or do you want to dabble with living in the real world? Jones is still free to spew his hate speech, its just that there are companies that dont want to be associated with that for some mad reason. Which they are free to do. Jones is still free to peddle his act (such as it is) elsewhere,  no one is stopping him from creating his own platform.  Censorship and disagreeing with someones free speech and not wanting peoole to think you are like them or endorse them  are two totally different things. Only edgy 16 year olds think 'free speech' means being able to say whatever you want, to whoever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want.

ETA - if I were to come on post a load of racist and sexist comments, post nude pictures, ignore all other posters and just call them cunts, are you saying you wouldnt like to see me banned from the forum and I can contune what I'm doing because FREE SPEECH?

[ajsmith2]

I'd argue with you, but the evaporation of Milo Yabbadabbadoopoulus from the mainstream media since the all platform bans he's received is pretty much conclusive proof that no platforming is devastating against wannabe fascists.

I'd say that was more cause of the early 2017 paedo endorsing controversy (which was engineered from the right) which was primed and timed to strike him down just as he was completing his transition to being the go to mainstream acceptable face of the new alt-right/light whatever. His Twitter ban, which happened mid 2016 in the wake of him tacitly endorsing racism towards Leslie Jones, at the time only helped his cause and make him look like a martyr/badass.

My take on it is that some people on the new/alt right really didn't like the idea of their popular mainstream friendly gateway figurehead being a flamboyant gay man and decided it was time to decisively torPaedo his career the moment he was no longer of any use to them. Ultimately he's a victim of the very prejudices he claimed to be able to transcend.

[MortSahlFan]

Do you live in a fictional utopia or do you want to dabble with living in the real world? Jones is still free to spew his hate speech, its just that there are companies that dont want to be associated with that for some mad reason. Which they are free to do. Jones is still free to peddle his act (such as it is) elsewhere,  no one is stopping him from creating his own platform.  Censorship and disagreeing with someones free speech and not wanting peoole to think you are like them or endorse them  are two totally different things. Only edgy 16 year olds think 'free speech' means being able to say whatever you want, to whoever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want.

ETA - if I were to come on post a load of racist and sexist comments, post nude pictures, ignore all other posters and just call them cunts, are you saying you wouldnt like to see me banned from the forum and I can contune what I'm doing because FREE SPEECH?

The ignore feature works. Sometimes I think people want to bring up extremes to justify whatever. Some people look all day to be offended.

[MortSahlFan]

By the way, many peace groups have been banned as well.. I remember how people were shitting their pants begging the government to take their liberties with the "patriot" act.

[BeardFaceMan]

The ignore feature works. Sometimes I think people want to bring up extremes to justify whatever. Some people look all day to be offended.

No it doesnt, because some people dont want to be exposed to that on places like Twitter or Facebook which are populated by a lot children. You dont think Alex Jones is a purposefully provocative and offensive character (and he is playing a character), dealing with extremes and using extreme language? Its not hard for people to get mad at someone who says gun massacres never happened and all the victims were played by actors, you're saying only sensitive people who are looking to be offended would be offended by someone spouting that kind of gibberish?

So to clarify, you dont want to see anyone banned from anywhere ever for anything? You think people should be free to say whatever they like whever they like? If someone wanted to make a documentary about why the holocaust is a load of bollocks and wanted it broadcast on the BBC and the beeb said no, would that be censorship because theyre denying them a platform?

[MortSahlFan]

Keep in mind there's only one Facebook (2 billion users), or one YouTube.
Anyone who deviates from the conformist viewpoint could be threatened tomorrow, depending on which way the wind blows. It seems like everyone likes free speech just as long as it doesn't bother them.

[New Jack]

Tags: admin please lock this thread

[Paulie Walnuts]

remember when the progressive left were against private companies being able to choose who they served?

[BeardFaceMan]

Keep in mind there's only one Facebook (2 billion users), or one YouTube.
Anyone who deviates from the conformist viewpoint could be threatened tomorrow, depending on which way the wind blows. It seems like everyone likes free speech just as long as it doesn't bother them.

You mean like brave Alex Jones deviating from the conformist viewpoint that actual kids get killed in school shootings by saying they are events set up by the government with the kids played by actors? Fucks sake mate, get a grip. Well done for engaging with all the other points I made too.

Nothing stopping Alex Jones setting up his own facebook or youtube. Again, no one is stopping him from saying anything, he's still free to say what he likes. Free speech also means I'm free to tell you you're talking shit and if I ran a website I wouldn't want you there, that's not censorship, that's just having taste.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Keep in mind there's only one Facebook (2 billion users), or one YouTube.
Anyone who deviates from the conformist viewpoint could be threatened tomorrow, depending on which way the wind blows. It seems like everyone likes free speech just as long as it doesn't bother them.

There are other video hosting sites and other social media platforms.

Also, are people with similar views to Jones being banned or is it specifically Jones? Are far right people being banned from Youtube or Facebook (not saying Jones is far right).

[Fambo Number Mive]

remember when the progressive left were against private companies being able to choose who they served?

No, they just didn't want people to be refused service based on characteristics such as race or gender. Facebook and Youtube aren't banning Jones because he is white or middle aged.

[Paulie Walnuts]

No, they just didn't want people to be refused service based on characteristics such as race or gender.

Not sexuality or politics?

So you were against the various pubs/restaurants kicking out republicans?

[Fambo Number Mive]

Sexuality was another one, yes.

Politics - Jones isn't being kicked off for his politics as a whole but because of the content he is creating on there.

Restaurants kicking out Republican politicians - difficult one. I think it's ok for a restaurant to kick out a politician of whatever views if they directly disagree with their personal actions when in power. If they just want to kick them out because of their party, no.

[Paulie Walnuts]

and you're comfortable with the private sector deciding what should be published online?

[Fambo Number Mive]

Deciding what should be published on their platforms, yes. We can criticise the terms and conditions and other means they use to decide what should be published, and the decisions they make on what should be published, but private organisations do have a right to decide what should be published on their platforms.

[BeardFaceMan]

and you're comfortable with the private sector deciding what should be published online?

They're only deciding what appears on their site, not online as a whole, he's still free to post elsewhere. If I invite you for dinner to my house and I don't like the things you are saying I am well within my right to ask you to leave and say you cant come back, you can't turn around and say "Well what about free speech? I should be able to say what I like!" And indeed, you are still free to say what you like at many other houses across the country. That isn't censorship, it's just me saying I dont want to be associated with you.

[petercussing]

He should start his own facebook to show Cuckerberg what for! I think it would be largely the same but ALL THE TYPE WOULD BE VERY LARGE! Get on it Jones!